Expert help

[Mutu]

As you can probably tell from my quite indirect thread title, I'm in need of some advice.

Basically, after putting up with my hunk of junk PC for many years I've thought it's about time I buy a replacement. I will mostly be using this system for gaming and internet usage.

After realising that buying a ready made system is far too expensive for my max budget £800, I've decided to research the idea of building it myself.

But here are the two main problems. I've never built a PC before and it's therefore quite a daunting prospect. Secondly, there are so many products out there that I feel I'm often out of my depth when searching for parts.

This is where you guys come in

I was wondering if I could get a few pointers on the best manufacturers, products etc

As far as parts go, the only one I'm certain on so far is the GFX card: The ATI 2900 XT which seems an excellent piece of kit.

Elsewhere I'm rather lost and plagued with different questions. AMD or Intel being the prime one.

I'm swaying towards Intel at the moment. Not only because my last comp. was Intel so they're tried and trusted in that respect, but also because I've read some top reviews from the Foxconn P9657AA motherboard which seems a bargain.

Anyway, thats enough for now. Any help would be hugely appreciated


Edit: Forgot to mention. I already have a monitor and a good set of speakers so that helps a lot with the price.

 

[Me__2001]

building a pc really isn't difficult, its just a case of putting all the bits in the right place

first up i wouldn't get the ATI card, i'd go with a 8800 GTS 640MB version as its slightly better

gimme 5mins and i'll sort out a spec

Edit: ok here ya go

 

[Mutu]

Oh thanks, didn't expect that.

So you've opted for the 8800 GTS 640. From the reviews I've read it seems that the ATI seemd slightly better. I guess they're pretty similar by the looks of it.

One question with regards to the Gfx cards. Is there much difference between the different brands of geforce Gfx cards? I see an awful lot identical spec cards at differing prices.

I see you've gone Intel as apposed to ADM. May I ask why?

Again, thanks for the reply.

 

[Me__2001]

the graphics cards are pretty similar, its mainly personal preference and the nVidia drivers seem to be better than ATI's

at the end of the day all the 8800 GTS 640MB cards are all basically the same card, maybe with a different cooler, the main difference will be the package you get, some will come with games and have better warranty than others but the actual card performance is usually the same. obviously there are some versions that have been clocked higher than the standard speeds but you'll pay for that extra performance

the intel Core2Duo CPU's seem to be the better bet right now and AMD don't seem to have anything in the pipeline to match intel's new line-up, plus that motherboard will support the quad core CPU's if you decide to upgrade in the future

 

[Mutu]

Trying to refine lower the price a bit.

At the moment I'm trying to find a cheaper PSU, but obviously I don't want to buy a duff one that fries my machine.

I'm looking at the Antec TruePower Trio 650W PSU which is £20 cheaper. Worth cutting costs here?

 

[Mutu]

the graphics cards are pretty similar, its mainly personal preference and the nVidia drivers seem to be better than ATI's

at the end of the day all the 8800 GTS 640MB cards are all basically the same card, maybe with a different cooler, the main difference will be the package you get, some will come with games and have better warranty than others but the actual card performance is usually the same. obviously there are some versions that have been clocked higher than the standard speeds but you'll pay for that extra performance

Yeah, I've read bits about the ATI drivers. I'll keep that in mind when making the final decision.

the intel Core2Duo CPU's seem to be the better bet right now and AMD don't seem to have anything in the pipeline to match intel's new line-up, plus that motherboard will support the quad core CPU's if you decide to upgrade in the future

Ah cool, I didn't realise the motherboard had that option. I reckon I will go for the Intel option in this case on hearing that.

 

[Me__2001]

regarding the PSU, you could change it to this but it could be a problem if you go for a quad core CPU in the future

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-005-CS&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=

i'm sure one of the others will give their opinion as well so don't just go on what i've said

 

[Mutu]

Mmmm....thats a fair bit cheaper alright. I wondering if it's really worth cutting costs in this area since the consequences aren't worth thinking about.

 

[muckshifter]

You can save some money by opting for an AMD MB & CPU ... at the end of the day, you will not notice the "numbers game" one bit, byte or poke.

 

[Mutu]

So this is what I've ended up with. I forgot to include Vista and a mouse and keyboard so the price has gone up a bit

Your basket

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Edition DVD - OEM - 1Pk (66I-00788) £63.99
(£75.19)

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 Sound Card - OEM
(£16.44)

Microsoft Black Value Pack 2.0 - OEM (S82-00029)
(£15.26)

Leadtek GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail
(£229.11)

Samsung SpinPoint P SP2504C 250GB SATA-II 8MB Cache - OEM
(£38.76)

OCZ GameXStream 600w Silent SLI Ready ATX2 Power Supply
(£72.84)

GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400C4 800MHz Ultra Low Latency DDR2 Dual Channel Kit (GX22GB6400UDC)
(£72.84)

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 "LGA775 Conroe" 2.40GHz (1066FSB) - Retail
(£148.04)

Asus P5B (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
(£75.19)

Antec P180 Advanced Super Midi Tower Case - No PSU (Black)
(£81.06)

Samsung SH-S182D 18x18 DVD±RW ReWriter (Black) - OEM
(£19.96)


Total : £874.01

Tbh, thats probably a bit too expensive. I could probably do with losing some stuff here. But I'm struggling.

In terms of the casing, is such an expensive one required for the parts I'm putting in?

 

[Mutu]

So I switched the Intel with AMD and the price is now £782.42 inc VAT. Practically £100 off.

However how much have I sacrificed performance?

I picked the AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+ 2.40GHz and the Asus M2N-SLi Deluxe PCI-Express DDR2 motherboard.

 

[muckshifter]

Well, unless you are gonna sit there all day running bench mark tests, I'd say ... which "numbers game" do you wanna play first.


The difference in Intel v AMD hardware is actually not a concern ... there is very little difference in performance ... you will bung 32bit Windows on 64bit hardware so there really is no point in bench marks.

However, AMD perform 64bit and 32bit operations natively, and no emulation is required ... Intel can run in 32-bit compatibility mode, but it requires special emulation to do so, and performance ultimately suffers.


Here endeth one rendition of ... The Numbers Game ... another mucks exclusive.


Enjoy your PC

 

[Mutu]

Heh, I see.

Apart from that you reckon my systems ok?

Great forum btw, I wasn't expecting get such response so quickly. If do end up purchasing that PC I'll let you guys know anyway. I'll probably end up building it wrong anyway

Oh, I forgot to ask. My monitor is this one:

http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=100707

Will this work on this machine?

Honestly, thats it

 

[Alf]

im sure you can cut the cost on the case, right?
but then again if you going to put this much power into a aluminum case... i suppose it ought to be a good one

as for the monitor, if your ok with its performance then im sure it will suit your needs on this machine. Down the line you can replace the 17" with a 22" or larger, they aint as expensive as they used to be but they aint cheap either.

BTW, what kinda games do you play or plan on playing? not much sense in spending soo much money if you dont play the latest

 

[muckshifter]

Any monitor should work ... I would not consider anything less than a 19" though.


For some unexplained reason, Dell make good monitors, or, whoever makes the monitors for Dell make good monitors.

 

[V_R]

If you can wait until the 22 July Intel are slashing their prices. The E6600 should be around the £100 mark.

Heres what i'd pick if i were in your shoes with your budget........

As Budget is a concern, I went for the 320mb version of the 8800 as on that monitor at that resolution you wont notice much of a difference at all. But you can of course change it if you wish. (That would take it to £820 delivered with the 8800 GTS 640MB)

If you want to save a bit more you could get the Intel E6320 and overclock it. (If your comfortable doing that) It is the same chip, same L2 Cache, and will get to the same speed as the E6600 with ease.

If you wanted to save a bit more then go with XP rather than Vista, and save another 16 quid....

At the end of the day its your money and your choice. But the below spec is a great system.

 

[Mutu]

im sure you can cut the cost on the case, right?
but then again if you going to put this much power into a aluminum case... i suppose it ought to be a good one

as for the monitor, if your ok with its performance then im sure it will suit your needs on this machine. Down the line you can replace the 17" with a 22" or larger, they aint as expensive as they used to be but they aint cheap either.

BTW, what kinda games do you play or plan on playing? not much sense in spending soo much money if you dont play the latest

Yeah, the moniter will do for now. Games-wise? Well, I hope to be able to run Crysis So I guess I need all the stuff there.

If you can wait until the 22 July Intel are slashing their prices. The E6600 should be around the £100 mark.

Heres what i'd pick if i were in your shoes with your budget........

As Budget is a concern, I went for the 320mb version of the 8800 as on that monitor at that resolution you wont notice much of a difference at all. But you can of course change it if you wish. (That would take it to £820 delivered with the 8800 GTS 640MB)

If you want to save a bit more you could get the Intel E6320 and overclock it. (If your comfortable doing that) It is the same chip, same L2 Cache, and will get to the same speed as the E6600 with ease.

If you wanted to save a bit more then go with XP rather than Vista, and save another 16 quid....

At the end of the day its your money and your choice. But the below spec is a great system.

Thats interesting to hear about the prices dropping for sure.

I like the system you chose. I certainly hadn't considered the fact that my moniter was small therefore may not be able to take full advantage of the 8800 640. Although I do intend on increasing the size of the monitor in the not too distant future so maybe it's best to keep that.

Anyway, I've got the morning off work so I'm going to have another go at reducing this price

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated.

 

[V_R]

I like the system you chose. I certainly hadn't considered the fact that my moniter was small therefore may not be able to take full advantage of the 8800 640. Although I do intend on increasing the size of the monitor in the not too distant future so maybe it's best to keep that.

I was thinking more from a budget conscious point of view. But if your going to get a bigger monitor then the 640 will be the better option.

 

[Mutu]

Ok, so this is what I've gone for. Sorry for all the text, can't figure out how to link it all fancy like you guys

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5500+ 2.6 Ghz - £108

Asus M2N-SLi Deluxe PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard - £76

GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400C4 800MHz Ultra - £72

Leadtek GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB GDDR3 HDTV/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - £230 (ouch!)

Samsung SpinPoint P SP2504C 250GB SATA-II 8MB Cache - £38

LiteON DH-20A1P-45C 20x DVD±RW - £17

Lian-Li PC-7 PLUS Aluminium Midi-Tower Case - £58

OCZ StealthXStream 600w Silent SLI Ready ATX2 PSU - £61

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 Sound Card - £16

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit -£75

Microsoft Black Value Pack 2.0 - £15


£765 in all including postage. I'm pretty happy with that and unless you guys see any obvious flaws then I reckon I'll go ahead with that within the next week or so. I decided to go AMD, simply because it was cheaper that similar Intel processers. Even if there is a slight performance trade off, I can live with that.

The next problem is building the thing which I'm a complete novice at. Hopefully it won't be too difficult and there will be sufficient instructions in all the different packaging.

 

[floppybootstomp]

I like V_R's choice (apart from the Microsoft keyboard & mouse, I can't stand them meself, but it's personal preference, really, I favour Logitech).

Couple of things:

Budget wise, you may as well go for the 320Mb version of the video card, if you want to save money, there isn't that much difference in performance I'm told.

It really isn't worth using an Audigy soundcard over the onboard Asus sound, you won't be able to tell the difference. If you look at the two systems in my sig you'll notice I'm using an Audigy 2 in the 2nd system and to be honest it's a complete waste of time. I picked it up cheap, second hand though, so thought I'd try it.

The OEM Creative X-Fi series is well worth going for though, a big improvement on sound.

PS: It really isn't worth skimping on the PSU, I would strongly recommend the Corsair 620W PSU.

PPS: What's Windows' Black pack? Do you really need that? I'd say spend the extra on a better PSU