Ducky mechanical keyboards

[Robin Bignall]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,

They've got proper switches underneath rather than a bit of squishy
rubber and a membrane.

and why the headphones?

dunno. A link would have helped

And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard?

Idiot gamers with more money than sense who think a keyboard with
mechanical switches is going to give them that 0.000001 second
advantage.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

I'm typing this on an ancient (1990s) Northgate Omnikey/Ultra
keyboard. IIRC it was $129 back then. I also own a few Avant Stellar
keyboards, IIRC $199 when they got bought out and the new owners quit
making the keyboards.

For those of us who spend most of our time at a keyboard and have
grown used to them it's well worth it.

They don't have frills like extra LEDs, but rather *VERY* good keys
(this keyboard is at least 15 years old, it has a slight tendency to
double-type on the number pad but otherwise it's as good as new. Every
key works smoothly and there's no sign of wear on any keys (the
letters are *NOT* printed on the keys, but embedded into them. They'll
never wear off.) Every key on the keyboard can be reassigned (and on
the Avant keyboards it can be reassigned to a whole sequence of keys.)
There are function keys on the left as well as the top. This is also
one of the older ones that has a full set of
arrows/home/end/pgup/pgdn/insert/delete in addition to the number pad.

 

[DK]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

It's like a real grand piano vs synthesizer, I guess.

To this day, I am still using my old trusty SGI Granite keyboards on
all computers. Only trouble is, PS/2 motherboards are going to be
extinct soon and PS/2<-->USB converters don't seem to work very
well. The one I go was Belkin based on good reviews on Amazon
and it basically sucks.

DK

 

[Flasherly]

I'm typing this on an ancient (1990s) Northgate Omnikey/Ultra
keyboard. IIRC it was $129 back then. I also own a few Avant Stellar
keyboards, IIRC $199 when they got bought out and the new owners quit
making the keyboards.

For those of us who spend most of our time at a keyboard and have
grown used to them it's well worth it.

They don't have frills like extra LEDs, but rather *VERY* good keys
(this keyboard is at least 15 years old, it has a slight tendency to
double-type on the number pad but otherwise it's as good as new. Every
key works smoothly and there's no sign of wear on any keys (the
letters are *NOT* printed on the keys, but embedded into them. They'll
never wear off.) Every key on the keyboard can be reassigned (and on
the Avant keyboards it can be reassigned to a whole sequence of keys.)
There are function keys on the left as well as the top. This is also
one of the older ones that has a full set of
arrows/home/end/pgup/pgdn/insert/delete in addition to the number pad.

I wore out mine, a Northgate. Did replace it, though. Northgate was
bought out, allied to FOCUS, so got one of those. Pretty much the
same thing. Next might be a gaming keyboard, or if that's what they
call them. Dunno. Maybe this FOCUS is supposed to last forever??

 

[Flasherly]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

There's different mechanics in keyboards, up to $200/US in gaming
circles. What you want, or something like it when money is no object.
Might try some of the "science grade" ones, too, designed for
operating at 200 below on the North Pole, and such;- until it sinks
due to global working, but they should do that, too.

The $300/US headphones are a lot easier to figure out. Just buy a
bunch of highend studio gear for recording and plug in your headphones
when not up to streaming a lot of AM radio quality inet audio computer
samples. I've got both, the ASUS soundcard made for ohmage matching
hi-end headphones, (Grados), although most of the time running the
ASUS into a mixer for the amp(s). (Grado's aren't actually quite as
good of late for confidence testing, tad bass-weighted, since adding a
set of ultralinear studio environment speakers and decent sub.)

 

[Paul]

Mechanical keyboards typically are designed to avoid or minimize key
ghosting. A cheapie keyboard scans a matrix to discover what keys are
depressed. If you mash down several keys, it's likely to not be able to
figure what keys are actually down. That's a problem for gamers that
want to be running, strafing, reloading and issuing squad commands all
at the same time.

I can't really vouch for any keyboard that claims to help with that
issue, but I know that is of concern.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-key_rollover

"However, if the user has two keys depressed and attempts to strike
a third key, the third keypress may create a "phantom key" by
shorting out the switch matrix."

That's why you add the diode per switch point. I think the idea is,
if the keyboard doesn't have the diodes, depressing A, B, and D
switches, fools the matrix encoder into thinking C is depressed as well.

http://hfr-rehost.net/www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/html/matrix_A_B_D.gif

When I built my own keyboard, I used a diode per switch point. I used
the tiny 1N914/1N4148 type (cheap and relatively small).

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

*******

And if you don't like the matrix scanning idea, someone makes
an encoder, with an input for each key. When each key is
handled separately, and not via a matrix scanning mechanism,
you don't need the diodes.

http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/images/KEUSB108.jpg

http://www.hagstromelectronics.com/products/KE_USB108detail.html#inputs

Paul

 

[Ting Hsu]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these.  Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones?  And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard?  I'm
obviously missing something significant.

I love mechanical keyboards, and once you've typed on one, you'll
never go back - I have a Noppoo Choc Mini at home and a Leopold
Tenkeyless at work (and plan on getting work to upgrade me to a CM
QuickFire TK).

But $270 is more expensive than normal, as the typical price is about
$100, and even Ducky will sell you a mechanical keyboard for $100 from
Amazon.

 

[Ting Hsu]

To this day, I am still using my old trusty SGI Granite keyboards on
all computers. Only trouble is, PS/2 motherboards are going to be
extinct soon and PS/2<-->USB converters don't seem to work very
well. The one I go was Belkin based on good reviews on Amazon
and it basically sucks.

DK

The link below is the PS/2 -> USB converter that you want. It's an
active converter, rather than a passive converter, which is the only
style that really works.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BSJFJS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A28128AMZ00PEQ

 

[Flasherly]

I love mechanical keyboards, and once you've typed on one, you'll
never go back - I have a Noppoo Choc Mini at home and a Leopold
Tenkeyless at work (and plan on getting work to upgrade me to a CM
QuickFire TK).

I've the same dimensions in a LOGITech K400 Mini, actually a 25%
smaller keypad than that Noppoo if discounting the LOGI's worthless
incorporated touchpad/mouse functionality. Glad, I suppose, I didn't
go smaller into a total one-palm keyboard setup sized for cell/smart
phone size territory. What I ended up with is a singular mouse, my
old IR LOGI mouse, beside the K400;- the touchpad can be used with
practice, such as a quick simple swipe to get the damn mouse icon out
of the way of scores, but anything more takes decided care to not
screwing up programs, lots more, than a dedicated mouse alone.

As you will go back if you can't get by without the RF functionality
(the LOGI is at an improved strength/range frequency from older RF
keyboards I've used). I have to be able to conveniently reach
parameters on a discrete unit for musical effects processing
arrangements (out through a corded USB from the parent's program
control interface), while holding a musical instrument for resuming
play.

At first it wasn't a Noppoo feel, safe to say, for more a matter of
discipline and focus over time for attaining workable solutions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is really no difference between a membrane and a keyswitch,
in the sense that both of them are switch closures and involve
completing an electrical circuit. Even a membrane keyboard, could
be designed into a non-matrix solution. And electrically, could
perform every bit as well as a mechanical switch version. The "feel"
would be different of course.

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wore out mine, a Northgate. Did replace it, though. Northgate was
bought out, allied to FOCUS, so got one of those. Pretty much the
same thing. Next might be a gaming keyboard, or if that's what they
call them. Dunno. Maybe this FOCUS is supposed to last forever??

I never knew of the focus. I don't think of mine as a gaming
keyboard, just a very good keyboard.

 

[Paul]

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

The matrix scanner already has a solution for bounce. it has a
debounce built into the scanning method. On my home-made keyboard,
the key closure must be present for three consecutive scanning
cycles, to be detected as a closure.

Paul

 

[Paul]

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

Maybe you're referring to this one ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckling_spring

If you look at the patent application diagram, it shows what looks
like an SPDT. Which would be idea for usage with an RS latch.
I seem to remember using something like that for a hobby project,
as a debouncer. Only problem with using that concept in a
keyboard, is the complexity (pin count) of the electronics
needed to interface to it. Like, 110 keys times 2 pins,
or about 220 input signals. If you did that with 279's, it
would take a pile of them (110/4 = 28). The keyboard encoder
ends up being either a significantly large single chip,
or a board full of "jelly beans".

http://www.futurlec.com/Datasheet/74ls/74LS279.pdf

Such a circuit, helps debounce. There's no "rattling" on
Q or Qbar, just a nice clean digital signal. But it takes
an SPDT. Or two regular pushbuttons, if you don't have an
SPDT handy.

(Debounced digital control, for sensitive circuits)

http://what-when-how.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/tmp1877_thumb2.png

The debounce on a matrix encoder, is definitely a cheaper
way to do it. It's OK for a single switch to bounce, as long
as the bounce interval is relatively short.

Paul

 

[Flasherly]

I never knew of the focus. I don't think of mine as a gaming
keyboard, just a very good keyboard.

Neither did I. Wasn't very happy when my Omnikey Northgate gave it
up, but that was ages ago, when and during an interim FOCUS bought
Dell>Northgate/Gateway and made the same keyboard (essentially - it
does have an added trackball built into the spacebar, pure BS gimmick
quality, nowhere near a Logitech marble mouse, but the key mechanism
are the same high quality). One tough, rugged keyboard. Now - hell,
you can't even hardly find a FOCUS FK 7200 / USB model listed on a
google search. It's a history piece, one long gone daddy.

What I meant is the only things worthy of that sort of quality
presently of course are gaming niche keyboards. Might even be better.
Only problem is, if anything, I'm more gentle with keyboards these
days. Overbuilt keyboards like the early IBM models, and these,
imaginably might dig one out of the ground 200 years from now and it
would still work.

 

[Astropher]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

I am writing this on a Ducky. They are very nice keyboards to type on,
largely because of the feel of the mechanical switches. Mine cost
$129. I can't imagine paying $270 for one.

If your work involves a lot of typing then a mechanical keyboard is a
worthwhile investment, but $270 is over the top.

 

[Don Phillipson]

No, the mechanical ones have *TWO* switches, one to make, one to
break. This eliminates the problem of bounce.

The mechanical action also gives a touch typist a clear indication
that they actually typed a key. I'm definitely more accurate on a
mechanical than on a membrane keyboard.

Same here. Keyboards are (like MS-DOS) a classic example of
"suboptimization" in which the best is known, but the cheaper second-
best drives it off the market. The AT keyboard layout (F-keys in two
columns at the left, balancing the numerical keypad on the right) is
the best for touch typists. The mechanical keyboard is better than
the "chiclet" keyboard for all typists (thus IBM/Lenovo prefers it
albeit Gateway does not) and the Northgate Omnikey was the
most popular mechanical keyboard. But vendors discarded the
AT layout and Northgate went bankrupt although a million users were
glad to pay $75-100 for a KB rather than $25: but the cheaper
rubbish not merely dominated the supply chain, it became 99 per
cent of the supply chain. The best mechanical AT keyboards,
the commonest type in 1990, thus became a rare "custom" product
available only at $200.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

The AT keyboard layout (F-keys in two
columns at the left, balancing the numerical keypad on the right)

That's the XT layout, actually.

 

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

I just got a routine email from a supplier offering these. Ok, I can
see fancy LEDs on the keys, but I don't understand the 'mechanical' bit,
and why the headphones? And who would pay $270 for a USB keyboard? I'm
obviously missing something significant.

Using IBM Model M keyboard here. Still available via Unicomp!

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

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[Robin Bignall]

I am writing this on a Ducky. They are very nice keyboards to type on,
largely because of the feel of the mechanical switches. Mine cost
$129. I can't imagine paying $270 for one.

The Ducky DK9008 is 150 UK pounds in England -- approx $225? So my
arithmetic ain't too good!

If your work involves a lot of typing then a mechanical keyboard is a
worthwhile investment, but $270 is over the top.

I've successfully cleared my desk of wires, and notice these have a USB
connection. Does nobody make a wireless version?