Epson "ink is low" ripoff

[Tim]

Just a heads up, I'm never going to use/buy another epson printer after this
experience.

Bought a C84 for doing only B&W text printing. Seemed to have a big enough
black cart and 3 colors instead of just one color so I wouldn't have to
replace all the colors when one ran out if ever. I've always used canon
printers in the past and these types of things were good to have. I am
using linux and had the printer set on "draft" mode to conserve ink. WRONG.

Epson doesn't measure the ink levels, the "estimate" how much ink is left
by how many pages are printed and shuts down the printer after this many
pages no matter how much ink is left. First the black "ran out" so I bought
a high capacity cart thinking this would help (extra $ and probably no more
ink they just "let" you print more pages with that one!) Now it won't print
because the color well are all "out of ink" and they are still totally full
as I've never printed any color pages! I can shake the wells and they are
just as full as new ones yet the printer won't work and this isn't a
software thing, it's in the printer itself. Why have separate carts for
color if the printer is going to claim they are all out at once? As soon as
this ink "runs out", this POS is going into the trash. They should be
ashamed of themselves for stealing money from people this way.

Anyway hope this helps someone from making the same mistake I did. I have
seen the "hacks" but they look like way to much work to save a $50
printer..

No, not at all true, just your opinion. You are correct when you say
that the cartridges do not directly measure the quantity of ink as
this mechanism would make the price prohibitive. The estimated usage
based on the number of pages AND THE MODE is correct. But why? Easy,
because running the ink heads dry will both cause damage and waste
considerable quantities of ink. You will not run out of all colours at
the same time so what happens to the other colours when you have to
force head clean after head clean in order to displace the air in the
one printing head? Some ink has to be left in the cartridge. Also are
you aware of the design of these cartridges? Do you think that they
are just a simple bucket? You would be very wrong, there are multiple
valves and chambers in these cartridges.

I'm sorry but yoour accusation that a major printer manufacturer sells
you large cartridges and then puts a software limitation that only
allows you to use half of the cartridge thus forcing you to buy more
is rediculous!
You would do what every other manufacturer does, namely make the
container look as big and full as possible (big but without making the
contents look small). The idea is to give the customer value not make
him feel ripped off.

If you are going to rant then please be better informed.

 

[Alvin.G]

I have an Epson stylus 440 -its basically for home use and the black color
cartridge
is expensive. After much despair because of the high cost of
cart.replacement,
I have found a way that is to take out the cartridge and reinsert them
again.
This will trick the printer and the printer will run as though it is new &
full capacity.
But I take care to change on the next " low level warning"

So if you like to try but change them after a reasonable amount of
printing.
**************

 

[JAD]

Ok since this retarded thread is still going.....I have used Epson
large media printers for over 6 years now. They run efficiently and
economically. I also have a 777i at home. The model number should tell
you how old that is. I NEVER install the ink monitor software, That's
as simple has it gets. If the newer printers have the monitor built
into the driver and not separate download/install, then there are ways
of disabling it, without interfering with the use. I never purchase
'brand name' cartridges. MSI remanufacturer is about 4 miles from me,
very lucky for me as the ink is cheap as hell. I have a newer cannon
s540. The tanks are small but VERY easy to refill, or again in my
case, I buy the remans for 6$ (USA) and refill when I don't want to
make the trip. You know that ALL inkjet printer manufacturers are out
to squeeze the most $ out of what they offer. Oil producers do it,
food stores do it, auto mechanics do it, city governments, federal,
etc. in taxes......as long as the public keeps putting up with it,
then it will go on. Why do people buy regular batteries? When there
are rechargeable that will last 5 times as long? Laziness, apathy,
like the majority handles most things.

 

[Robert Redelmeier]

the cartridges do not directly measure the quantity of
ink as this mechanism would make the price prohibitive.

Excuse me? For $30-40 retail per cartridge, mfrs could
certainly add a capacitance level measure. H3ll, for
that much money they could add a float system.

The estimated usage based on the number of pages AND THE
MODE is correct.

Only if you believe that evaporation is constant per page.
It obviously is not and this makes estimates very difficult.

You would be very wrong, there are multiple valves
and chambers in these cartridges.

I don't believe so. They often have baffling/sponges to
deal with the large waves generated by printhead movement.
I've never seen any valves.

The idea is to give the customer value not make him feel
ripped off.

No, the purpose is to make money. Having customers feel
ripped off is undesireable because they may buy elsewhere.

-- Robert

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

Fresh from an Iraqi prisoner interrogation (e-mail address removed) (Tim) smirked:

I'm sorry but yoour accusation that a major printer manufacturer sells
you large cartridges and then puts a software limitation that only
allows you to use half of the cartridge thus forcing you to buy more
is rediculous!

No, it's not, and you misspelled ridiculous.

Read some of the info at www.alotofthings.com and see for yourself.

 

[Noozer]

Fresh from an Iraqi prisoner interrogation (e-mail address removed) (Tim) smirked:

No, it's not, and you misspelled ridiculous.

So, you'd be happy if they started putting less ink into the cartridges and
selling them for the same price?

The amount of ink that they put in and set the cartridge to stop at ensures
that you don't pump air into the print head, etc.

Put it this way...

Car manufacturers say that your car should have 5 quarts of oil to run. You
can put less than 5 quarts and be safe. Is it a ripoff then that you have to
pay for 5 quarts of oil when you get an oil change?

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

So, you'd be happy if they started putting less ink into the cartridges and
selling them for the same price?

I switched to Canon printers when Epson started doing that.
Best move I've made on computers recently.

Car manufacturers say that your car should have 5 quarts of oil to run.

BBZZZTTTT!

Invalid analogy.

Would you buy a gallon of milk if you KNEW you could only get
3 quarts out of it when you used it?

 

[Stacey]

Ok since this retarded thread is still going.....I have used Epson
large media printers for over 6 years now. They run efficiently and
economically. I also have a 777i at home. The model number should tell
you how old that is. I NEVER install the ink monitor software, That's
as simple has it gets. If the newer printers have the monitor built
into the driver and not separate download/install, then there are ways
of disabling it, without interfering with the use.

It's built into the printer itself, it's not part of any software. The
printer will NOT work as long as this low ink light on the printer is
blinking. BTW I'm using linux without any epson drivers..


I never purchase

'brand name' cartridges. MSI remanufacturer is about 4 miles from me,
very lucky for me as the ink is cheap as hell. I have a newer cannon
s540. The tanks are small but VERY easy to refill, or again in my
case, I buy the remans for 6$ (USA) and refill when I don't want to
make the trip.

Because of these chips you can't refill them either without resetting the
chip.

 

[John C Danielson II]

Just a heads up, I'm never going to use/buy another epson printer after this
experience.

Bought a C84 for doing only B&W text printing. Seemed to have a big enough
black cart and 3 colors instead of just one color so I wouldn't have to
replace all the colors when one ran out if ever. I've always used canon
printers in the past and these types of things were good to have. I am
using linux and had the printer set on "draft" mode to conserve ink. WRONG.

Epson doesn't measure the ink levels, the "estimate" how much ink is left
by how many pages are printed and shuts down the printer after this many
pages no matter how much ink is left. First the black "ran out" so I bought
a high capacity cart thinking this would help (extra $ and probably no more
ink they just "let" you print more pages with that one!) Now it won't print
because the color well are all "out of ink" and they are still totally full
as I've never printed any color pages! I can shake the wells and they are
just as full as new ones yet the printer won't work and this isn't a
software thing, it's in the printer itself. Why have separate carts for
color if the printer is going to claim they are all out at once? As soon as
this ink "runs out", this POS is going into the trash. They should be
ashamed of themselves for stealing money from people this way.

Anyway hope this helps someone from making the same mistake I did. I have
seen the "hacks" but they look like way to much work to save a $50
printer..

Actually, Stacey, I have used a C84 here, a LOT. The problem with a
microjet printer is two things. First, its intended for photo work as
far as the C84, the tiniest ink bubles in picoliters are printed in its
slowest photo mode. AND, I have never had a false "very low ink" return.


What the epson actually does is to examine and MEASURE the inkflow
pressure out of cartridge, not "estimate" and because folks have
literally damaged the 2-3 picoliter type printers by running cartridges
dry, there is EXTRA INK in the carts to let you get the number of pages
rated for cartridge (note the 5% solid fill, please) reliably without
damaging the printer. The printer is powered up through thunderstorms
and printing durring them, and YES, it is on a UPS and does not burble
or false rule carts as empty when the number of rated pages for the size
and number of ink squirts at given minimum practical pressure have been
given.

My double cap black did last twice as many pages as my single cap.
Frankly, I LIKE business cards at very high res, print my own. I never
was able to calibrate a Lexmark or a Canon to what I needed for color
accuracy, and had to replace print heads on Canons. With the C84, the
print head is in the dang cartridge. I get my cartridges direct from
Epson, many times the stores have old ones.

For text, I use a small Laser printer, a Samsung. Brother also makes
good mono black and grayscale Lasers.

 

[Noozer]

Fresh from an Iraqi prisoner interrogation "Noozer" <[email protected]> smirked:

I switched to Canon printers when Epson started doing that.
Best move I've made on computers recently.


BBZZZTTTT!

Invalid analogy.

Would you buy a gallon of milk if you KNEW you could only get
3 quarts out of it when you used it?

If the carton said "provides x number of glasses" then you can't complain
when you get "x" number, even if half the carton is still full.

If an ink cartridge says "1000 sheets at 5%" then it should provide 1000
sheets at 5% coverage. Once it does that it can shut off/etc. even if it's
still half full. It met it's requirements.

Would you complain if you 100,000km tires lasted for 100,000kms and looked
great, but went flat? No... you got what you paid for.

 

[JAD]

oh i see... not the ink monitor, a part of the driver, but the
PRINTERS ink lite.

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

If an ink cartridge says "1000 sheets at 5%" then it should provide 1000
sheets at 5% coverage.

Have you ever HAD a printer that did as many pages as it's docs claimed??

Also, do you REALLY print anything at 5% coverage??

I don't.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]> Never anonymous

Also, do you REALLY print anything at 5% coverage??

I print a fair number of invoices, I'd bet that they're well under 5%
coverage.

 

[Noozer]

Fresh from an Iraqi prisoner interrogation "Noozer" <[email protected]> smirked:

Have you ever HAD a printer that did as many pages as it's docs claimed??

Also, do you REALLY print anything at 5% coverage??

So you're saying you can't do math?

1000 pages at 5% is 500 pages at 10%... Compare the ink by the rates amount
of use, not by the amount of ink in the cartridge. Then you *DO* have the
right to bitch if the ink doesn't produce as many pages as specified.

 

[Larc]

| If an ink cartridge says "1000 sheets at 5%" then it should provide 1000
| sheets at 5% coverage. Once it does that it can shut off/etc. even if it's
| still half full. It met it's requirements.

I doubt any court would agree with you on that. It would be a little
like killing off somebody who's already attained his life expectancy!

It's neither reasonable nor prudent for an active governing device to
prevent 100% use of any lawful product the customer has paid for and
owns *in toto*.

Larc



§§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§

 

[Ed]

I switched to Canon printers when Epson started doing that.
Best move I've made on computers recently.

Had an Epson (stylus 800?) , heads were always clogging, was slow to
start up and 50% of the time it would suck in 1-1/2 papers instead of
one. I switched back to HP about 2 years ago and couldn't be happier.
Ed

 

[Noozer]

| If an ink cartridge says "1000 sheets at 5%" then it should provide 1000
| sheets at 5% coverage. Once it does that it can shut off/etc. even if it's
| still half full. It met it's requirements.

I doubt any court would agree with you on that. It would be a little
like killing off somebody who's already attained his life expectancy!

It's neither reasonable nor prudent for an active governing device to
prevent 100% use of any lawful product the customer has paid for and
owns *in toto*.

When was the last time some sued Hellmann's because they could get the last
tablespoon of mayonnaise out of their squeeze bottle?

 

[George Macdonald]

If the carton said "provides x number of glasses" then you can't complain
when you get "x" number, even if half the carton is still full.

It doesn't though - just like the HP cartridges I buy it specifies a volume
of liquid.

If an ink cartridge says "1000 sheets at 5%" then it should provide 1000
sheets at 5% coverage. Once it does that it can shut off/etc. even if it's
still half full. It met it's requirements.

No printer mfr specifies such hard and fast limits on number of sheets...
except apparently Epson?? There's always a rider on such statements that
they are simply a guide to toner/ink consumption *rates*. It's quite clear
from this discussion that the majority believe they are buying a certain
*volume* of ink in a cartridge; if Epson wants to change that they are
apparently on an steep uphill slope.

Would you complain if you 100,000km tires lasted for 100,000kms and looked
great, but went flat? No... you got what you paid for.

Absurd analogy. In fact the way tire use really works, it's a good
comparison with ink cartridges as far how it should work. IOW if you drive
moderately, you can expect your tires to last longer than if you drive
hard.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

 

[Alvin.G]

Noozer was right when he mentioned of the 5% print area.
It was an international standards (something called FTEC-association,
sorry for the misspell name) adopted by all fascimile makers. as a test
guide
on product performance.
*************

 

[Dave C.]

When was the last time some sued Hellmann's because they could get the
last

tablespoon of mayonnaise out of their squeeze bottle?

What if hellman's designed the squeeze bottle so that it was impossible to
use more than half the mayonnaise? -Dave