Epson vs Canon

[Miss Perspicacia Tick]

Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?

 

[Rob]

Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?

Yes you are dear.
Surely you wouldn't settle for just glossy when you could have
"glossier"? It's for those who feel absolutes won't do and would like
something stronger. Like Starbucks and the "grande" size which normal
people would call small but "small" sounds so, well, small.

 

[Bill Mathews]

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.

 

[Lola MacLean]

I believe the gloss optimizer is used in the Epson 2200 because that printer
uses pigment inks, which don't look glossy otherwise. That was a problem for
consumers that wanted glossy prints and the optimizer was offered to solve
it.
Lola MacLean

 

[bmoag]

If you are happy with what you are getting then there is nothing to worry
about. As noted the Epson pigment printers unaided do not achieve the high
gloss finish that many printers desire so the printer adds a glossy finish.
Canon printers and Canon glossy papers achieve beautiful glossy results. How
concerned to be about archival results for ink-based prints I suppose may be
a real concern if you are selling the prints but chemical based color prints
do not last forever and neither do their owners. Alas I have but ink-based
Canon and Epson printers: all three of us can only expect limited mortality.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

There is a reason for the gloss optimizer. Epson's R800 uses pigmented
inks. The advantage of pigmented inks, as of right now, is that they
are more permanent and less likely to fade than dye inks. That may
change over the next year or two as new inks and papers hit the market.
The problem with pigments is they tend to dry a bit more matte than most
would like, even on glossy papers. And areas with high ink coverage
even on glossy paper, will show the ink as flat. It looks even worse if
you look at the image at an angle, with light reflecting on it. The
gloss optimizer coats the ink areas to make them as glossy as the areas
that are not covered in ink. The two blacks are because for matte
papers, a denser black is needed and it is usually very matte. Using a
second black which is more glossy, but less dense, works better on
glossy papers.

What the best ink color combinations are to give highest accuracy is
often in debate, and it does depend upon the type of inks (dye versus
pigment) and the type of color management and drivers used. With
pigmented inks, particularly, since they are not fully transparent,
mixing certain ink colors may not provide the purity of color that a dye
ink might. Mixing yellow and magenta pigmented inks may not make as
pure a red as a pure red pigment. Same with blue, which is normally
made from cyan and magenta inks.

In the case of dye inks, getting a good range of greens, especially
deeper forest greens, which require cyan, magenta, yellow and black in
varying amounts are tricky to get, so some manufacturers use green.
Some commercial ink sets add orange.

At the end, what colors are in the set is not really important to the
end user. It's sausage making. What you should care about is how good
the output looks, what variety of papers work with the inks, how much it
costs per print, how fast the printer is, how reliable the printer is,
and, if it matters to you, how long the print is likely to last.

Art

 

[Hecate]

I believe the gloss optimizer is used in the Epson 2200 because that printer
uses pigment inks, which don't look glossy otherwise. That was a problem for
consumers that wanted glossy prints and the optimizer was offered to solve
it.
Lola MacLean

There is no gloss optimiser for the 2100/2200, only the R800.

 

[Al]

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.

This always causes me to have doubts about my Canon printer.

It seems as though Canon is mostly concerned with droplet size and
Epson has bigger droplets but more permanant ink.

I would like to see a visual demonstration of what really happens when
the prints get wet, as Epson describes on their radio ads.

 

[FredBillie]

<< From: (e-mail address removed) (Al)
Date: Sun, Jun 27, 2004 4:20 AM
Message-id: <[email protected]>

This doesn't directly address your question about the difference between the
Canon i9x series and the Epson R800, but the major difference between Canon
and Epson is that the latter has some models that produce excellent results
printing photos using archival pigment-based inks. Check out the Epson 2200.
Canon has nothing comparable, since all Canon consumer photo printers use
dye-based inks.

This always causes me to have doubts about my Canon printer.

It seems as though Canon is mostly concerned with droplet size and
Epson has bigger droplets but more permanant ink.

I would like to see a visual demonstration of what really happens when
the prints get wet, as Epson describes on their radio ads.I have a Canon S900 which prints great pictures. I used to have an Epson but
switched mainly because of speed concerns. I don't know about wet prints from
the larger Pigment ink Epson models but I can tell you that those from my new
Epson 4X6 PictureMate, seem to be impervious to moisture Test I made:

print picture. Immediately place under running water and rub with finger while
doing so. Nothing happened except that the paper, being wet, curled a little
when it dried. Very impressive indeed. Same results were obtained from someone
doing an online review of this printer. That is why I tried it also to see if
the reviewer was nuts.

 

[Colonel Blip]

Test I made: print picture. Immediately place under running water and rub
with finger while doing so. Nothing happened except that the paper, being
wet, curled a little <<

Interesting. FWIW, I use a Canon i950 and have performed the same test using
both Red River and Office Depot papers and have gotten the same results.

 

[Safetymom123]

Epson has the smallest ink droplet size of any printer and it truly is
waterproof. I have been given a print to run under water at the store.

 

[henry]

If you are happy with what you are getting then there is nothing to worry
about. As noted the Epson pigment printers unaided do not achieve the high
gloss finish that many printers desire so the printer adds a glossy finish.
Canon printers and Canon glossy papers achieve beautiful glossy results. How
concerned to be about archival results for ink-based prints I suppose may be
a real concern if you are selling the prints but chemical based color prints
do not last forever and neither do their owners. Alas I have but ink-based
Canon and Epson printers: all three of us can only expect limited mortality.

I have some for every body to take a look

Canon MultiPASS F60 Color Photo Printer/Copier/Scanner
http://www.tigerdirect.com $100
Functions: Printer, copier, and scanner
Print speed: 20 ppm black, 13 ppm color
Print resolution: 600 x 600 dpi (black), 2,400 x 1,200 dpi (color)
Nozzle configuration:?
4 Print cartridges: BCI-3eBk Black ink tank, BCI-3eC Cyan ink tank,
BCI-3eM Magenta ink tank, BCI-3eY Yellow ink tank

Canon i560 Desktop Photo Printer amazon $90
Print speed: Black: 22ppm Color: 15ppm Borderless 4" x 6" photo in 50 seconds
Print resolution: Up to 4800 by 1200 color dpi, 600 x 600 dpi black
Nozzles: Black: 320; Color: 512 x 2 (C, M), 256 (Y)
4 Print cartridges: BCI-6C Cyan ink tank, BCI-6M Magenta ink tank, BCI-6Y
Yellow ink tank, BCI-3eBk Black ink tank

Canon i850 Photo Printer amazon $99.99
Print speed: 22 ppm black, 14 ppm color
Print resolution: Up to 4800 by 1200 color dpi, 600 x 600 dpi black
Nozzle configuration: Black: 320 black; color: 512 x 2 (C, M), 256 (Y)
4 Print cartriges: Ink tanks: BCI-3eC (cyan), BCI-3eM (magenta), BCI-3eY
(yellow), BCI-3eBk (black)

Canon i860 Photo Printer amazon $119
Print speed: Black: 23 ppm (approximately 2.6 seconds per page); Color: 16
ppm(approximately 3.8 seconds per page); 4" x 6" Borderless Photo: in
approximately 50 seconds
Print resolution: Up to 4800 by 1200 color dpi, 600 x 600 dpi black
Nozzles: Black: 320; Color: 512 x 2 (C,M) and 256 x 2 (Y, Bk)
5 Print cartridges: BCI-6Bk Black ink tank, BCI-3eBk Black ink tank, BCI-6C
Cyan ink tank, BCI-6M Magenta ink tank, BCI-6Y Yellow ink tank

Canon i960 Photo Printer amazon $155
Print speed:?
Print resolution: Up to 4800 by 1200 color dpi
Nozzle configuration:?
6 Print cartridges: BCI-6Bk Black ink tank, BCI-6PC Photo Cyan ink tank, BCI-
6PM Photo Magenta ink tank, BCI-6C Cyan ink tank, BCI-6M Magenta ink tank,
BCI-6Y Yellow ink tank

Canon i9100 Photo Printer amazon $280
Print speed: 4 x 6-inch color photo: approximately 37 seconds (borderless);
8 x 10-inch color photo: approximately 1 minute (borderless)
Print resolution: Up to 4,800 by 1,200 dpi (color and black)
Nozzle configuration: 3,072 nozzles (512 x 6 colors)
6 Print cartriges: BCI-6Bk black ink tank, BCI-6C cyan ink tank, BCI-6M
magenta ink tank, BCI-6Y yellow ink tank, BCI-6PC Photo Cyan ink tank,
BCI-6PM Photo magenta ink tank

Canon i9900 Photo Printer amazon $479
Color photo print speed: 4 x 6 inch borderless photo in approximately
38 seconds
Print resolution: Up to 4800 x 2400 dpi. Resolution may vary based on
printer driver setting. Maximum resolution of 4800 x 1200 dpi used
at the bottom edge of the page
Nozzle configuration: 768 x 8 nozzles for color (C, M, Y, Bk, PC, PM, R, G)
8 Print cartridges: BCI-6C Cyan, BCI-6M Magenta, BCI-6Y Yellow,
BCI-6Bk Black, BCI-6PC Photo Cyan, BCI-6PM Photo Magenta, BCI-6R Red
and BCI-6G Green








Epson Stylus Photo R300 Inkjet Printer Amazon.com Price: $200
Print speed: 15 ppm draft mode; 37 seconds for 4 x 6" photo; 77 seconds
for 8 x 10" photo
Print resolution: Up to 5760 x 1440 optimized dpi
Nozzle configuration: 90 nozzles x 6 (CcMmYK)
6 Print cartridges


Epson Stylus Photo R800 Inkjet Printer Amazon.com Price: $400
Print speed: Up to 17 ppm; 5x7" photo in 45 seconds
Print resolution: Up to 5760 x 1440 optimized dpi (1.5pmd)
Nozzle configuration: 180 nozzles per cartridge
6 Print cartridges (Cyan, Magenta,Yellow, Photo Black or Matte Black, Red,
and Blue) Ink type: Epson UltraChrome Hi-Gloss Ink

Epson Stylus Photo 2200 Inkjet Printer Amazon.com Price: $600
Print speed: Up to ?
Print resolution: Up to 2880 x 1440 optimized dpi (1.5pmd)
Nozzle configuration: ?
7 Print cartridges


print resolution is the number of dot in one square in
who ever have number dot higher mean better picture ( but the nozzle is clog
up easier )
who ever have more Print cartridges mean better picture

who ever have more Nozzle configuration mean faster it can print

if you have money then stick with original ink ( ink type can be different
and it could damage your print head )
if not buy cheaper print and use refill cartridges
like me I have canon f60 I love it ( $100 ) 7 months

 

[Al]

Epson has the smallest ink droplet size of any printer and it truly is
waterproof. I have been given a print to run under water at the store.

Because of your advice I am looking at the Epson C84 to replace my
Canon i350.

One thing I don't know about the C84 is that they list two black ink
cartridge replacements - standard and high capacity. Do both black
cartridges need to be installed at the same time or is it an option of
one or the other?

 

[Hecate]

Because of your advice I am looking at the Epson C84 to replace my
Canon i350.

One thing I don't know about the C84 is that they list two black ink
cartridge replacements - standard and high capacity. Do both black
cartridges need to be installed at the same time or is it an option of
one or the other?

One or the other. It depends on how much printing you do.

 

[Safetymom123]

More nozzles are used in thermal printing so that when one set of nozzles is
cooling the other set is printing. Epson doesn't use heat so it doesn't
need more nozzles.

 

[Bob Headrick]

More nozzles are used in thermal printing so that when one set of nozzles is
cooling the other set is printing. Epson doesn't use heat so it doesn't
need more nozzles.

This is a truly bizarre suggestion.

The firing frequency of a printhead is typically limited by fluidics, the time
it takes to refill the firing chamber. You could design a print with one
nozzle per color, but it would taka a very long time since printing an inch at
1200 dpi would take 1200 passes of the printhead. A print with a 600 dpi swath
1" high (600 nozzles) would print a 1200 dpi swath in two passes of the print.
In general the more nozzles the faster printing will be, all else being equal.
Smaller drops will require more drop firings to cover a given area at a given
ink flux.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[Richard]

Has anyone had experience of both? I notice (after reading a review) that
the 'R' series also has 8 colours, but has lost the PC and PM in favour of
an extra black, red and *blue* - and a 'gloss optimiser". The i9950 (which I
have) still has PC and PM and the addition of red and *green*. Every review
I've read has rated the Canon over the Epson (this was the i990 vs the
R800). Does blue make a difference to green and what does the 'gloss
optimiser' do? After all, if you want gloss you simply use glossy media,
surely?! Or am I missing something?

Jumping in VERY late here I see that the old Canon versus Epson wars
are still going strong.

You say every review? Really? Did you read the fine print in these
reviews? Was print longevity taken in to account? That is a
rhetorical question since, if what you say were true, it could not
have been. I realize that many here do not really care if their
prints last that long and are willing to reprint etc. That is fine,
but seems very odd to me considering that it DOUBLES the cost of
printing and everyone here seems to hate the high costs of print
supplies. Others seem happy to spray their prints for added
longevity. I say whatever floats your boat! However, why not buy a
printer that rates at the top AND makes prints that your grandchildren
will be able to enjoy by showing their children how our generation
looked? I know I really enjoy our old family photos.

Check out the reviews of the R800 and i990 at
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/. They give the Epson R800 an overall score
of "96.6% Highly Recommended" and, while they give the Canon
i990/i9950 a Rating of "96 - A superb printer - highly recommended".
It seems like a pretty close match to me as have other reviews I have
read. However, they ALSO say:

"One problem which Canon must address is print fade. There have been
many posts on the photo-i forum and other site forums from people who
are having serious problems with this. Most of these can be put down
to not displaying or storing prints properly. I have had prints
created with my S900 and even the 8200 which have been on display for
a couple or more years and they still look fresh. I also have some
prints which have been pinned up in the kitchen which have faded badly
in less than two months. I know Canon have done a silent upgrade to
their media and have improved the coating etc. (the new stock is
watermarked on the back), I think they could be doing much more on
this. The reason I mention this, is because there are going to be many
serious photographers who will want to exhibit their work and
ultimately even sell their pictures. The i9950 will provide all the
quality that is necessary, but this needs to be backed up with stable
long lasting media."

I see some here who claim they have no problem with their photos
lasting. I also have seen 200+ pound women in spandex pants and thong
bathing suits so forgive me if I do not accept the judgement of the
average user. ;^) I do not recall any who have said their pictures
last more than a few years even when stored in an album. They
CERTAINLY will not last 50 to 70 or more years that the Epson will.
Enjoy your Canon printers, they do print beautifully, but so do Epson
and their pictures will last!