Faulty shutdowns

N

Nil

Really? You want to place a bet on that?

Outlook Express Compacting Error: The folder is currently in
use by outlook or another application. This error may be
encountered while proceeding to close Outlook Express after
checking your email. It is known to effect systems running
Windows XP with Service Pack 3 installed. The email auto
compact problem is thought to be a bug. In the following
simple solution, I show you how to solve the problem.

http://www.lancelhoff.com/outlook-express-compacting-error/

OK, that's one out of four, meaning 3 out of four don't mention
anything about a service pack - and one of your "references" is your
own newsgroup post. As far as I can tell, all of the common issues with
OE 6 have been there all along and were not introduced with Service
Pack 3.

What gives that particular blogger any particular credibility?
 
P

philo 

OK, that's one out of four, meaning 3 out of four don't mention
anything about a service pack - and one of your "references" is your
own newsgroup post. As far as I can tell, all of the common issues with
OE 6 have been there all along and were not introduced with Service
Pack 3.

What gives that particular blogger any particular credibility?



To give things a little perspective here...many of my friends are
considerably behind the curve. One of my friends was still using Win2k
and dial up until last year. I told her I'd give her a free XP machine
but only if she switched to DSL. (The price was about the same.)

Even she...was not using Outlook Express...it was too obsolete for her.


My 95 year old uncle died about a year ago and I inherited his computer
and even he was not using Outlook Express!
 
N

Nil

To give things a little perspective here...many of my friends are
considerably behind the curve. One of my friends was still using
Win2k and dial up until last year. I told her I'd give her a free
XP machine but only if she switched to DSL. (The price was about
the same.)

Even she...was not using Outlook Express...it was too obsolete for
her.

My 95 year old uncle died about a year ago and I inherited his
computer and even he was not using Outlook Express!

I just set up a computer for a friend whose old XP computer died. He
had been using Outlook Express, which I set up for him several years
ago. The new computer runs Windows 8, so no more OE. I transferred all
his email to Thunderbird. I'll show him how it works when he picks it
up next week. I don't anticipate that he'll have any problem with it.
 
B

BillW50

OK, that's one out of four, meaning 3 out of four don't mention
anything about a service pack - and one of your "references" is your
own newsgroup post. As far as I can tell, all of the common issues with
OE 6 have been there all along and were not introduced with Service
Pack 3.

What gives that particular blogger any particular credibility?

I believe it was in some of the other links if you look really hard,
that one I listed was just really obvious. And I first learned about it
when SP3 first came out and everybody in the Outlook Express newsgroup
was flaming mad because SP3 broke OE6. It still pops up there now and then.

I don't know what happened to Microsoft programmers after SP2? But lots
of horrors starting with Vista. Then SP3 came out and some XP wouldn't
boot (AMD equipped) and other horrors. Many experts were advising to
wait to install SP3. It was just horrible. I can't think of a worse SP
rollout ever! Some of the problems they did fix, but OE compacting
wasn't one of them.
 
B

BillW50

To give things a little perspective here...many of my friends are
considerably behind the curve. One of my friends was still using Win2k
and dial up until last year. I told her I'd give her a free XP machine
but only if she switched to DSL. (The price was about the same.)

Even she...was not using Outlook Express...it was too obsolete for her.

My 95 year old uncle died about a year ago and I inherited his computer
and even he was not using Outlook Express!

So what are you saying Philo? People who don't use OE are computer
noobs? If so, why should that be a surprise? You can try to talk me away
from OE, but I am afraid I know far more about OE than you would in 10
lifetimes. It is the fastest newsgroup reader I have ever used.
Thunderbird is so damn slow, I hate it.

With OE6 and I recall a post explaining about something I wasn't
interested at the time. Then say months later somebody asks a question
and that old post had all of the answers, where do you start looking for
it again? With OE6 I can find it in seconds. It stores messages in
database format. Just perfect for super quick searches.

And what happens if I am looking for a reply to one of my posts? Under
OE6, it is super fast. First all replies to my posts are shown in red.
So any newsgroup changes to red, I have replies there. And if I open a
red newsgroup all I have to do is to hit CTRL-H and only replies to my
posts shows up. How super productive!

No other newsgroup reader is this productive. I can get things done 10
times faster than anything else. A person who hates OE just doesn't
understand how productive it is.
 
P

philo 

So what are you saying Philo? People who don't use OE are computer
noobs? If so, why should that be a surprise? You can try to talk me away
from OE, but I am afraid I know far more about OE than you would in 10
lifetimes. It is the fastest newsgroup reader I have ever used.
Thunderbird is so damn slow, I hate it.
X
You are so funny.

I just checked your headers and you are using Thunderbird 11. Current
version is 24.

You know nothing about Outlook Express because since you are a Win8 user
you should know that OE will not even install.

BTW: Back in the days of Win9x I did use OE and liked it...but I liked
OS/2 also and it's history.

Now, as to SP3.

I have literally worked on thousands of XP machines over the past ten
years and I only ran into one instance where SP3 caused a problem.
 
B

BillW50

I'm not 95 yet, but I still love Outlook Express. I don't see the Big
Problem. Sounds like some of you are getting a bit snobbish? :)

Yes, I've used Outlook. Yes, I've used some other newsreader programs like
XnNews or Xananews, or what have you. I don't see the big deal (at least
as far as text news is concerned), as long as you have OE-QuoteFix also
installed.

But then again, I'm also using XP, and proud of it. Y'all can have Windows
7, 8, 9, and 10 et al, ad infinitem. As in, "thanks, but no thanks".
Nothing I want or need there, plus I don't like what's been stripped out in
each succeeding version (in the interest of dumbing down the OS user
customability and the OS interface, and making the OS even more bloated).
Then again, I'm just a home user, and I've still got IE8 and Firefox on
here.

I totally agree with you. Even though I have many different versions of
Windows, XP is still my all time favorite one.
As for the alleged OE compaction problems with SP3, I don't have that issue
here. What DID happen with SP3 is they removed the automatic background
compaction option for OE, that's all.

I never heard it only effects some SP3 machines, but all. I am not sure,
but I suspect the problems pops up if it checks for email or newsgroups
while it is compacting. If that never happens, I don't think you will
ever see it. I see it all of the time on my SP3 machines. It is really
annoying.
 
B

BillW50

You are so funny.

I just checked your headers and you are using Thunderbird 11. Current
version is 24.

I never hide what reader I am using and my sig always shows what machine
and reader and OS I am running. And yes if I can't run OE then I run
Thunderbird. It still stinks, but other readers are far worse. And yes I
used every Thunderbird version, even 24. They can never get it right,
can they? Always under construction and it is never ready for prime
time. I am running Firefox v26 if that makes you feel any better. It is
supposed to run on the desktop and Metro. Doesn't run under Metro on my
Core2 machines, but does on my Atom Z670 machine.
You know nothing about Outlook Express because since you are a Win8 user
you should know that OE will not even install.

Ahh... but I still use XP machines and I love them. And I'll fire one up
if I need to find a post really fast or there are lots of new newsgroup
posts that I can fly through them very fast with OE6.
BTW: Back in the days of Win9x I did use OE and liked it...but I liked
OS/2 also and it's history.

I loved OS/2 v2.1 and OS/2 v3 beta. Then IBM came out with the release
version and changed all of the drivers without beta testing them. Half
of the beta testers couldn't even install the release version. I was one
of them. Then there was endless fixpaks and they never could get it
right. Some made OS/2 worse and some made it better. And my OS/2 Warp
crashed twice a week and everybody said it was just me, even IBM. Then
two years later IBM admitted there was a bug that if you pasted from
OS/2 to a DOS application it will make OS/2 totally unstable. Crap! I
did that all of the time. Then I decided I am not helping a bunch of
losers anymore. OS/2 could rot in hell as far as I am concern. And
apparently it did! said:
Now, as to SP3.

I have literally worked on thousands of XP machines over the past ten
years and I only ran into one instance where SP3 caused a problem.

Just visit the Outlook Express newsgroup sometime. Some really hate SP3.
And you probably have forgotten, but SP3 had the worst press about it
then any other SP before or after. Some AMD computers wouldn't boot
after installing and all kinds of other problems. Funny Microsoft comes
out with Vista and then XP SP3. What happened, all of the good Microsoft
programmers retired or what?

Then SP3 didn't have any extra features whatsoever! None! Nada! Nothing!
And it broke some older applications and drivers. Honestly I run both XP
SP2 and XP SP3 machines and I like SP2 machines better. I have installed
some applications that say it requires XP SP3 on a SP2 machine and they
always work just fine.
 
N

Nil

I believe it was in some of the other links if you look really
hard, that one I listed was just really obvious.

You "believe"?? How about checking to see if your belief matches
reality?
 
P

philo 

I never hide what reader I am using and my sig always shows what machine
and reader and OS I am running. And yes if I can't run OE then I run
Thunderbird. It still stinks, but other readers are far worse. And yes I
used every Thunderbird version, even 24. They can never get it right,
can they? Always under construction and it is never ready for prime
time. I am running Firefox v26 if that makes you feel any better. It is
supposed to run on the desktop and Metro. Doesn't run under Metro on my
Core2 machines, but does on my Atom Z670 machine.


If Thunderbird it slow for you it might be something to do with Win8. I
only have used the evaluation version. The only exposure I get to Win8
machines is installing "Classic Shell" so that frustrated users (young
and old) will have their old familiar-looking GUI.
Ahh... but I still use XP machines and I love them. And I'll fire one up
if I need to find a post really fast or there are lots of new newsgroup
posts that I can fly through them very fast with OE6.
Yep I still have a few XP installations but abandoned the use of Windows
about five years ago when I switched to Linus as my full time OS...
but I still work on XP machines almost daily.
I loved OS/2 v2.1 and OS/2 v3 beta. Then IBM came out with the release
version and changed all of the drivers without beta testing them. Half
of the beta testers couldn't even install the release version. I was one
of them. Then there was endless fixpaks and they never could get it
right. Some made OS/2 worse and some made it better. And my OS/2 Warp
crashed twice a week and everybody said it was just me, even IBM. Then
two years later IBM admitted there was a bug that if you pasted from
OS/2 to a DOS application it will make OS/2 totally unstable. Crap! I
did that all of the time. Then I decided I am not helping a bunch of
losers anymore. OS/2 could rot in hell as far as I am concern. And
apparently it did! <vbg>

I really liked OS/2 perhaps most for it's great fonts...but yep it sure
crashed! One bad entry in config.sys and the OS became non-bootable
until you restored a previous config.sys. One thing I did notice is that
on real IBM hardware it did much better. I still have a few removable
drives with OS/2 installations and even have ECS in a virtual machine.
Just visit the Outlook Express newsgroup sometime. Some really hate SP3.
And you probably have forgotten, but SP3 had the worst press about it
then any other SP before or after. Some AMD computers wouldn't boot
after installing and all kinds of other problems. Funny Microsoft comes
out with Vista and then XP SP3. What happened, all of the good Microsoft
programmers retired or what?

Just a few days ago I had an XP machine on the bench that would not update.
Took me a while to realize it was only at sp2. Once I brought it up to
sp3 I could perform the rest of the updates. If one is to use Windows I
recommend taking all possible security precautions.
 
B

BillW50

If Thunderbird it slow for you it might be something to do with Win8. I
only have used the evaluation version. The only exposure I get to Win8
machines is installing "Classic Shell" so that frustrated users (young
and old) will have their old familiar-looking GUI.

Oh no, it has nothing to do with Windows 8. It happens with any version
of Thunderbird, the newer the version the worse it gets. And it does
matter if you are running XP, 7, 8, or even Linux. It is still there. It
acts like Thunderbird does everything with one thread. I don't think
that is true, but it acts like it. It is far worse if your processor is
slow.
Yep I still have a few XP installations but abandoned the use of Windows
about five years ago when I switched to Linus as my full time OS...
but I still work on XP machines almost daily.

I wish I could say that. I have been wanting to like Linux since the
90's but it just doesn't do it for me. It is okay for me for web
browsing and email, but not much else. I never found Linux very good in
the multimedia department either. You always need a far more beefier
machine than Windows does.
I really liked OS/2 perhaps most for it's great fonts...but yep it sure
crashed! One bad entry in config.sys and the OS became non-bootable
until you restored a previous config.sys. One thing I did notice is that
on real IBM hardware it did much better. I still have a few removable
drives with OS/2 installations and even have ECS in a virtual machine.

Yeah I liked OS/2 fonts too, but there wasn't a lot of applications or
drivers for it. Yeah I was told about my constant lockup problems to buy
a real IBM machine before. Also I heard a lot of stories about OS/2
being really picky about memory. As some machines ran Windows just fine.
But OS/2 would crash and burn because it didn't like the memory for some
reason. I dunno, picky about timing or something.
Just a few days ago I had an XP machine on the bench that would not update.
Took me a while to realize it was only at sp2. Once I brought it up to
sp3 I could perform the rest of the updates. If one is to use Windows I
recommend taking all possible security precautions.

You know prior to 2008, I would totally agree with you. As I too
believed that updating was far better than not to. Sure I worked on
machines that when you updated them sometimes drivers and applications
would break. But I believed that was better than to have the computer
not all patched up.

Then I got into the big netbook craze. Many experts said they were not
going to be anything. As they are so underpowered and has a tiny screen
and all. But I thought I could make good use of these things and
millions of others could too.

Well the first one I got had 4GB of SSD soldered on the motherboard and
ran XP SP2. When SP3 came out, it won't fit. The SSD was too small. Sure
I could get around the problem by slipsteaming an install CD and go that
route, but most wont bother.

So I didn't bother and I figured I would be getting infected with
malware and I would be doing a lot of restores on that machine. After a
year of use, no malware or anything. So I thought I have dozens of
machines here, what would happen if I stopped updating about half of
them? So I did and nothing happened. So it has been 5 years for them and
6 years for that netbook.

So what am I supposed to think about security updates? As I don't get
malware whether or not I updated or not? I always used a stealth
firewall and an updated AV. Is that all you really need?
 
P

Paul

Oh no, it has nothing to do with Windows 8. It happens with any version
of Thunderbird, the newer the version the worse it gets. And it does
matter if you are running XP, 7, 8, or even Linux. It is still there. It
acts like Thunderbird does everything with one thread. I don't think
that is true, but it acts like it. It is far worse if your processor is
slow.

Take a look at the size of the files in your News folder, if
you find updating the news headers seems slow.

As time goes by, those files just get bigger and bigger.
I've got 288MB of files in there, and a good percentage of
those are being read when I update headers in Thunderbird.

Removing the files and starting from scratch, will speed things
up (a bit).

In Mail/Local Folders is the Sent file, and that one is pretty
big as well. But you don't want to delete that one. As it makes
a ready reference (almost like a Bookmarks file), when you
need something you found earlier and posted it in a message.

*******

One problem with news clients in general, is they have a couple of
options for fetching headers. A newer protocol and an older one.
One of those is slow on a typical server. I'm not up on the
details, but someone writing a client was claiming to "sniff"
the server and discover the capabilities. And this leads to using
the inefficient protocol.

While watching the latest Thunderbird, while running Windows 8,
I noticed a good deal of what looked like asynchronism. Like it
was trying to do too many things at once. I normally aim to
trim down the maximum number of connections the client can open
to the server, to try to control that. So that's another thing
you can play with, if you can find the setting for it.

The eternal-september server, I think the connection holding
time was dropped, so that as soon as a client finished doing
something, the connection would drop. The next time the
client goes to do something, it has to send the username and
password again. To catch that kind of behavior, you can use
a packet sniffer and watch what it's doing.

In fact, to lay the blame where it belongs, a lot of the analysis
can be done with a packet sniffer, and watching the Thunderbird
GUI at the same time.

*******

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Session_logging_for_mail/news

In the example there, there is a sending of CAPA to a mail
server. But I gather some of these news clients are also sending
that to an NNTP server. In an attempt to figure out what
protocols they support. Even if the server lies about
capabilities.

I agree that dumping a news client is very pragmatic - until
you run out of good clients to test. Then you're going to have
to fix something, to have a tool to work with.

And no, Thunderbird uses more than one thread. If you're quick, you
can have it update headers from two servers at the same time. You can
get some overlap of activities. It's not single threaded.

Paul
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

philo  <[email protected]> said:
On 01/17/2014 06:53 PM, BillW50 wrote: []
Ahh... but I still use XP machines and I love them. And I'll fire one up
if I need to find a post really fast or there are lots of new newsgroup
posts that I can fly through them very fast with OE6.

It's a matter of getting really familiar with a client; almost any
client, other than a real dog. If you're really familiar with a client,
you can do things very quickly. I can do some things with this old
Turnpike that I couldn't explain if I had to think about them. (Not just
clients - any software; until I was sevened at work, there was one
little editing job I did every couple of days using the text editor that
came with Xtree, that my fingers did almost without any brain
intervention.) FWIW, I've always thought OE (at least, with the addition
of OE-quotefix) was much maligned; I never used it myself, but have over
the years put at least one newbie onto it. (He's still - though will get
broadband on Monday! - on dialup, and finds OE on a 98SElite machine far
easier than the default mail client on a Vista one.)
[]
Just a few days ago I had an XP machine on the bench that would not update.
Took me a while to realize it was only at sp2. Once I brought it up to
sp3 I could perform the rest of the updates. If one is to use Windows I
recommend taking all possible security precautions.

Bill (W50, not In Co.): it isn't _just_ you, as you have pointed out
(other OE users for example, if they did/do certain things), but you
_do_ seem to have _more_ problems than many. For _most_ people I know,
SP3 - whether it added any actual features or not - made many things
work better, in lots of little ways. Like anything such, I'm sure it
broke _some_ things too - but I certainly made sure this machine (a
[large] netbook) had SP3 when I bought it.
I've (not for some years now, granted) installed some things on my
98SElite machine (which uses the 95 shell) that said they needed 98, and
they've worked fine (sometimes I've had to switch to the 98 shell just
while doing the install itself), so I know how you feel. But of the
various XP machines I've worked with, I don't think I've experienced any
where SP3 wasn't an improvement. Everyone's experiences differ, of
course (your netbook with the 4G being a case in point).
 
J

J. P. Gilliver (John)

In message <[email protected]>, BillW50 <[email protected]>
writes:
[]
I totally agree with you. Even though I have many different versions of
Windows, XP is still my all time favorite one.
[]
I still have a slight hankering for my 98SElite, but found too much
wouldn't work on it - and have found XP pretty stable. (I'd like to give
Soporific's "Windows 98 tenth anniversary edition" a good workout, but
don't have the time.)

Having said that, I'm finding 7 quite livable-with, to my surprise. (8 I
don't like most of the changes, though I don't have the strong hatred of
it that many seem to - but I've not really played with it to any
extent.) This (XP) is still my default machine, but I do have a 7 for
some things that need the speed (mainly Skype and TeamViewer so far).
Actually, Skype and videos - such as YouTube - used to be fine on this
machine when I first started using it (even with its 1G of memory); I've
obviously done something to it over the past few years (installed
something, made some tweak, whatever) that has made them very jerky
(even changing to 2G of memory made no difference - it hardly ever uses
over 1 anyway), but I CBA to go back and find what, though suggestions
would be welcome. (I don't _think_ it's Skype - and video encoding -
having moved on, as at one point I did try reverting to an earlier
version of Skype and it didn't get better again; besides, it even fails
after a few minutes with audio-only Skype. Which it didn't [even with
video Skype] when I first started using it. [FWIW TeamViewer is solid
though!]) (It could well be online-related: videos that play jerkily
through e. g. YouTube usually play fine if I download them and play them
again locally - but it isn't my line, which is still the speeds it's
always been.)
 
P

philo 

X

Oh no, it has nothing to do with Windows 8. It happens with any version
of Thunderbird, the newer the version the worse it gets. And it does
matter if you are running XP, 7, 8, or even Linux. It is still there. It
acts like Thunderbird does everything with one thread. I don't think
that is true, but it acts like it. It is far worse if your processor is
slow.

I believe you, but I've never experienced a major problem with
Thunderbird even on lower end Windows machines. I do have one newsgroup
that is slow loading though. I suppose I could check it with another
newsreader to see if it's a Thunderbird problem or something with the
newsgroup itself.

I wish I could say that. I have been wanting to like Linux since the
90's but it just doesn't do it for me. It is okay for me for web
browsing and email, but not much else. I never found Linux very good in
the multimedia department either. You always need a far more beefier
machine than Windows does.

I use Linux for just about everything but occasionally will use Windows
if I need to run a Win-app that will not run in WINE. That does not
happen too often though. As someone who has published a photography book
I will say that there is no decent Linux publishing application.

As to needed better H/W to run Linux I've found just the opposite.
Of course I use a bare-bones GUI. Usually Gnome 2 with no visual effects
of any type.


<snip>

e ECS in a virtual machine.
Yeah I liked OS/2 fonts too, but there wasn't a lot of applications or
drivers for it. Yeah I was told about my constant lockup problems to buy
a real IBM machine before. Also I heard a lot of stories about OS/2
being really picky about memory. As some machines ran Windows just fine.
But OS/2 would crash and burn because it didn't like the memory for some
reason. I dunno, picky about timing or something.

One day I will see if I can import the OS/2 fonts into my Linux install.
Then I will be happy.

Then I got into the big netbook craze. Many experts said they were not
going to be anything. As they are so underpowered and has a tiny screen
and all. But I thought I could make good use of these things and
millions of others could too.

Well the first one I got had 4GB of SSD soldered on the motherboard and
ran XP SP2. When SP3 came out, it won't fit. The SSD was too small. Sure
I could get around the problem by slipsteaming an install CD and go that
route, but most wont bother.

So I didn't bother and I figured I would be getting infected with
malware and I would be doing a lot of restores on that machine. After a
year of use, no malware or anything. So I thought I have dozens of
machines here, what would happen if I stopped updating about half of
them? So I did and nothing happened. So it has been 5 years for them and
6 years for that netbook.

So what am I supposed to think about security updates? As I don't get
malware whether or not I updated or not? I always used a stealth
firewall and an updated AV. Is that all you really need?



If you prefer XP at the SP2 level I guess that's fine with me...
whatever works.
 
B

BillW50

In philo typed:
I believe you, but I've never experienced a major problem with
Thunderbird even on lower end Windows machines. I do have one
newsgroup that is slow loading though. I suppose I could check it
with another newsreader to see if it's a Thunderbird problem or
something with the newsgroup itself.

Paul suggested to delete all of the newsgroup message stores. Mine is
only 138MB in size for this newsgroup server. I'll give that a shot. It
does appear to freeze up when it is checking for new messages in the
background. It is really annoying for me.

But even so, Thunderbird is still very clumsy when it comes to sorting
and organizing newsgroup messages. I forget all of the restrictions I
constantly run up against, but I think just viewing watched threads with
either read or unread posts, Thunderbird still can't do. It only will
list unread and that is all.

On the email side, I only use MAPI email servers and none POP3 mail
accounts. And I don't really have much complaints about Thunderbird with
email. It is just mostly dealing with newsgroups.
 
P

philo 

But even so, Thunderbird is still very clumsy when it comes to sorting
and organizing newsgroup messages. I forget all of the restrictions I
constantly run up against, but I think just viewing watched threads with
either read or unread posts, Thunderbird still can't do. It only will
list unread and that is all.

On the email side, I only use MAPI email servers and none POP3 mail
accounts. And I don't really have much complaints about Thunderbird with
email. It is just mostly dealing with newsgroups.



The only thing I liked about OE was that if I put someone in my killfile,
all their posts would be deleted.

Thunderbird did not have that feature and it originally did not even
have a way to delete the unwanted messages.

Thunderbird now has the ability to delete unwanted messages.


Other than that I don't see much difference between OE and TB
 
B

BillW50

The only thing I liked about OE was that if I put someone in my killfile,
all their posts would be deleted.

Thunderbird did not have that feature and it originally did not even
have a way to delete the unwanted messages.

Thunderbird now has the ability to delete unwanted messages.

Other than that I don't see much difference between OE and TB

How do you read newsgroup posts in TB? Within the message pane (F8)
perhaps? I rarely read that way on any reader. I much prefer reading
them in a new window. Under TB I will sometimes open in a new tab, but
not very often. I wonder if multiple windows is why TB can be incredibly
slow for me?

I deleted everything in my news server folder as Paul suggested.
Although I also lost rules, watched, tagged, and star flags. Got rules
back by copying a file from a backup. So I will play around with it and
see if the freezes still occur. So far nothing really seriously slow
yet. Although this machine is pretty speedy, I should be trying this on
one of my Dell Latitude ST with the super slow Atom Z670 processors.
Dang thing only uses 8 watts (plugging it into a watt meter) total to
run the whole machine. No wonder it has no air vents or fans.

Here is what OE6 does that no other newsgroup reader can't seem to do
including WLM. As you know, when a new topic gets started. It can easily
start branching out to many subtopics. Some topics can branch out to
hundreds of many subtopics. And each subtopic can continue to branch out
to many more subtopics. Are you following me so far?

And I don't care if a newsgroup readers tags one subtopic by important,
watched, starred, or whatever. The method for marking them isn't very
important, just as long as you can see just them and ignore the rest. I
also want to be able to see either read and unread, or just unread of
these. For now anyway.

Since watched usually can do this for most readers, I'll use this as an
example. Say I setup a rule that any of my posts automatically gets the
watched flag. Under OE6, only my posts are marked as watched and any
posts that branches out from that subtopic, also automatically gets
flagged as watched. OE6 also has a view that allows you to see only
replies to your posts (CTRL-H) which basically does the very same
without rules or marking anything. WLM does have this view too.

The above is a huge help when you don't have a lot of time to spend on
newsgroup messages. As you quickly can see any questions, comments,
better solutions or anything to your posts. TB and all other readers are
terrible in this department.

Although OE6 even takes this much further. Not only can you mark your
own posts, but anybody, topic, subtopic, or anything you can think of.
Thus using rules or flagging any post you are interested in manually,
everything that branches from that one post also automatically gets
marked as watched.

I tried everything I can think of with TB to do something like this. And
I can't get it to work as well as OE6 can. Sure I could mark my posts as
important and give it the watched flag, but it only marks my posts as
important but no branches from that one post. And TB watched flag is
applied to the whole dang thread, which could contain thousands of
subthreads. Not very good at filtering just the posts you are most
interested in.

I don't know how OE6 actually pulls this magical trick off so well. But
I can think of a way that is so simple to pull off with any reader. That
is every header of every post contains an unique reference number. And
anything that branches from that one post will also list that same
reference number.

So the reader builds this list of reference numbers you want to follow
and having any header that lists one of these references gets flagged
for special viewing. It is so simple. Yet only OE6 pulls this off.
 
P

philo 

On 01/18/2014 12:59 PM, BillW50 wrote:
X


<snipped but read>

d flag, but it only marks my posts as
important but no branches from that one post. And TB watched flag is
applied to the whole dang thread, which could contain thousands of
subthreads. Not very good at filtering just the posts you are most
interested in.

I don't know how OE6 actually pulls this magical trick off so well. But
I can think of a way that is so simple to pull off with any reader. That
is every header of every post contains an unique reference number. And
anything that branches from that one post will also list that same
reference number.

So the reader builds this list of reference numbers you want to follow
and having any header that lists one of these references gets flagged
for special viewing. It is so simple. Yet only OE6 pulls this off.



Bottom line:

you like OE6 best. That's 100% fine with me.
 

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