DirectX 10 backwards compatibility


A

Arthur Lipscomb

I've been reading about all of the improvements DirectX 10 offers over
DirectX 9 but I'm confused about backwards compatibility. I have a few
questions I hope someone here can clear up.



When Vista is installed will it install DirectX 10 even if the computer only
has a directX 9 video card?

Once Vista/DirectX 10 is installed will a DirectX 9 video card be able to
use any of the DirectX 10 features?

Since Vista/aero uses DirectX 9 is the only benefit from a DirectX 10 video
card from future games that require DirectX 10?

Will games that require DirectX10 play properly using a DirectX 9 video
cards (assuming DirectX 10 is installed)?





Thanks
 
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D

Dale \Mad_Murdock\ White

I'm no expert on this area, but I believe I can answer a few of this based
on previous experieces with DX8 and DX9 and what's I've seen so far with
Vista and Games. See comments below


Arthur Lipscomb said:
I've been reading about all of the improvements DirectX 10 offers over
DirectX 9 but I'm confused about backwards compatibility. I have a few
questions I hope someone here can clear up.



When Vista is installed will it install DirectX 10 even if the computer
only has a directX 9 video card?

My version says DX10 is installed, but it's my understanding that DX9.0L is
installed for backwards compatibility

Once Vista/DirectX 10 is installed will a DirectX 9 video card be able to
use any of the DirectX 10 features?

More than likely not, According to one article I read, DX 10 was re-written
from the ground up. Plus it goes with the we'll use DX9.0L for backwards
Compatibility
Since Vista/aero uses DirectX 9 is the only benefit from a DirectX 10
video card from future games that require DirectX 10?

DX in general is pretty much only for video cards\Video games. All the DX8,
9.a.b.c releases where to add new features to use in Video games. (like SMS
3.0, etc etc). There might have been some features for Videos playback, but
I'm not feature expert on the DX family.
Will games that require DirectX10 play properly using a DirectX 9 video
cards (assuming DirectX 10 is installed)?

Not likely, Far Cry was a DX 9.0 game that you could get to run on DX8
hardware, but at a lost of image quality and artifcats. I myself could never
get a good working game on my old TI4400 card, but other had screen shots
showing running, though it was pretty ugly in some areas.
 
J

Jim

I've been reading about all of the improvements DirectX 10 offers over
DirectX 9 but I'm confused about backwards compatibility. I have a few
questions I hope someone here can clear up.



When Vista is installed will it install DirectX 10 even if the computer only
has a directX 9 video card?

Once Vista/DirectX 10 is installed will a DirectX 9 video card be able to
use any of the DirectX 10 features?

Since Vista/aero uses DirectX 9 is the only benefit from a DirectX 10 video
card from future games that require DirectX 10?

Will games that require DirectX10 play properly using a DirectX 9 video
cards (assuming DirectX 10 is installed)?





Thanks



My graphics card is DirectX 9c ompatible, yet the Vista Experience
gives me 5.9, so I guess DX10 isn't that critical.

(Sorry, that doesn't answer the question....)

Jim
 
A

Arthur Lipscomb

Dale "Mad_Murdock" White said:
I'm no expert on this area, but I believe I can answer a few of this based
on previous experieces with DX8 and DX9 and what's I've seen so far with
Vista and Games. See comments below




My version says DX10 is installed, but it's my understanding that DX9.0L
is installed for backwards compatibility



More than likely not, According to one article I read, DX 10 was
re-written from the ground up. Plus it goes with the we'll use DX9.0L for
backwards Compatibility


DX in general is pretty much only for video cards\Video games. All the
DX8, 9.a.b.c releases where to add new features to use in Video games.
(like SMS 3.0, etc etc). There might have been some features for Videos
playback, but I'm not feature expert on the DX family.


Not likely, Far Cry was a DX 9.0 game that you could get to run on DX8
hardware, but at a lost of image quality and artifcats. I myself could
never get a good working game on my old TI4400 card, but other had screen
shots showing running, though it was pretty ugly in some areas.

I'm not much of a gamer. Other than occasionally downloading a demo of
Quake, Doom or Half life, the most sophisticated graphics intensive games I
own are the Command and Conquer series. My current AGP card with 128 megs
of memory is more than enough for them. But I'm building a new system with
Vista in mind and I'm switching over to a PCI-E card. The one I have in
mind has 512 megs of memory which I hope will be more than enough to meet my
needs for the foreseeable future. My concern is shortly after Vista and
DirectX 10 is released my new video card will not only be obsolete but
incompatible with new games and software that require DirectX 10.

I'm already going to have to deal with compatibility issues since I will be
installing the 64bit version of Vista. The last thing I want is to deal
with Direct X compatibility issues as well.

I wonder if a year from now I'm going to be regretting now having a DirectX
10 card or not noticing the difference.
 
D

Dale \Mad_Murdock\ White

Arthur Lipscomb said:
I wonder if a year from now I'm going to be regretting now having a
DirectX 10 card or not noticing the difference.

Well, if you're in a rush, I think you'll cheat yourself a little. Hopefully
in the next month or two, Nvidia will release the Consumer minded card,
where you'll get a 256 or 512 Meg 8800 card for around $250-300, an I'm sure
they will have at least one crappy $150 card that will get you by.

In my mind, now is not the time to buy new hardware, until Vista is
Officially out and you can see who is going ot support it and whether
they'll have 64 bit drivers. I have a Promise fasttrack TX2000 card, that I
can use the 2003 drivers for the 32 bit edition, but they don't have any
Vista or Vista 64 bit driver cards. So I'll be waiting until I see a new
RAID card that offers vista support and preferrable 64 bit support.

In reality, Buying anything in the next 2 months will probably have a fir
number of people looking back, wishing they would have waited. Then agaim
you can always upgrade in a year from now.
 
A

Arthur Lipscomb

Dale "Mad_Murdock" White said:
Well, if you're in a rush, I think you'll cheat yourself a little.
Hopefully in the next month or two, Nvidia will release the Consumer
minded card, where you'll get a 256 or 512 Meg 8800 card for around
$250-300, an I'm sure they will have at least one crappy $150 card that
will get you by.

In my mind, now is not the time to buy new hardware, until Vista is
Officially out and you can see who is going ot support it and whether
they'll have 64 bit drivers. I have a Promise fasttrack TX2000 card, that
I can use the 2003 drivers for the 32 bit edition, but they don't have any
Vista or Vista 64 bit driver cards. So I'll be waiting until I see a new
RAID card that offers vista support and preferrable 64 bit support.

In reality, Buying anything in the next 2 months will probably have a fir
number of people looking back, wishing they would have waited. Then agaim
you can always upgrade in a year from now.

I have a tendency to upgrade my computer (new motherboard/CPU, etc.) about
every two years with incremental upgrades in-between. The system I'm on now
was purchased two years ago with Vista in mind. AMD Athlon 64, 160 gig SATA
hard drive, 1 gig of memory and not knowing if the new PCI-E fad would take
hold an ATI All in wonder 9600 AGP video card . At the time, I figured
these specs would last at least 4 or 5 years. I have subsequently purchased
an additional gig of memory and a second 500 gig SATA hard drive. Now I've
purchased an AMD 64 dual core and motherboard with PCI-E support. The only
thing stopping me from installing the new motherboard/CPU is I need a PCI-E
video card. I would like a directX10 card but the ones on the market now
are around $650 (who pays that much just for a video card). I'd consider
waiting for a cheaper DirectX 10 video card but I don't really see the point
*if* the directX 9 card I'm thinking about can do the job. Currently,
there's nothing I'm limited from doing with my current video card so my
question is will that continue to hold true in the future after DirectX 10
is released.

My guess is even if I wait and buy a DirectX 10 card I won't notice the
difference and when it's time to upgrade again I'll need to buy a DirectX 11
card anyway.
 
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D

Dale \Mad_Murdock\ White

I have a tendency to upgrade my computer (new motherboard/CPU, etc.) about
every two years with incremental upgrades in-between. The system I'm on
now was purchased two years ago with Vista in mind. AMD Athlon 64, 160
gig SATA hard drive, 1 gig of memory and not knowing if the new PCI-E fad
would take hold an ATI All in wonder 9600 AGP video card . At the time, I
figured these specs would last at least 4 or 5 years. I have subsequently
purchased an additional gig of memory and a second 500 gig SATA hard
drive. Now I've purchased an AMD 64 dual core and motherboard with PCI-E
support. The only thing stopping me from installing the new
motherboard/CPU is I need a PCI-E video card. I would like a directX10
card but the ones on the market now are around $650 (who pays that much
just for a video card). I'd consider waiting for a cheaper DirectX 10
video card but I don't really see the point *if* the directX 9 card I'm
thinking about can do the job. Currently, there's nothing I'm limited
from doing with my current video card so my question is will that continue
to hold true in the future after DirectX 10 is released.

My guess is even if I wait and buy a DirectX 10 card I won't notice the
difference and when it's time to upgrade again I'll need to buy a DirectX
11 card anyway.

I feel your pain on the decision making. I couldn't make my mind up last
spring on whether I wanted to go with an AM2 or stick with the 939 for a
little while longer, though I had to have a PCI-E card, in my case I stayed
with the 939, since all I would need is a Video card and Mobo, versus the
big 4 (mobo, CPU, Card DDR2 memory), Since I'm one of those people that will
pay $450 for a video card, opted to stay with the 939 to save money. Like
you, I just upgraded from a 3800+ to a 4800+ X2 and I figured that will get
me by until sometime next summer, maybe even next fall.

I'm holding off on the DX10 cards until ATI (now AMD) releases their new
DX10 card and the prices drop enough to get me something that can play all
the new games, even if I have to wait a few months to play them. Probably
the only difference between you and me, it seems is that I'm a more hardcore
gamer, as I play them all and demand great performance. So I'm a slave to
the yearly upgrades
 
R

Richard Urban

Arthur Lipscomb said:
I've been reading about all of the improvements DirectX 10 offers over
DirectX 9 but I'm confused about backwards compatibility. I have a few
questions I hope someone here can clear up.



When Vista is installed will it install DirectX 10 even if the computer
only has a directX 9 video card?

Once Vista/DirectX 10 is installed will a DirectX 9 video card be able to
use any of the DirectX 10 features?

Since Vista/aero uses DirectX 9 is the only benefit from a DirectX 10
video card from future games that require DirectX 10?

Will games that require DirectX10 play properly using a DirectX 9 video
cards (assuming DirectX 10 is installed)?





Thanks




Well, I have a DX9 video board. I run dxdiag (yes, it's still there) and it
reports that DX10 is installed. I have no problems that have arisen because
of this.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
T

Tim Draper

always been the case. any DX release has been installable on an old GPU
card. DX8 on a DX7 card, and DX10, on a DX9 card.
nope. because it's hardware accelerated. in other words, the GPU is
build to include DX9-set features in it's chipset. because it's
hard-coded into the GPU it cannot be changed, thus only capable for dx9
features.
however, that is NOT to say you cant use a DX10 app on a DX9 card. it
will just be very slow rendering. go run 3dmark05/06 on a DX8 card. it
will run, but be extremely slow.

atm, yes. thats the real benefit of dx anyway.
unless there is a patch comes out, then using a dx10 card on a dx9 api
will have no processing difference. speed = possibly, but thats down to
transistor's on the GPU, not because its specifically DX10.
you will only notice the value of a DX10 card in a DX10 environment.
running a DX10 card in DX9 will process and render the same as a DX9 gpu
card.

see above... usually games will be multi DX coded. look at CoD2. it had
both DX7 and DX9 features.
steam has same thing: if your card does not support HDR (a DX9 feature),
then it wont use it.
to get the best out of the game, then ur obviously gonna need a DX10 card.
 
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G

Guest

I could be wrong but while Vista uses DirectX 10, for backward compatibility
it uses a version of DirectX 9 called DirectX 9.0L. Even Aero Glass uses
DirectX 9. So far I have not had any problems in games other than ones that
were buggy to begin with (Dark Messiah)
 

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