Defrag Risks?

[CWLee]

Since Vista normally does defragmentation in the background,
frequently, and regularly, it seems to me this increases the
risks of damage from a power failure. Obvious 1st level
solution is a UPS, but with the defrag program probably
running while we sleep, we don't hear the alarm within the
15-20 minutes typical of UPS performance. The 2nd level
solution would be a UPS with the ability to close all
running programs - especially defragmentation - and then
shut the computer down within 5 minutes or so of a power
outage.

My question: Is there such a UPS on the market? My local
sources (Staples, Office Depot) do not inspire confidence
that they even understand the question. Google searches
were similarly confusing, although that may say more about
my search skills than Google's inventory of information.

Your suggested solutions appreciated.

--

 

[Mr. Arnold]

Since Vista normally does defragmentation in the background,
frequently, and regularly, it seems to me this increases the
risks of damage from a power failure. Obvious 1st level
solution is a UPS, but with the defrag program probably
running while we sleep, we don't hear the alarm within the
15-20 minutes typical of UPS performance. The 2nd level
solution would be a UPS with the ability to close all
running programs - especially defragmentation - and then
shut the computer down within 5 minutes or so of a power
outage.

My question: Is there such a UPS on the market? My local
sources (Staples, Office Depot) do not inspire confidence
that they even understand the question. Google searches
were similarly confusing, although that may say more about
my search skills than Google's inventory of information.

Your suggested solutions appreciated.

Don't hold me to it because I have not used my Belkin UPS in a long time as
all of my stuff is in storage while I am program contracting around the US,
but I know my Belkin UPS with the Bulldog software will shutdown all running
applications. You'll have to see if the Bulldog software is Vista
compliant. I don't know if Bulldog will shutdown something like Dfrag. You
can always call Belkin to find out about a UPS's features and the software.


http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=589

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=589

 

[Steve Thackery]

As far as I know, the defrag API still uses the journalling in NTFS, so it
should be as resilient to power failures as any other disk access.

SteveT

 

[Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]]

A UPS of course would be a great investment for your computer just in case
you experience power spike, power outages where you live. Regardless the
computer is running the defrag utility in the background or not, your
computer is susceptible failure if its not shutdown properly, bad device
driver, or defective software program.

One of the great things about modern operating systems such as Windows Vista
and even XP, they use a journalized file system which keeps a constant snap
shot of how the operating system was working. So in case of things like a
'power failure', you are able to recover the system to a working state in no
time.

 

[Michael Walraven]

'Most' UPS with USB interface are supported native in vista. Vista will
automatically shut down as power is exhausted.
If the UPS has a serial interface then Vista will not natively support it,
the UPS maker should supply a driver that does the same thing.
Check that the UPS has 'vista supported' statement on the box.

Michael
Vista Home Premium, CyberPower 800AVR UPS

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Since Vista normally does defragmentation in the background,
frequently, and regularly, it seems to me this increases the
risks of damage from a power failure.

Probably true, but these days even the increased risk is very slight.
I wouldn't worry about it.

Obvious 1st level
solution is a UPS,

I don't think of a UPS as being primarily to protect against power
failure while defragging, but my view is that a UPS is so cheap these
days that almost everyone should have one. I have three desktops here,
and they all run with UPSs.

 

[DevilsPGD]

In message <#[email protected]> "CWLee"

Since Vista normally does defragmentation in the background,
frequently, and regularly, it seems to me this increases the
risks of damage from a power failure.

NTFS is fully journaled, unless you turn on the "Enable Advanced
Performance" checkbox in your hard drive properties, there is no risk.

In short, what happens is this: Vista copies the cluster to an otherwise
unallocated cluster. If power is lost, the new cluster is still marked
as free, so no harm done (and no chkdsk required to fix it either)

Next, a note is made in the journal that the file allocation tables are
being updated, and that write is committed. If something goes wrong,
that part of the journal is seen as incomplete and discarded, which
means the pointer to the data hasn't yet moved, and so your data is
safe.

Now Vista updates the NTFS allocation tables. If something goes wrong
here, it gets detected the next time the drive is mounted because there
is "unfinished" work in the journal. Vista completes the change based
on the notes in the journal, and the pointer to the data is updated
successfully.

Last, Vista notes in the journal that the task is complete.

At no time during this process is any data at risk of any failure mode,
although in some cases it may need a chkdsk to release all of the space
taken up. As I understand it, even without a chkdsk, there still is no
possibility of data loss when an application is using the defrag APIs
(or any other application level file system APIs on an NTFS partition)

 

[baynole2]

On Nov 22, 5:53 am, caretaker <[email protected]>
wrote:

1st favorable comment I have seen on Vista. I am not being snotty; I
am interested in how users like it.I have no experience w/ it myself.

 

[Andrew Suh]

Well first off, i would keep a 500gb drive and back up important files like once every few weeks, or until you add new files...but a UPS could be handy once in a while. But if u want one...try http://www.apcc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13
....yeah...

EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/default.aspx?ref=ng

 

[Andrew Suh]

But what i don't understand is...why a UPS? im not trying to be mean, but isn't it cheaper to get a hi-cap external drive and back-up your computer?

EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/default.aspx?ref=ng

 

[Gordon]

But what i don't understand is...why a UPS? im not trying to be mean, but
isn't it cheaper to get a hi-cap external drive and back-up your computer?

EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/default.aspx?ref=ng

Posted and mailed

To whom are you talking and about what?
The "forum" that you are posting in leaches off the Microsoft News servers
in order to make it look far busier than it really is. Everyone who uses the
MS News servers sees your post on it's own - we have NO IDEA what you are
talking about and to whom you are talking.

This is not your fault - the fault lies with the forum owners who do not
explain to members that their posts end up on global Usenet newsgroups.
If you MUST continue to post in this "forum" then please at least quote the
post you are replying to, and do NOT change the subject line.

You would be far better off however, using a news reader and subscribing to
these news groups direct.

Setting up Outlook Express/Windows Mail to access Microsoft newsgroups
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

Accessing the MS newsgroups in Outlook Express/Windows Mail Newsreader
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroupsetup.mspx


Thank you

 

[Gordon]

YO! Moron!

Quote what you're replying to and don't change the subject.

He's posting in what he THINKS is a web forum - EggheadCafe. It's not his
fault, it's the fault of the forum owners for not telling their members that
their posts end up on MS News servers...

 

[Malke]

Well first off, i would keep a 500gb drive and back up important files
like once every few weeks, or until you add new files...but a UPS could be
handy once in a while. But if u want one...try
http://www.apcc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13 ...yeah...

EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/default.aspx?ref=ng

Another problematic post from EggHead. This and the other post you made are
not useful and this is why:

No one knows to whom you are giving this information since you are not
posting on a real forum as you think you are and you didn't quote any of
the thread to which you are replying. You are using a web interface that
leeches Usenet posts and most of the rest of us are using real newsreaders.
We don't see what you do. If you want to participate in Usenet, the better
way is to set up a newsreader. This is very easy to do and I'll give you
information about that below. If you prefer to use a forum, then here are
two excellent ones:

http://forum.aumha.org/index.php
http://http://computerhaven.info/

Since you are using a web interface, you may not realize that this is really
a newsgroup. You will get far more out of this resource if you learn to use
a newsreader. There are many good newsreaders for Windows, but you can use
Outlook Express (XP) or Windows Mail (Vista) since you already have it.
Here are some links to information about newsgroups:

About Usenet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ - Usenet FAQs from the Internet FAQ Archives
http://www.usenetmonster.com/infocenter/
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Usenet - a brief explanation
of newsgroups

Outlook Express/Windows Mail as Newsreader:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm
http://rickrogers.org/setupoe.htm
http://vistasupport.mvps.org/accessing_newsgrousp_with-windows_mail.htm

How to Post:
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Usenet
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 - How to Ask a Question
http://users.tpg.com.au/bzyhjr/liszt.htm - How Not to Get Technical Help on
Usenet


http://aumha.org/nntp.htm - list of MS newsgroups
microsoft.public.test.here - MS group to test if your newsreader is working
properly
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/munad.htm - how to munge email address
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting - crossposting
http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm - multiposting

Other Newsreaders for Windows:
http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php - Forte
http://www.mozilla.org - Thunderbird

Malke

 

[measekite's psychiatrist]

He's posting in what he THINKS is a web forum - EggheadCafe. It's not his
fault, it's the fault of the forum owners for not telling their members
that their posts end up on MS News servers...

But YOUR posting is YOUR fault. Moron.