Dual Boot-clarification

[Guest]

I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the following
please.................

1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is installed,
if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows Vista
to create it's own restore points?
7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?

There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that the
problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people don't
realise that they have no restore points in Vista?

I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.

Thanks for all the help.
Morris

 

[John Barnes]

I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the
following
please.................

1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
yes
2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is
installed,
if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
yes
3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
yes
4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?

You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
has one)

5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?

VistaBootPro edits the Boot loader. Doesn't hide anything

6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows
Vista
to create it's own restore points?

No. Doesnt work

 

[Guest]

You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
has one)

Thanks John, just the clarity that I needed.

To follow on...............OK,there's a problem..........how to fix it?

1) Should BootITNG be installed on XP or on Vista ?
2) If installed on XP,.... bearing in mind that by running XP I'll be
deleting my Vista restore points,......will Vista write new restore points
even after XP has deleted them?......or has any 'permanent ' damage (ie until
Vista has been re-installed) been done. (I ask this because I couldn't create
a Restore point in Vista after running XP).

I need Dual boot because I help elderly people at a Computer Club in Spain
(they want to contact their families back home). One or two may have a new
Computer with Vista but most have XP. So, I need both to create screenshots
for them.

Thanks for the help
Morris

 

[MICHAEL]

I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the following
please.................

1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?

Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
shadow copy in backing up data.

Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the direct link to
work, so here's a google cached link.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...+restore+shadow+copy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
<quote>
The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of Shadow Copy Backup
instead of the file filter system used previously. As a result, the restore process is more
efficient and robust.

2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is installed,
if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?

Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.

3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
Yes.

4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
Yes.

5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?

VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
hide Vista.

6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows Vista
to create it's own restore points?

Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's restore
points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".

7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?

Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.

There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that the
problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people don't
realise that they have no restore points in Vista?

Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they have
other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.

I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.

Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.

Thanks for all the help.
Morris

Take care,

Michael

 

[John Barnes]

Thanks John, just the clarity that I needed.

To follow on...............OK,there's a problem..........how to fix it?

1) Should BootITNG be installed on XP or on Vista ?

Shouldn't make any difference as it operates pre operating system. It has
to be set to hide the Vista drive when booting to XP

2) If installed on XP,.... bearing in mind that by running XP I'll be
deleting my Vista restore points,......will Vista write new restore points
even after XP has deleted them?......or has any 'permanent ' damage (ie
until
Vista has been re-installed) been done. (I ask this because I couldn't
create
a Restore point in Vista after running XP).

There should be no permanent damage to the Vista restore process. Try
turning off and then back on to clear the restore process in Vista.

I need Dual boot because I help elderly people at a Computer Club in Spain
(they want to contact their families back home). One or two may have a new
Computer with Vista but most have XP. So, I need both to create
screenshots
for them.

You might consider running XP in one of the free virtual machines. You
won't have to reboot and won't have the restore problems.

 

[Richard Urban]

If all you need Windows XP for is to create screen shots for presentation
and training, I would suggest that you use Microsoft VirtualPC 2007 (FREE).

Install VirtualPC in your Vista installation. Then create a virtual machine
in VirtualPC and install Windows XP in that virtual machine. That way you
can run Windows XP while you are booted into Vista. It will always be there
and ready for you to call it up should you need it.

You can effectively forget about dual booting altogether.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Richard Urban]

I turned off system restore the day I installed TrueImage HOME. System
Restore is not anywhere as good as TrueImage, not as reliable and not
customizable to the extent that TrueImage is.



--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[MICHAEL]

I haven't turned off System Restore, but I do agree about
TrueImage being more reliable. In under 30 minutes, TrueImage
can restore an image and have you marveling how simple it seems.
It is well worth the money.

I also like it better than CompletePC Backup, and since most
users will probably be using Home Premium, which does not
come with CompletePC Backup, I would highly recommend them
to make a small investment in peace-of-mind and purchase
Acronis TrueImage Home.

Having *reliable* backups can *never* be over-emphasized.


-Michael

 

[John Barnes]

Personally I think both have their uses. Making copies of every file that I
have new stuff (mail, documents, favourites, etc) in since the last backup
is just too much trouble if all you need to do is roll back the registry to
clean it up after some failed install or uninstall.

 

[Richard Urban]

It only takes me 8 minutes, including the reboot, so......................
(-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Guest]

Well the topic has turned out to be a great learning curve.

Part of the reason for keeping XP was the fact that my new Creative Audigy
card (bought because of Vista) does not work correctly with Vista. I need the
microphone for Skype.

However, the microphone continually changes it's volume to such an extent
that it's inoperable.
The Creative forum has a long discussion on the subject without resolving it.

Now, after checking Virtual PC postings, it appears that USB peripherals (ie
webcam) wont' work under VPC.

Ah well............all this because the system restore in Vista wont work
with XP.

Thanks to all.
Morris

 

[John Barnes]

Takes me 30 minutes just to find and backup all the files I need to restore
to the restore. Then the restore take about 25 minutes, then I remember 2-3
files I forgot to backup, especially not that pictures, music, etc are in
separate files and no longer in My Documents. Way too much trouble except
as a last resort. Fortunately, I very rarely need to do either. Less than
1-2 times a year with XP (86 or 64). More likely with Vista64 as it seems
to get pretty screwed up by many failed installs or installs where the
program fails to work properly and then won't uninstall or uninstall
properly.

 

[Michal Kawecki]

Maybe Innotec VirtualBox will be a solution for you. It can operate
directly on USB ports and is also free.

 

[DanR]

Michael or anyone... what are the license restrictions for using one
purchased copy of Acronis True Image 10 Home on both the XP drive and the
Vista drive? Or for that matter can I purchase one copy and use it on more
than one computer in my home?
Ideally, I like to buy it and use it to backup my main computer which has XP
and Vista dual booting AND use it to backup my laptop. All to a NAS drive.
Couldn't find this info on the Acronis site.

 

[Richard Urban]

I am not aware of the restrictions. If you create the emergency boot CD it
can be used with any computer. Is it legal? I can't say. Many technicians
would not go into the field without having one of these CD in their kit. I
would assume that Acronis realizes this.

The Ghost CD, on the other hand, can be used for recovery only. You can not
create an image while booted up with the CD. That's why I stopped using
Ghost.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Tauty]

2) I have Vista and XP running on seperate SATA drives. XP does NOT delete
Vista restore points for me.
7)

 

[DanR]

Can you elaborate please??? Which OS was installed first. How do you dual
boot. Anything you can think of that makes your system unique?

 

[Bert Kinney]

Hi,

BootIt ENG (BING) is totally OS independent. BING can be run from a floppy,
Bootable CD, or installed onto it's own partition.

You will find more information here.

Dual Booting Windows Vista & Windows XP:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/dualboot.html

Regards,
Bert Kinney MS-MVP Shell/User
http://bertk.mvps.org
Member: http://dts-l.org