Fat32 not an option from Admin Tools - Disk Management?

[hupjack]

So I've got a nice big HD in an external USB2.0/Firewire Combo Case, and I
want to use it with BOTH my Mac and PC. The Mac is running the latest
10.3.x, and the PC is totally windows updated (XP SP2 + hotfixes).

To the best of my knowledge, the only format that will work cross platform
without any additional software is FAT32. Having plugged the drive into my
PC, I was shocked to see in Admin Tools - Disk Management, only one option
in the partition / format wizard. NTFS or NTFS!

Knowing full well that Microsoft hadn't eliminated support for FAT32, I
opened a command window and typed format /? and sure enough, right there was
FS: (file system switch)

So what's the deal! MS decided they wanted to make it difficult to format
drives in something other than NTFS? The Admin Tools is NOT the place to be
hiding options from power users! What is this big brother garbage?

OR.. (and this could be my bad here).... am I wrong and FAT32 normally is
an available option in the GUI? I mean during XP install from the Bootable
XP disk you get the choice of FAT32 or NTFS. Is Fat32 no longer an option
once you've made your system disk NTFS? Is FAT32 not an option because my
drive is on USB and not directly sitting on the IDE ribbon? Is the 120GB
drive too big for FAT32, and the Admin Tool knew something that the command
window didn't?

Thanks in advance,
Ethan

 

[Jef Norton]

"hupjack" <hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote in message
| So I've got a nice big HD in an external USB2.0/Firewire Combo Case, and I
| want to use it with BOTH my Mac and PC. The Mac is running the latest
| 10.3.x, and the PC is totally windows updated (XP SP2 + hotfixes).
|
| To the best of my knowledge, the only format that will work cross platform
| without any additional software is FAT32. Having plugged the drive into
my
| PC, I was shocked to see in Admin Tools - Disk Management, only one option
| in the partition / format wizard. NTFS or NTFS!
|
| Knowing full well that Microsoft hadn't eliminated support for FAT32, I
| opened a command window and typed format /? and sure enough, right there
was
| FS: (file system switch)
|
| So what's the deal! MS decided they wanted to make it difficult to format
| drives in something other than NTFS? The Admin Tools is NOT the place to
be
| hiding options from power users! What is this big brother garbage?
|
| OR.. (and this could be my bad here).... am I wrong and FAT32 normally
is
| an available option in the GUI? I mean during XP install from the
Bootable
| XP disk you get the choice of FAT32 or NTFS. Is Fat32 no longer an option
| once you've made your system disk NTFS? Is FAT32 not an option because my
| drive is on USB and not directly sitting on the IDE ribbon? Is the 120GB
| drive too big for FAT32, and the Admin Tool knew something that the
command
| window didn't?
|
| Thanks in advance,
| Ethan
|
|
|
| --
| To e-mail me, replace "_nospamtoday_" with the "@" symbol when replying to
| my address.
|
|

Hi Ethan -

You're right - Microsoft has made FAT32 a difficult option under Windows XP.

FAT32 is only supported on partitions up to 32GB under Windows XP. Windows
XP, however, will support a FAT32 partition in excess of 32GB, provided it
is formatted elsewhere such as DOS, Windows 98SE, Windows ME... though next
best thing to impossible with a DOS diskette, as there is no USB support
under DOS.

Jef

 

[Tod]

I had the same problem, had to use Western Digitals DOS utilities
to FAT32 format my WD 80GB hard drive.

Win XP will only format FAT32 up to 32GBs.
I've heard that Partition Magic will do what you want.

Or just download a Win Me bootdisk off the internet.
Or Hard drive manufacturers DOS utilities
You will need to set up your new hard drive in your computer by it's self.
then boot off bootdisk, partition and format.

Win 98SE (without the MS patch) had a problem partitioning
Western Digitals beyond 60GBs.

 

[Tod]

See if there is a simple patch for your Mac, to work with NTFS.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

So I've got a nice big HD in an external USB2.0/Firewire Combo Case,
and I want to use it with BOTH my Mac and PC. The Mac is running the
latest 10.3.x, and the PC is totally windows updated (XP SP2 + hotfixes).

To the best of my knowledge, the only format that will work cross
platform without any additional software is FAT32. Having plugged
the drive into my PC, I was shocked to see in Admin Tools - Disk
Management, only one option in the partition / format wizard. NTFS
or NTFS!
Knowing full well that Microsoft hadn't eliminated support for FAT32,
I opened a command window and typed format /? and sure enough, right
there was FS: (file system switch)

So what's the deal! MS decided they wanted to make it difficult to
format drives in something other than NTFS? The Admin Tools is NOT
the place to be hiding options from power users! What is this big
brother garbage?
OR.. (and this could be my bad here).... am I wrong and FAT32
normally is an available option in the GUI? I mean during XP install
from the Bootable XP disk you get the choice of FAT32 or NTFS. Is
Fat32 no longer an option once you've made your system disk NTFS? Is
FAT32 not an option because my drive is on USB and not directly
sitting on the IDE ribbon? Is the 120GB drive too big for FAT32, and
the Admin Tool knew something that the command window didn't?

A little self-research would have answered all of your questions.
FAT32 is still supported but Windows XP will only format up to 32GB
partitions with it.
In order to format a larger partition FAT32, you must use some other method.
One such method to be considered could be:
http://www.mager.org/mkdosfs/

You macintosh can do it, luckily you have OSX 10.3, so you shouldn't run
into any problems... (you didn't know your Macinstosh could format FAT32?!)
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20040724110933265

 

[Norm]

You could just yank the drive and install it as a slave in your pc, boot
from a dos disk and format.

"hupjack" <hupjack_nospamtoday_yahoo.com> wrote in message
So I've got a nice big HD in an external USB2.0/Firewire Combo Case, and I
want to use it with BOTH my Mac and PC. The Mac is running the latest
10.3.x, and the PC is totally windows updated (XP SP2 + hotfixes).

To the best of my knowledge, the only format that will work cross platform
without any additional software is FAT32. Having plugged the drive into my
PC, I was shocked to see in Admin Tools - Disk Management, only one option
in the partition / format wizard. NTFS or NTFS!

Knowing full well that Microsoft hadn't eliminated support for FAT32, I
opened a command window and typed format /? and sure enough, right there was
FS: (file system switch)

So what's the deal! MS decided they wanted to make it difficult to format
drives in something other than NTFS? The Admin Tools is NOT the place to be
hiding options from power users! What is this big brother garbage?

OR.. (and this could be my bad here).... am I wrong and FAT32 normally is
an available option in the GUI? I mean during XP install from the Bootable
XP disk you get the choice of FAT32 or NTFS. Is Fat32 no longer an option
once you've made your system disk NTFS? Is FAT32 not an option because my
drive is on USB and not directly sitting on the IDE ribbon? Is the 120GB
drive too big for FAT32, and the Admin Tool knew something that the command
window didn't?

Thanks in advance,
Ethan

 

[Ethan Lipman]

Thanks ya'all for the responses. I did do research, I just posted a
bit of a gripe at the same time. Shortly after posting, I found the
32GB Win2K/XP formatting limit in the knowledge base.

I also know that my Mac can format in Fat32, though it took me some
time to figure out that MS-Dos Format was identical to FAT32.

Frankly I find it absurd that my Mac can prepare the drive with the
most broadly used PC format more flexibly than my flagship windows XP
machine. It appears that MS made the decision to minimize Fat32
formatting support in WinXP. Why on earth should I have to resort to a
1.44 MB floppy disk, when I'm sitting here booted from the all powerful
Windows XP?!? Talk about lousy backwards compatibility. I feel I
shouldn't have to break out that windows 98 boot disk for something
like this. I've been very happy with Win XP, but this is absurd.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Thanks ya'all for the responses. I did do research, I just posted a
bit of a gripe at the same time. Shortly after posting, I found the
32GB Win2K/XP formatting limit in the knowledge base.

I also know that my Mac can format in Fat32, though it took me some
time to figure out that MS-Dos Format was identical to FAT32.

Frankly I find it absurd that my Mac can prepare the drive with the
most broadly used PC format more flexibly than my flagship windows XP
machine. It appears that MS made the decision to minimize Fat32
formatting support in WinXP. Why on earth should I have to resort to
a
1.44 MB floppy disk, when I'm sitting here booted from the all
powerful Windows XP?!? Talk about lousy backwards compatibility.
I feel I shouldn't have to break out that windows 98 boot disk for
something like this. I've been very happy with Win XP, but this is
absurd.

Format larger than 32GB FAT32 within Windows XP with this utility:
http://www.mager.org/mkdosfs/

 

[Tod]

I think it's wise for Microsoft to limit the FAT32 with Win XP.
NTFS is really a better formatting system then FAT32

 

[Bob Harris]

XP will refuse to format a partition larger than 32 Gig as FAT32, but it
will happily use such a partition, if you format it without XP.

If you have a MAC, can that do it?

Any PC running 98 or ME, with USB should be able to do it. However, I am
usure whether 98 or ME can handle a really large hard drive (> 127 Gig),
since XP (original) could not handle that.

Or, try a non-Microsoft solution: Partition Magic or similar partitioning
tool.

 

[BR549]

I think it's wise for Microsoft to limit the FAT32 with Win XP.
NTFS is really a better formatting system then FAT32


Not when you want to use the external disk on a Mac. There is no logical
reason for Microsoft to put any such limitation on what a user wants to do
with his disk.

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

I think it's wise for Microsoft to limit the FAT32 with Win XP.
NTFS is really a better formatting system then FAT32

Pity the maintenance options are so poor. I'd rather have recoverable
data that I can virus-scan on a 120G FAT32, than a crater where a 120G
NTFS volume used to be, thanks.

 

[Tod]

Microsoft did not force anyone to do anything.
Besides, why would Microsoft care about being more "Mac" compatible.
What is stopping Apple from adding NTFS support ?

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

Microsoft did not force anyone to do anything.

The uselessness of XP's formatter is coersive, and destructively so.

It doesn't refuse to format a volume > 32G as FAT32.

It starts to do so, blowing away whatever was there as format can be
expected to do, and carries on until 32G is reached. Then, and only
then, does it fall on its ass with a "too big" error.

I suppose the idea is that users will think "gee, FAT32 really sucks,
it fails even before it's done formatting". But it's purely a defect
in XP's formatter, and there's no excuse for that.

What is stopping Apple from adding NTFS support ?

1) NTFS is undocumented and proprietary

MS does not document the byte-level structure of NTFS, and warns that
it is subject to change at any time. This is understandable in a way,
because it is by enhancing NTFS that MS can ensure certain security
improvements can go all the way down to bedrock.

2) NTFS has been and will be subject to change

MS has not only changed NTFS when new versions of NTFS have come out,
but even when a new SP of the same OS version is released. And in
some cases, a newer NT version will automatically "upgrade" every NTFS
volume it sees; too bad if that invalidates an older NT installation
that has to run off that volume.

3) The usual prohibitions on reverse engineering apply

As NTFS is proprietary property of MS, Apple could get their ass sued
off for supporting it. Should Apple take that risk?

So how can Apple be expected to:
- legally figure out how to support NTFS?
- protect themselves against arbitrary changes to NTFS?
- handle support calls arising from NTFS up-versioned by NT?

The same applies to any OS or tools vendor that would offer NTFS
support, e.g. to maintain NTFS volumes, e.g. scan / clean malware,
data recovery, etc. This is why I see the responsabiliy for providing
a maintenance OS for NTFS to be MS's alone.

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[BBUNNY]

NTFS is not necessarily better, it is just that the cluster size limitations
of FAT32. A big HDD would have humongous cluster size. This
leads to slack loss.

 

[cquirke (MVP Win9x)]

NTFS is not necessarily better

Big question that, as summed up here...

http://cquirke.mvps.org/ntfs.htm

it is just that the cluster size limitations of FAT32.
A big HDD would have humongous cluster size.
This leads to slack loss.

This is true, but easily mitigated through intelligent partitioning
(that also brings other benefits).

The capacity loss is IMO not that big a deal, but the performance hit
of transferring a full cluster for every small file processed may be.

What small files are you likely to access often? Temp, TIF and bits
of system code, mostly. By locating those in a 4k-cluster FAT32 C: of
no more than 8G, you can have that benefit on a 200G HD.

The big joy with this is whenever you have to wait for C: to be
checked after a bad exit. Only 8G, rather than 200G, to check.

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