Follow up on restoring XP to other hardware, esp BillW50

[micky]

Follow up on restoring XP to other hardware, esp BillW50

INTRO:
Anyone following my hardware problems in another thread might wonder
why I don't just take my good harddrive, or even my backup files a
week or two older, and install them to another computer. Especially
since I have one t hat I'm using, a better one than is broken!

Good question.

Part of the reason is that I want a fullly functional computer when I
do this, software included, so that when I get in trouble, I'll be
able to get help, probably from you guys! My temp computer works fine
but it doesn't have the adrresses, settings, stored history, or much
of the software, that I normally have.

Part of the reason is that I never bought the memory for my even
better computer, which has only 256K iirc, at most 512.

And I could never choose between Acronis True Image Home with Plus
Pack and Paragon -- Adaptive Restore. Plus the second and maybe the
first comes with more than one piece of software.

THE IMPORTANT PART:

However, Amazon now has Acronis True Image Home Plus for 49 dollars,
free shipping, Surely that includes all the features of Plus Pack,
but at least the one I want is visible on the box image.

And Amazon has Paragon Backup & Recovery 10 Home, for 20 dollars, down
from 30 at some previous time, including I think when I looked at it
at the start of May. I have to try to verify if it has Adaptive
Restore in it. Well the picture of the box says "Restores on
Different Hardware" and on the webpage for v10 it alsso says so:
http://www.paragon-software.com/home/brh/
It's still being sold on the Paragon site for 30, but Amazon has
already marked it down. Actualy maybe Paragon has marked it down and
Amazon even more. This also has the manual downloadable, almost
always a good marketing tool. Harbor Freight does that too when there
is a manual.

I think version 11 is out now, but all the improvements probably
relate to 7, and the whole reason I want this is to use XP on my next
computer.

"Next Generation of Adaptive Restore
A powerful and unique technology that restores any version of Windows
(since Win2K) to completely different hardware by injecting the
required drivers crucial for a migration of this kind.
You can also recover the startup ability after an unsuccessful system
migration to a different hardware platform with 3-d party tool.
Smart Driver Injector: A powerful technology that makes the process of
adding new drivers (for P2P operations) smooth and easy."

This part of the manual is very intersting "Making system bootable on
different hardware (P2P Adjust OS)
Let’s assume you had to migrate to a new hardware platform. You
connected your system hard disk to the brand new PC and tried to start
up the operating system - you do know for sure now that this operation
had been doomed to failure from the very beginning. With our program
you can easily tackle this naughty problem."

But I still plan to use Acronis first.


I am very thrifty, but it's happened a dozen times that I delay buying
something and then buy two of them, slightly different, so it may turn
out that I get both of these. I don't think this trait of mine is
productive, but I don't fight it much. I'm still very thrify over
all.

It will still be a while before I can tell you if they work, but maybe
since both computers are in the basement now, next to each other, this
would be a good time to migrate.

 

[micky]

Follow up on restoring XP to other hardware, esp BillW50

INTRO:
Anyone following my hardware problems in another thread might wonder
why I don't just take my good harddrive, or even my backup files a
week or two older, and install them to another computer. Especially
since I have one t hat I'm using, a better one than is broken!

Good question.

Part of the reason is that I want a fullly functional computer when I
do this, software included, so that when I get in trouble, I'll be
able to get help, probably from you guys! My temp computer works fine
but it doesn't have the adrresses, settings, stored history, or much
of the software, that I normally have.

Part of the reason is that I never bought the memory for my even
better computer, which has only 256K iirc, at most 512.

And I could never choose between Acronis True Image Home with Plus
Pack and Paragon -- Adaptive Restore. Plus the second and maybe the
first comes with more than one piece of software.

THE IMPORTANT PART:

However, Amazon now has Acronis True Image Home Plus for 49 dollars,
free shipping, Surely that includes all the features of Plus Pack,
but at least the one I want is visible on the box image.

I didn't mean to give short shrift to ATIH.

Check out how to restrore to different hardtware, here:

http://kb.acronis.com/content/13671

 

[Mayayana]

| Check out how to restrore to different hardtware, here:
|
| http://kb.acronis.com/content/13671

They seem to be saying that it deals with SATA drivers
and hal.dll. Replacing hal.dll is slightly tricky, but it can be
done. I did it recently when I moved my disk image from
single-core CPU to dual-core CPU. I'm not sure about the
SATA drivers. Can't they just be installed before you make
a disk image?
According to the page you linked, their "Universal Restore"
doesn't do anything but the above. It's not automated,
painless disk image moving. you still need to deal with
motherboard drivers, etc. yourself. Also note, the Acronis
license is for 1 PC!! That means it's not really software
you're buying. It's a one-time treatment. That's very expensive
at $40.

I've been using BootIt for years and don't know of anything
I need that it can't do -- while still small enough to fit on
a floppy. It does partitioning, disk imaging, multi-booting,
boot.ini editing, on-disk file editing, etc. I think your choice
depends a lot on how polished and how simple you want it.
The more you want the software to do, the more you pay
and the more bloated it will be. If you can work with a simple
DOS GUI and manage your own SATA drivers then you don't
need things like Acronis.

 

[micky]

| Check out how to restrore to different hardtware, here:
|
| http://kb.acronis.com/content/13671

They seem to be saying that it deals with SATA drivers
and hal.dll. Replacing hal.dll is slightly tricky, but it can be
done. I did it recently when I moved my disk image from
single-core CPU to dual-core CPU.

You did it by hand? Expanded the disk image and changed that, or
after you loaded the disk image?

How would one do this?

I'm not sure about the
SATA drivers. Can't they just be installed before you make
a disk image?

I don't know and I actually didn't read the page more than a little
bit, figuring it would be easier to read when the package came.

Last week someone gave me an old, possibly broken sewing machine, and
the manual was i n the car but it was easier to download one than go
outside. I read most of it from a pdf file. Then I got the paper
manual, and though the words and pictures were the same it was so much
easier. For one thing, I could keep my fingers between pages and go
back to see what part of the machine it was talking aobut.

Okay, not really on topic, but I thought someone should know.

According to the page you linked, their "Universal Restore"
doesn't do anything but the above. It's not automated,
painless disk image moving. you still need to deal with
motherboard drivers, etc. yourself.

Maybe it's not automated, but at least there is a procedure to put in
the proper drivers for the new hardware. Prior to this progarm and
the other one, people have been telling me when you want to migrate to
another computer, you're just stuck and you have to first install
windows then install all your other software program by program.

Although I've been thinking about that, and think MS could make that
work too, easily for the user and without that much work for them.
Is tehre a reason they don't?

Also note, the Acronis
license is for 1 PC!! That means it's not really software
you're buying. It's a one-time treatment. That's very expensive
at $40.

I'll have to read about that. It's more than a one-time treatment
because the Plus function is just one of them -- the one dealt with at
the url above -- and the rest of it is backup and restore, and backup
would run over and over and over.

Plus I'll bet you can move it to another computer when you change or
upgrade.

I've been using BootIt for years and don't know of anything
I need that it can't do

It can't migrate an OS to different hardware, can it? Because when
this was discussed at length before, with BillW50 and others, the only
two programs cited that claimed to were Acronis and Paragon.

-- while still small enough to fit on
a floppy. It does partitioning, disk imaging, multi-booting,
boot.ini editing, on-disk file editing, etc. I think your choice
depends a lot on how polished and how simple you want it.
The more you want the software to do, the more you pay
and the more bloated it will be.

Maybe it's just me, but for the purpose of moving to a new computer, I
don't care how bloated it is. If it takes a long time to run, that's
okay.

If you can work with a simple
DOS GUI and manage your own SATA drivers then you don't
need things like Acronis.

I used DOS exclusively for years, but I don't have a DOS GUI that can
take a clone of one computer and make it run on a different computer
with a different mobo.

 

[Mayayana]

| >single-core CPU to dual-core CPU.
|
| You did it by hand? Expanded the disk image and changed that, or
| after you loaded the disk image?
|
| How would one do this?

There are different copies of hal.dll for different situations
and Windows versions. To switch from single to dual core CPU
one needs to replace the copy in use with the appropriate
version. That's done through an .INF file. Then one needs to
get Windows to see the change. Basically you're telling Windows
to install the required "driver". That can be done at least two
ways. See here:

http://www.jsware.net/blog/page1.php5#cpu

The change required is very simple. The tricky part is just
that XP was not designed with the foresight to anticipate
needing to change hal.dll. (It may be that Vista/7 isn't either.
While a full license entitles one to move Windows from one
PC to the next, Microsoft has long been trying to arrive at
a scenario where they can get paid per install rather than per
Windows purchase. They claim to license OEM Windows to the
motherboard. So providing any help with migration to a new
box runs counter to their scheme.)

|
| > I'm not sure about the
| >SATA drivers. Can't they just be installed before you make
| >a disk image?
|
| I don't know and I actually didn't read the page more than a little
| bit, figuring it would be easier to read when the package came.
|

I've seen directions for "slipstreaming" the drivers into a custom
XP install disk, but that seems like a lot of work. SATA drivers seem
to be specific to motherboards. So I guess if you're moving via
disk image you'd need to install the drivers for the new board last
thing before you create an image. (I don't know whether they can
create a conflict of any kind on the old PC.) Or, alternately, put
an IDE disk into the new box with an image on it, update that,
then copy it to a serial disk if desired.

From what I read at your link it sounds like they probably provide
something like a bootable CD to perform the hal.dll and SATA driver
fixes. Though they may not have an exhaustive collection of SATA
drivers. With motherboard drivers, video drivers, etc. you're still on
your own, but fortunately XP is quite good with Plug N' Play.

| Last week someone gave me an old, possibly broken sewing machine, and
| the manual was i n the car but it was easier to download one than go
| outside. I read most of it from a pdf file. Then I got the paper
| manual, and though the words and pictures were the same it was so much
| easier. For one thing, I could keep my fingers between pages and go
| back to see what part of the machine it was talking aobut.
|
| Okay, not really on topic, but I thought someone should know.
|

Indeed! PDFs were invented for printing compatibility. They've
become grossly overused, despite their poor onscreen usability,
because office people like the mirage of permanence and immutability.
Just as most office people send a 1 MB Word DOC rather than a 100
KB .txt file, simply because it looks more official. Officialness
is the lingua franca of white collar work.

| > I've been using BootIt for years and don't know of anything
| >I need that it can't do
|
| It can't migrate an OS to different hardware, can it? Because when
| this was discussed at length before, with BillW50 and others, the only
| two programs cited that claimed to were Acronis and Paragon.
|

As I understand it, the software you're thinking of buying
is a basic disk management program like any other, but with
extra hand-holding and conveniences.

To put it another way: To migrate you need to do the following:

* Create a disk image on the old PC.
* Partition the disk in the new PC.
* Copy your disk image over.

* OPTIONAL: Edit boot.ini. That may be required if the new
image is booting from a different partition. for instance, if
you image from the second partition and then copy that to
the first partition, Windows will bluescreen because it's
trying to boot an invalid partition.

* Install drivers for motherboard, video, audio, etc. in the new
PC.

BootIt takes care of the first 4 steps. Any disk management
software that can do disk imaging and partitioning will work.
Editing boot.ini may or may not be necessary and may or may
not be something included in disk imaging software. Nothing
takes care of the last step. You have to do that yourself. The
software you're thinking of buying seems to be a disk
management program with 2 or 3 conveniences added to deal
with common stumbling blocks.

So, yes, BootIt can migrate the OS. There are probably
even free, OSS options. But there are pros and cons to the
different options. I'm not meaning to talk you out of Acronis.
I've just noticed in the past that it's fairly expensive. There
tends to be a relationship between cost/popularity/marketing.
Often the best software is also the cheapest, but not the most
widely known and maybe not the easiest to use. I used to
use Drive Image and Partition Magic years ago. they were wildly
overpriced and split up the disk management functions into 3
or 4 separate programs needlessly. But there wasn't much else
available at the time. Then I found BootIt for $35, which does
more than all the Powerquest programs combined. Then Powerquest
sold out to Symantec, and they turned Drive Image into an
extremely bloated Windows XP backup program written in .Net. (!)
The reborn, reduced Drive Image was widely criticized by
reviewers as being of little use. But if you go into Staples today
you'll probably find Drive Image on sale. You probably won't find
BootIt. And you certainly won't find OSS options. Since most people
have no way to assess software, the marketing becomes a big
factor in what's "good".

 

[micky]

Thanks for the detailed reply. It will take me some time to read and
digest all this.