FBA never starts

[Sid]

Hi All,
I have done a lot of development with XPe, but this is my
first experience with such a problem. We had a PC with a
SBC motherboard and via processor, a few months back and
ran FBA and made a successful working image for the
machine. Now the client wants more of these machines with
Win XPe, but this time around the machine doesnot seem to
like FBA. It never starts. The machine does the POST and
bio seem to detect everything fine and then hangs on a
black sreeen.

This seems peculiar, but the machine seem to work fine
with an older image which ran on the previous prototype
pc, but I can not seem to make the FBA start on this new
one.

All that has changed since is we have had a little change
in the motherboards, but I ran the TAP and got the new
profile but to no avail. THis is very frustrating as
nothing seem to have worked. I tired running FBA on
another machine and transferred the COmpact Flash card,
but it ended up giving me Hardware error.

Has anyone seen anything as bizzare as this??I havent in
my last 6 month of experience with winXPe. Does anyone
have a work around?

I would appriciate any tips or pointers to why this is
happening and also some insight on how FBA interacts with
the PC.

Thanks all and have great holidays..
thanks
Sid

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Sid,

For first test phase XPe image is irrelevant.

You need to prepare partition to be bootable and to contain FS.
Also you need ntdlr.
and boot.ini with multi os choices and some time out.

If during the boot you can reach os choice screen the we can look into your
image.

CF should be formatted on target device.
You should try to use first XP utilities, if you have problems then you can
fall back on dos utilities and bootprep.

Regards,
Slobodan

 

[Sid]

Thanks Slobodan,
well here the situation, I have only one OS ona 512MB CF
card which is formatted using FDISK/Bootprep. The thing
which surprises the most is that the same image runs the
FBA ona different machine but not on this one..and this
machine will run any predeployed image (similar hardware).
Does this make any sense??
See if you can find a solution...
Thanks
sid

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Have you tried to use fdisk from target device?
Also have you tried my suggestion to see is you can reach point when ntldr
loads boot.ini?

Different BIOS-es can see different disk geometry for same disk device.

Regards,
Slobodan

 

[John A. Vorchak [eMVP]]

Sid,

I have seen this before, about a year ago, also on a via chipset/cpu board.
I found that there was a problem in the power management module in the bios
code that caused an apparent stall just after post. I had about lost it one
day and hit the escape (or possibly enter, can't remember) key on the
keyboard and the thing booted with no problem - turns out that the system
was simply asleep. I turned off all power management and it worked fine,
then dumped the bios code and brought a new module in that actually worked.
I would suggest looking for more updated bios code first and if that doesn't
work try disabling all power management for a test and then complain to the
bios dev...

John Vorchak [eMVP]

 

[Sid]

Well it happens precisely as you describe..
but one more peculiar thing i noticed...I had an old image
whihc i was abt to trash..this one was for another via
chipset. ..when i plugged it in..it worked on this
machine...as a prcuation..i cloned this card using a CF
card duper..but the duped card wont boot..where as the
origial booted..is this somehting u have noticed??
Let me know..i will surely look into the power saving mode
of the bios and see if tht makes a difference..i am abt to
lose it here..but i need to deliver a machine on monday
hence i need a solution..thanks for your time..
Sid

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Sid,

Have you been able to localize the problem?
Also can you tell if ntldr is loaded or the problem is somewhere in
BIOS/MBR/bootloader phase?

Also what part of John answer is true? If you hit some key like John said
are you able to boot?

You said that you have CF card that can boot on troubles device, right?
If this is true, then you probably don't have problems with BIOS.

What is the size and model of CF that works?
Also can you tell us same info for CF that does not work.

And you should describe procedures how and where did you do partitioning and
formatting of CF that does not work.


Regards,
Slobodan

 

[Sid]

Hi Slobodan
well i havent tried hitting the key..will do it once i
reach the office and make a new image..as far as the CF
cards are concerned..they are all identical..Sandisk 52MB
industrial grade. No difference..
Now..coming to your suggestion..how do i know if NTLDR is
loading or not..seems to me more like the system goes into
hybernation...and nevr comes out..but i dont understand
why it doesnt happen with certain images..almost all are
predeployed...anyway see if this help..i will write
another mail once i dcumnet my steps
thanks guys
sid

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Hi Sid,

I asked if you hit any key because you said that you have same symptoms that
John described. I never said that this will help.

XPe image that you have on your CF is irrelevant.

You need to make bootable MBR, and PBR.
You need to have at least ntdlr. included and boot.ini file with content.


[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="XPE1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="XPE2" /fastdetect


If you don't get multi OS selection screen that is provided by ntldr. then
you will know for certain that your image is probably not problematic.

Only trouble you could have is to prepare CF in proper way.


Regards,
Slobodan

 

[Guest]

well I have a single OS on a CF card. yes I do have NTLDR
and boot.ini...and no the screen never reaches the OS
selection...
Plus, the same card runs fine on another machine
(different hardware)..whihc eventually gives me errors
due to certain hardware not found..but the fact that it
works proves that the cards were formatted correctly..
Do you have any more suggestions before I stop trying??
thanks so far
sid

-----Original Message-----
Hi Sid,

I asked if you hit any key because you said that you have same symptoms that
John described. I never said that this will help.

XPe image that you have on your CF is irrelevant.

You need to make bootable MBR, and PBR.
You need to have at least ntdlr. included and boot.ini file with content.


[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1) \WINDOWS="XPE1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) \WINDOWS="XPE2" /fastdetect


If you don't get multi OS selection screen that is provided by ntldr. then
you will know for certain that your image is probably not problematic.

Only trouble you could have is to prepare CF in proper way.


Regards,
Slobodan

Hi Slobodan
well i havent tried hitting the key..will do it once i
reach the office and make a new image..as far as the CF
cards are concerned..they are all identical..Sandisk 52MB
industrial grade. No difference..
Now..coming to your suggestion..how do i know if NTLDR is
loading or not..seems to me more like the system goes into
hybernation...and nevr comes out..but i dont understand
why it doesnt happen with certain images..almost all are
predeployed...anyway see if this help..i will write
another mail once i dcumnet my steps
thanks guys
sid

troubles
device, right? you
do partitioning and saving
mode abt
to

.

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

If you have put boot.ini I gave you and you can't see OS choice then you can
have following problems that are not related to your XPe build?

How PC boots (approximate info).
1. BIOS search for disk that has valid boot signature. Search is in order
that is configured by you.
2. When found valid signature whole MBR sector (boot program) remains in
memory and it is executed.
3. Whole purpose of MBR is to use tables written in this sector to read and
execute PBR (partition boot record) sector.
4. PBR is first sector on your XPe partition and it purpose is to search
for, load and execute ntldr. (in case of partition made by XP or diskprep)
5. ntldr. loads boot.ini and interpret it content to see what OS should be
loaded. At this point you could be prompted to select your OS in case of
more than one OS.
6. Following steps are irrelevant for you.

Important is to know that: All loads go through BIOS int 13h handler.

There are many cases why you can't reach step 5.
1. BIOS problems with some types of media so int 13 has bad geometry as
parameters.
2. Values written during partitioning in MBR or PBR are not compatible with
your BIOS.


So when you boot your CF on different hardware this does not means that CF
is OK, just because OS booted.
It can work on 9 different platforms, and hang in some phase between 1-5 on
some special hardware.

You should partition, format, diskprep, your CF on troubled device.
All this operations are done trough int 13h call so if you do them on your
target device, there are best probabilities for good result.

I hope that this will help you to understand what is happening, and what to
test.

Regards,
Slobodan

well I have a single OS on a CF card. yes I do have NTLDR
and boot.ini...and no the screen never reaches the OS
selection...
Plus, the same card runs fine on another machine
(different hardware)..whihc eventually gives me errors
due to certain hardware not found..but the fact that it
works proves that the cards were formatted correctly..
Do you have any more suggestions before I stop trying??
thanks so far
sid

-----Original Message-----
Hi Sid,

I asked if you hit any key because you said that you have same symptoms that
John described. I never said that this will help.

XPe image that you have on your CF is irrelevant.

You need to make bootable MBR, and PBR.
You need to have at least ntdlr. included and boot.ini file with content.


[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1) \WINDOWS="XPE1" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) \WINDOWS="XPE2" /fastdetect


If you don't get multi OS selection screen that is provided by ntldr. then
you will know for certain that your image is probably not problematic.

Only trouble you could have is to prepare CF in proper way.


Regards,
Slobodan

Hi Slobodan
well i havent tried hitting the key..will do it once i
reach the office and make a new image..as far as the CF
cards are concerned..they are all identical..Sandisk 52MB
industrial grade. No difference..
Now..coming to your suggestion..how do i know if NTLDR is
loading or not..seems to me more like the system goes into
hybernation...and nevr comes out..but i dont understand
why it doesnt happen with certain images..almost all are
predeployed...anyway see if this help..i will write
another mail once i dcumnet my steps
thanks guys
sid


-----Original Message-----
Sid,

Have you been able to localize the problem?
Also can you tell if ntldr is loaded or the problem is
somewhere in
BIOS/MBR/bootloader phase?

Also what part of John answer is true? If you hit some
key like John said
are you able to boot?

You said that you have CF card that can boot on troubles
device, right?
If this is true, then you probably don't have problems
with BIOS.

What is the size and model of CF that works?
Also can you tell us same info for CF that does not work.

And you should describe procedures how and where did you
do partitioning and
formatting of CF that does not work.


Regards,
Slobodan



Well it happens precisely as you describe..
but one more peculiar thing i noticed...I had an old
image
whihc i was abt to trash..this one was for another via
chipset. ..when i plugged it in..it worked on this
machine...as a prcuation..i cloned this card using a CF
card duper..but the duped card wont boot..where as the
origial booted..is this somehting u have noticed??
Let me know..i will surely look into the power saving
mode
of the bios and see if tht makes a difference..i am abt
to
lose it here..but i need to deliver a machine on monday
hence i need a solution..thanks for your time..
Sid



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