Does MS even care?

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

1.
What's with the Basic Theme?
It's has to be the ugliest choice of color I have ever seen. The layout is
ok, but the colors look like they were chosen randomly by a blind man. I
mean, babyblue windows and a black taskbar? Why not keep it all black/grey
or
stick with the blue.
WMP11 look so great in XP, but it looks like crap in Vista Basic.

Why not customize it to whatever you want?

2.
Why on earth did you disable the gameport?
I have a yoke and pedals which cost me ~$500 and will equally cost me
~$500
to replace.

Can't help you there, I haven't used a game port in years. Would a gameport
to usb converter work?

3.
DRM. I can understand that the industri want's to protect itself, but
making
an OS that cut's the output to you TV just because your TV is more than a
year old, is just plain stupid.

The DRM that everyone is talking about is for HDCP (High Definition Content
Protection) and is the most mis-understood part of Vista. First of all none
of the things you talked about is going to happen with ANY media out their
today. The content protection built into vista has to be activated by the
media you are trying to play and their is NO HDCP disks out yet. In fact
they are not even looking at releasing those types of disks until 2012!

4.
WGA. The above statement fits fairly well on this too.
Againg...I don't blaim MS for trying to protect their software, but let's
face it...There will allways be pirated versions out there

You're mostly right on this one. Will it stop piracy? No, of course not.
But it has curtailed it some. People doing casual copying will find it more
difficult to do and even if it curtailed it by say 1% then you are talking
about MILLIONS in recovered revenue.

On a final note...I want MS to comment on these things. Perhaps if I knew
the reason for these design decisions, I would change my mind.
After all, Vista has been 5 years underway, and frankly, it has nothing to
show for it. Unless of course you got thousands of $ to spend on new
hardware.

Most software companies are not going to write their software to work on
yesterday's equipment. What would be the point? Why should microsoft
create a new OS to run on yesterdays equipment when they already of an OS
that will do just that? When a company releases a new OS it is designed to
run todays and tomorrow's software/hardware. For the most part, Vista will
run on equipment made within the last 2 years as long as you can get drivers
for it. Like with any OS or software, the newer the hardware the more
pleasant the experience is going to be.

Jeff

 

[Adam Albright]

The problem being that for many, Vista is stable and does work extremely
well.. I am but one of them..

If Vista is installed on inappropriate equipment either by a user at home or
a major OEM vendor, then surely the home user and vendor should be taken to
task..

Explain why Vista doesn't allow a "Certified"* MB to properly function
with a certain SATA drive combination and why Vista, not the BIOS
attempts to load bogus IDE channels which it foolishly "sees" as
needed drivers and has NOTHING to do with SATA. I'm all ears waiting
for the learned response of any "MVP" to explain this apparant
paradox.

I won't hold my breath waiting though. ;-)

* According to Microsoft, in order to receive the coveted Certifed to
work with Vista logo a vendor must submit their hardware and pay for
extensive testing by Miscosoft that supposedly confims in fact said
hardware does work correctly with Vista.

If only...

 

[Guest]

I tend to agree. It appears that much more time and effort was put into XP.
XP is by far the best OS I have ever used.

But, to be fair, I have no personal experience with Vista, other than the 30
day trial thing in VPC2007 (which for obvious reason can't run aero)
The rest of my sparse knowledge of vista comes from blogs and communities.
If they fix the gameport issue I'm willing to give it a go, now that BillD
was so kind as to help me with the graphics issue.

Here

at newegg

PPA 1417 4 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

It has a gameport and cost 9.99

my issues #3 and #4 about the copyprotections are not really issues for me.
Except the "no output to my tv" thing.
I just think it's really stupid to implements such limitations, since
there's a free alternative that doesn't have this.

well you aren't running MS so get over it. ;-)

 

[NoStop]

MVPs can choose to *not* have their information listed. Many do.
Richard is a MVP.

And that is a badge of honour? Geez. Most Valuable Player using a Toy
Operating System. What, has he won a game or two of Minesweeper?

Cheers.

Tom
|
| | >I wasn't even responding to you!
| >
|
|
| http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
|
| according to them, you aren't even an MVP
| that figures, plus it explains a LOT
| freakin toad
|
|

--
The "Wow" starts now.

Windows is not a virus! Viruses are small, efficient and built to get a job
done. Windows on the other hand ...

 

[NoStop]

Mike Brannigan wrote:

The themes were designed as the result of a huge amount of usability
testing
and feedback during he development cycle.

Thank gawd they only did a "huge amount". Had they done less, they would
have certainly missed the "usability" of UACs. Anymore fairytales to
tell us Brannigan?

Cheers.

--
The "Wow" starts now.

Windows is not a virus! Viruses are small, efficient and built to get a job
done. Windows on the other hand ...

 

[Guest]

Thanks you for a good response.

Why not customize it to whatever you want?

How can you customize the basic theme?
Only way I can think of, is patching uxtheme etc and run some unsigned
msstyles file.
Problem is, that this was pretty easy in XP, but the textfiles inside the
msstyles have been encrypted, so the bitmaps are the only thing you can
change.
You can't change font colors etc (within the msstyles files that is)

Can't help you there, I haven't used a game port in years. Would a gameport
to usb converter work?

I've yet to find one.
Either the manufactorer can't say for sure that it will work with vista, or
the device doesn't support the number of axis and buttons my equipment has.

The DRM that everyone is talking about is for HDCP (High Definition Content
Protection) and is the most mis-understood part of Vista. First of all none
of the things you talked about is going to happen with ANY media out their
today. The content protection built into vista has to be activated by the
media you are trying to play and their is NO HDCP disks out yet. In fact
they are not even looking at releasing those types of disks until 2012!

Glad to hear it. That won't be an issue then.
Thanks for clearing that up.

You're mostly right on this one. Will it stop piracy? No, of course not.
But it has curtailed it some. People doing casual copying will find it more
difficult to do and even if it curtailed it by say 1% then you are talking
about MILLIONS in recovered revenue.

(I'm glad you understood this one. Several people responding to this thread,
seems to believe I was encouraging piracy. I was merely questioning the means
of fighting it.)
But how much has been spent doing R&D?
You make a good point, but I'm still not sure it's worth it.
But then again, that's none of my concern. I'm just worried that it will
cause grief for legitimate users, as seen so many times before.
That could cause people to switch altogether, and the lost revenue will be
even greater.

Most software companies are not going to write their software to work on
yesterday's equipment. What would be the point? Why should microsoft
create a new OS to run on yesterdays equipment when they already of an OS
that will do just that? When a company releases a new OS it is designed to
run todays and tomorrow's software/hardware. For the most part, Vista will
run on equipment made within the last 2 years as long as you can get drivers
for it. Like with any OS or software, the newer the hardware the more
pleasant the experience is going to be.

That's also a good point, but in general my pc is working quite well with
the games.
Meaning that, when I eventually do buy a new one, it will be because the
games I play needs it.
I do think something is wrong, if an new pc is needed just to run the
lastest os.


But after BillD showed me a graphics unit I can use, and after you've
cleared up the DRM and WGA issues, I only have the gameport issue left.
If I somehow get that sorted out, I will buy Vista immediatly.

Thanks.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry, but I think you missed the point. I have the gameport. Vista just
doesn't support it.

 

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

Thanks you for a good response.

How can you customize the basic theme?
Only way I can think of, is patching uxtheme etc and run some unsigned
msstyles file.
Problem is, that this was pretty easy in XP, but the textfiles inside the
msstyles have been encrypted, so the bitmaps are the only thing you can
change.
You can't change font colors etc (within the msstyles files that is)

Ok, here is how to get to the "classic" appearance menu so you can change
fonts and colors.

1. Right click on desktop and select "Personalize"
2. Left click on "Window Color and Appearance"
3. Left click on "Open classic appearance properties for more color options"
(link is in blue letters)
4. A new window should have opened. Click on "Advanced"

That should take you to the window (looks pretty much the same as in XP)
that allows you to select different parts of the desktop/windows and change
fonts, colors, etc...

Hope this is what you were talking about.

Jeff

 

[Thor]

Omron and Jeffrey:

Thank you both for an intelligent thread in which I learned a lot about
Omron's issues with Vista.

Two adults "speaking" respectfully to each other - it's a great thing!
This old man appreciates it very much.

Thor

 

[Guest]

Thanks...but...I knew about the classic theme.
I was hoping there was a way to customize the Basic theme.
Classic is too dull. Basic is very good, besides from the colors.
I like the layout, the rounded edges and the fading on buttons etc. I would
just like to be able to change the colors.

But I guess I just have to buy a new graphicscard. I can live with that. As
long as I don't have to buy a complete new pc.
I was under the impression that you needed a PCI Express card to get the
needed power, which meant a new mobo, which in turn more or less meant a
complete pc.
But BillD showed me that it is indeed possible to get a decent AGP card able
to run Aero.

So now I'm only left with the gameport issue...
It doesn't look good though...MS seems pretty stubborn about that. Infact, I
can't find anything from MS mentioning this, other than the "not supported"
statement.
No comments on what they will or will not do about it.

In the end, it doesn't really matter wether or not a new game is designed
for modern hardware or not. The game gets its joystick info from DX which in
turn gets it from the OS.
So the game doesn't nessecarily need to care about wether oor not it's an
usb device.

So what if it lags a bit...If I can't live with that, THEN I buy a new
controller.
The OS shouldn't decide what I can and cannot live with.

I got a little off topic from your post there...sorry ;-)

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP]

Which certified mb? make and model..

Explain why Vista doesn't allow a "Certified"* MB to properly function
with a certain SATA drive combination and why Vista, not the BIOS
attempts to load bogus IDE channels which it foolishly "sees" as
needed drivers and has NOTHING to do with SATA. I'm all ears waiting
for the learned response of any "MVP" to explain this apparant
paradox.

I won't hold my breath waiting though. ;-)

* According to Microsoft, in order to receive the coveted Certifed to
work with Vista logo a vendor must submit their hardware and pay for
extensive testing by Miscosoft that supposedly confims in fact said
hardware does work correctly with Vista.

If only...

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

No problem! Glad I could be helpful!

Jeff

Omron and Jeffrey:

Thank you both for an intelligent thread in which I learned a lot about
Omron's issues with Vista.

Two adults "speaking" respectfully to each other - it's a great thing!
This old man appreciates it very much.

Thor

 

[Jeffrey S. Sparks]

The instructions should take you to the window to change that. When I said
"classic" i didn't mean theme I meant the control app that looks like the
one in XP.

I believe you can change the fonts, colors, etc in there no matter what
"theme" you are using. Never really messed around with changing those
colors in Vista though since I am using the Aero interface but should work
in your case.

Jeff

 

[Richard Urban]

What you were roughly saying in number 4 is that because there is always
going to be piracy out there Microsoft should spend the money to better
their product, instead of fighting the piracy.

Here is your quote:

*****************************************

4.
WGA. The above statement fits fairly well on this too.
Againg...I don't blaim MS for trying to protect their software, but let's
face it...There will allways be pirated versions out there.
How does it feel to spend endless hours and $ to make a version of WGA just
to see it cracked the very next day? Then you tirelesly work on a new
version, just to have that cracked aswell.
And the WGA ends up being so critical it actually hurts the legal users.
Look what happened to the StarForce copy protection.

Face it...You can't beat the piracy thing.
Why not use the money to put more effort into the OS itself.
Perhaps...dare I say it...a decent UI ;-)

******************************************

I responded with:

Why don't you take all the exterior doors off of your home because someday
you may be robbed anyway. Concentrate your efforts and money on making the
inside of your home more luxurious and livable (so the robbers will want
what you have inside even more).

After all, the person who wants what you have may be poor and unable to
purchase that which you have for himself. That doesn't mean that he should
not be allowed to take yours.


In other words, don't worry about security against robbery (the same thing
as security against piracy), just leave your home unguarded and open. Update
your program (your house) to make it better and more desirable to the
thieves (pirates).

Sorry Bub, I commented on what you wrote and I read.
--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Guest]

Oh, I see.
Well, that is true. I can change the font colors and such.
But then I still need to use a res-editor to change the bitmaps in msstyles,
and patch my uxtheme.dll.

Seems like a lot of work.

Thanks for your suggestions though.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

And then you said :
I don't remember calling you an idiot, but somehow you managed to turn what
some other guy said, against me, calling me an idiot. How nice of you...

Besides, my comment even started with :Clearly stating that I DO NOT SUPPORT PIRACY!!!!

And yet, you somehow twisted that into :
See where I'm going with this?

You may not agree with me how the money could be better spent, but I really
don't care about that.

And you clearly misunderstood the remark about using the money on the UI.

Notice the last line? Notice how it fits with the very first remark my post
started with.
Notice the " ;-) "?
And don't tell me Vista doesn't need some serious work...A huge amount of
posts in this forum, is about functionality that's either missing or not
working etc.
Unless MS want's to loose market, I think they should stop wasting money on
a stillborn project like WGA and start listening to their customers needs.

Anyway...You won't find any shred of evidence on my original post, of me
stating that I don't think companies have the right of responsibility to
protect themselves.
In fact, I thought I made very clear that dont support piracy.
But remarks clearly states that within the first two lines.
Because I didn't want to be misunderstood.
And it worked for the most part.
Other people didn't seem to have a problem with it.

How the money should be spent, was the never the point of the comment. The
point of the comment is, that MS throws alot of money away on a project that
only hurt legit users. Legit users suddenly experience that they have illegal
copies, because some bonehead has used their key one too many times.

The "put more effort into the OS" means that it's frustrating to know that a
company throws money down the toilet, and then releases a half-finished
product.
Save the money. Finish the product. Listen to your users.


Besides, if the "Take the doors of your house" thing is the best respond you
could think of, I'd appreciate it of you stayed away from any future posts of
mine.
I started the thread, trying to get some oppinions/solutions. Not to
ridiculed by some wiseguy.

PS. You imaginary robber didn't actually steal my tv. He only made a copy of
it.

 

[Richard Urban]

WAG is not perfect. It is here. It is going to stay. It may get hardened
even more over the coming months. That is a fact of life, and like it or
not, it has been caused by the people who think that they can have something
for free.

When your neighbor installed Windows 98 on three home computers, after
paying for it once, he helped create this problem.

When the college kids pooled together and got Windows 2000, and then loaded
it on every computer in the dorm, it helped create this problem.

Now we ALL are having to learn to accept it.

Thanks to you all, if you fit in the above categories.

And, Microsoft will continue to spend money to find out how to stop the
hemorrhaging.

As a "public" corporation, they have the absolute **responsibility** to
maximize their profits for anyone who holds Microsoft stock, which may, in
fact, include some of your relatives and friends.

As for my statement to *****MICHAEL***** that was this:

***********************************************

People who think that a company has no right, or responsibility, to protect
their profits is the idiot.

***********************************************

If you know for a fact that you do NOT fit into the category I classified,
why do you take offense with my statement?

I "DID NOT" call ***you*** an idiot. You seem to have accepted the fact, and
placed yourself in this category. Why you decided that you fit into this
category is for you to determine. I didn't place you there. You did!

If you feel I personally called you an idiot, I apologize!



--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Richard Urban]

The above, of course, should be WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) and not
WAG..

Sorry. <grin>

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User

 

[Zim Babwe]

Did someone piss in your cornflakes?

http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx

according to them, you aren't even an MVP
that figures, plus it explains a LOT
freakin toad

 

[Guest]

As for my statement to *****MICHAEL***** that was this:

***********************************************

People who think that a company has no right, or responsibility, to protect
their profits is the idiot.

***********************************************

If you know for a fact that you do NOT fit into the category I classified,
why do you take offense with my statement?

I "DID NOT" call ***you*** an idiot. You seem to have accepted the fact, and
placed yourself in this category. Why you decided that you fit into this
category is for you to determine. I didn't place you there. You did!

If you feel I personally called you an idiot, I apologize!

Fair enough. I know the response was to Michael, but I was regarding
something I said. Of course I take it personally.
But if you say that is was not intended for me, then apology accepted.

And I know WGA probably are here to stay, and I know that something has to
be done. No argument about that.
I just can't help feel, that there should be a smoother way, that doesn't
harm legit users.
I mentioned StarForce in my original post. Eventually the major game
companies stopped using them, because they were causing too much grief for
legit users.
I would hate it if WGA caused the same thing.

The goal doesn't justify the means.