defrag not reducing fragmentation

G

Guest

Hi all.
I'm running XP-Pro, 600mhz, w/ 544mb ram. It's a 2000 GW2K Solo9300VE
laptop, with a hdd upgrade to 40gb.
After having to pull this thing out of mothballs, I reinstalled everything
and got it back up and running. For the past few months, I've noticed that
each time I try to run std maint. utilities, my defrag never gets me below a
20-30% fragmentation.
I can run it 10++ times, and nothing changes after the third run through.
There have been times in which my drive free space has gotten below the
minimum 15% recommended, and I did the defrag.
Presently, I'm at 23% free space, and 30% defrag.
Oh, this is important too....
I've partitioned the 40gb drive to 5gb for my OS, and a 27gb partition for
storage, and installation directories for <u>all</u> of my other programs.
My question--
Is it within reason that I've passed some unwritten point of "no return" for
fragmentation?
I see that some of the MCP's are recommending use of third party utility
programs. I used to use Norton, but after their change of programming
practices in 2005, I finally had to give up, as the internet security suite
ruined two other laptops.
Your responses would be appreciated.
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Steve

You need 15% on the partition being defragmented.

To investigate how you are using hard disk space you need to make sure that
you can see all files. Go to Start, Control Panel, Folder Options, View,
Advanced Settings and verify that the box before "Show hidden files and
folders" is checked and "Hide protected operating system files " is
unchecked. You may need to scroll down to see the second item. You should
also make certain that the box before "Hide extensions for known file types"
is not checked. Next in Windows Explorer make sure View, Details is selected
and then select View, Choose Details and check before Name, Type, Total
Size, and Free Space.

You still will not see the System Volume Information folder.
How to Gain Access to the System Volume Information Folder
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;309531

FileSize -a useful tool for use with Windows Explorer when investigating how
disk space is being used.
http://markd.mvps.org/

The download link is not obvious. Click the here in the two sentences of the
web page accessed through the link above. "I can't count the number of times
someone has asked for this. So here is a module you can install that shows a
Folder Size column in Explorer."

To increase you free space on your C select Start, All Programs,
Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and
remove all but the latest System Restore points? Restore points can be quite
large.

You should use Disk CleanUp regularly to Empty your Recycle Bin and
Remove Temporary Internet Files. Whenever you remove redundant files you
should always run Disk Defragmenter by selecting Start, All Programs,
Accessories, System Tools, Disk Defragmenter.

It is likely that an allocation of 12% has been made to System Restore on
your C partition which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right
click your My Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore.
Place the cursor on your C drive select Settings but this time find the
slider and drag it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get
to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit. You should not allow
System Restore to monitor any partition other than the partition containing
Windows XP.

Are you using any Norton Utilities?

If your hard drive is formatted as NTFS another potential gain arises with
your operating system on your C drive. In the Windows Directory of your
C partition you will have some Uninstall folders in your Windows folder
typically: $NtServicePackUninstall$ and $NtUninstallKB282010$ etc.

These files may be compressed or not compressed. If compressed the text
of the folder name appears in blue characters. If not compressed you can
compress them. Right click on each folder and select Properties, General,
Advanced and check the box before Compress contents to save Disk Space.
On the General Tab you can see the amount gained by deducting the size
on disk from the size. Folder compression is only an option on a NTFS
formatted drive / partition.

Another default setting on a large drive which could be wasteful is that for
temporary internet files especially if you do not store offline copies on
disk. The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files, Settings
to make the change. At the same time look at the number of days history
is held.

The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. On your drive
5% should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor on your
Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and move the slider
from 10% to 5%,

Do you have files / folders that might be moved to the other partitions?

To move programmes use Add / Remove Programs in Start, Control Panel, Add /
Remove Programs to uninstall programmes. Create a Programs Directory on
your other partition and reinstall there.

Some other notes you may find useful.

Create a My Documents folder in another partition and copy ( not move ) the
contents of My Documents to your new folder. Then delete the files in your
My Documents folder ( if you encounter problems deleting use Shift + Delete
to bypass the Recycle Bin ). You will also need to change Default File
locations in the Microsoft Office programmes you use. For Word go to Tools,
Options, File Locations, highlight Documents, click on Modify and change
file path. For Excel go to Tools, Options, General and change default file
path.

For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet Options,
Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express Tools,
Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
P

P D Sterling

Okay, I am not as advanced as a lot of you guys. When I right click on my
computer, I do not see a "System Restore" option. Pls Hlp. Tks
--
Regards,

P D Sterling
www.pdsterling.com
214/520-6655 voice
214/550-2618 FAX
 
W

Wesley Vogel

Right click My Computer | Click Properties | System Restore tab

Or Windows key + Pause key | System Restore tab

Or, Start | Run | Type: sysdm.cpl Click OK | System Restore tab

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In
 
G

Guest

Gerry,
Thanks for your response.
I'm going to interdigitate my response with yours.
You need 15% on the partition being defragmented.
I am aware of the 15% requirement.
To investigate how you are using hard disk space you need to make sure that
you can see all files. Go to Start, Control Panel, Folder Options, View,
Advanced Settings and verify that the box before "Show hidden files and
folders" is checked and "Hide protected operating system files " is
unchecked. You may need to scroll down to see the second item. You should
also make certain that the box before "Hide extensions for known file types"
is not checked. Next in Windows Explorer make sure View, Details is selected
and then select View, Choose Details and check before Name, Type, Total
Size, and Free Space.

Done, done, done, and done. I always make these settings within the first
few weeks of activating the computer.
You still will not see the System Volume Information folder.
How to Gain Access to the System Volume Information Folder
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;309531

Will look this up.
FileSize -a useful tool for use with Windows Explorer when investigating how
disk space is being used.
http://markd.mvps.org/

Will check on this.
The download link is not obvious. Click the here in the two sentences of the
web page accessed through the link above. "I can't count the number of times
someone has asked for this. So here is a module you can install that shows a
Folder Size column in Explorer."
To increase you free space on your C select Start, All Programs,
Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and
remove all but the latest System Restore points? Restore points can be quite
large.
You should use Disk CleanUp regularly to Empty your Recycle Bin and
Remove Temporary Internet Files. Whenever you remove redundant files you
should always run Disk Defragmenter by selecting Start, All Programs,
Accessories, System Tools, Disk Defragmenter.
It is likely that an allocation of 12% has been made to System Restore on
your C partition which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right
click your My Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore.
Place the cursor on your C drive select Settings but this time find the
slider and drag it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get
to the Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit. You should not allow
System Restore to monitor any partition other than the partition containing
Windows XP.

While it is set at 12%, that's only 599mb on this drive. I.e., reread my
initial post. I'd stated that I have a multi-partitioned drive, with my
primary set at 5gb.
Are you using any Norton Utilities?

Please read my post again. I quit using them due to how they screwed up the
2005 Security suite. They do not appear to use an independent utility
package-- I own(ed) System Works 2004. In order to get a working security/AV
package, I had to uninstall everything from Norton. They've lost my respect,
and trust. The screw up they caused cost me well over 40 hours of trying
their recommendations, doing a backup, formatting, and re-installing the OS,
programs, etc..... NEVER AGAIN!!!!
If your hard drive is formatted as NTFS another potential gain arises with
your operating system on your C drive. In the Windows Directory of your
C partition you will have some Uninstall folders in your Windows folder
typically: $NtServicePackUninstall$ and $NtUninstallKB282010$ etc.

Did NTFS a long time ago. I removed my uninstall back ups a long time ago.
I.e., the backups that allow the user to restore the previous versions?
Sorry, I'm half brain fried now, and can't think of the correct term.
These files may be compressed or not compressed. If compressed the text
of the folder name appears in blue characters. If not compressed you can
compress them. Right click on each folder and select Properties, General,
Advanced and check the box before Compress contents to save Disk Space.
On the General Tab you can see the amount gained by deducting the size
on disk from the size. Folder compression is only an option on a NTFS
formatted drive / partition.

Did disk compression yesterday, prior to posting this. Reclaimed 445mb's.
Another default setting on a large drive which could be wasteful is that for
temporary internet files especially if you do not store offline copies on
disk. The default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to
offline copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer
select Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files, Settings
to make the change. At the same time look at the number of days history
is held.

I stopped using IE a long time ago, and now only use NS. Since however, that
NS 8 now mixes the two main browser engines, I do this weekly. In fact, I
suppose that I should have previously stated that I do weekly maintenance on
my system. After months of trying defrag weekly, and never getting it fully
defrag'd, I decided that posting with the pros might actually find me a
solution to this. Oh, to your point-- I never did do offline accessible
webpages.
The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. On your drive
5% should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor on your
Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and move the slider
from 10% to 5%,

I generally empty my recycle bin every other day. And still do disk cleanup
weekly as part of my weekly maintenance.
Do you have files / folders that might be moved to the other partitions?

The main files/folders that I am AWARE of were my mail folders. I moved them
over a few weeks back. In fact, I would like to know of more files that I
could move, that aren't dependent on being on my primary drive. I always
choose a secondary drive when available for main installation directory of
programs.
To move programmes use Add / Remove Programs in Start, Control Panel, Add /Remove Programs to uninstall programmes. Create a Programs Directory on
your other partition and reinstall there.

Some other notes you may find useful.

Create a My Documents folder in another partition and copy ( not move ) the
contents of My Documents to your new folder. Then delete the files in your
My Documents folder ( if you encounter problems deleting use Shift + Delete
to bypass the Recycle Bin ). You will also need to change Default File
locations in the Microsoft Office programmes you use. For Word go to Tools,
Options, File Locations, highlight Documents, click on Modify and change
file path. For Excel go to Tools, Options, General and change default file
path.

Already did that in the beginning. Long before I started loading files on
the computer. Std practice.
For Temporary Internet Files select Start, Control Panel, Internet Options,
Temporary Internet Files. Settings, Move Folder.

To move the Outlook Express Store Folder select in Outlook Express Tools,
Options, Maintenance, Store Folder, Change.
http://www.tomsterdam.com/insideoe/files/store.htm

Don't use OE, or Outlook. I use Mozilla's T-bird, and once I found that I
could choose the location for mail storage, I did it-- a few weeks ago, as
stated above.
 
G

Guest

Gerry,
again, my responses are interdigitated with yours.
You still will not see the System Volume Information folder.
How to Gain Access to the System Volume Information Folder
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;309531
Ok, I looked at, and made my settings for accessing the system restore
folder.
I can now view all contents. However, I am NOT able to delete anything. I
keep getting the "inaccessible" error.
how can I delete these?
I've got folders/restore points dating back to October.
If your hard drive is formatted as NTFS another potential gain arises with
your operating system on your C drive. In the Windows Directory of your
C partition you will have some Uninstall folders in your Windows folder
typically: $NtServicePackUninstall$ and $NtUninstallKB282010$ etc.

These files may be compressed or not compressed. If compressed the text
of the folder name appears in blue characters. If not compressed you can
compress them. Right click on each folder and select Properties, General,
Advanced and check the box before Compress contents to save Disk Space.
On the General Tab you can see the amount gained by deducting the size
on disk from the size. Folder compression is only an option on a NTFS
formatted drive / partition.

Ok, I looked at the above more closely, and see what you're talking about.
These are all blue lettering.
The next issue of interest here, and if I need to post this under another
heading, please let me know.
When I pulled this laptop out of mothballs, I partitioned the drive, as
mentioned. 1 for os(NTFS), 2 for storage(NTFS), 3 for FAT. The FAT was to be
for a future install of Linux. While this may be a bad word here, I'm a
physicist, and have a number of colleagues who find it to their liking. I
have been wanting to find out what all the hub-bub was about.
I installed the XP os, and all worked fine. I then began installing all the
various programs, and as I was looking through my drives, I saw something
that I misunderstood. Some files that were on the wrong drive. I.e., (and
while you can laugh to yourself, no comments from the peanut gallery) all of
my system files were on a drive that did not belong there. Before I shut down
to reboot, I deleted all of those files.
I later realized that in choosing for a primary drive, I made the wrong
choice. I chose the C drive to install the linux, and the D drive for the
Windows. Yea, yea, I know-- remember, no comments from the peanut gallery.
When I realized what happened, I tried just to "reinstall" over, or repair
the initial install of windows using the tool provided on the CD. I'd never
tried this before, but had often heard of it. My goal was to avoid
reinstalling the 30+ programs, that took well over 6 hours to do.
It resulted in, what I can only describe-- for a lack of correct
terminology-- what appears to be a dual set of directory files under the
documents and settings directory.
I.e.:
All users
All users.WINDOWS
Default user
Default user.WINDOWS
Local Service
Local service.NT AUTHORITY
Network Service
Network Service.NT AUTHORITY
I know that one set is from the initial install before my screw up, and the
other is from my "fix. "
As for the linux, that can be ignored for now, as it's not an issue.
In the details, it shows that the directories with the .* 'extensions' are
the fix set.
My question....
Can I remove the original set WITHOUT damaging my existing installation?
and after you finish with your laughing, please don't tell me that no one
has ever done this before.
Thanks.
 
W

Wesley Vogel

You're welcome, P D.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In
 

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