curious font problem?

[grammatim]

I gave my first PowerPoint presentation this morning, and everything
went perfectly -- the projector projected as soon as the video cable
was connected to the borrowed computer, PowerPoint Viewer worked
perfectly -- except for one thing.

I was giving examples of different languages, so I checked the option
to Download Fonts when putting it on the CD, and the Russian and
Sanskrit appeared perfectly (both part of Arial) -- but the Ge`ez
(Ethiopic) showed up as boxes! I typed it using the Taveultesoft
keyboard add-on and its font called "Ge`ez Unicode," but then I
converted it to Arial Unicode and the letterforms were intact on my
screen and on my "Handout" reference copy (9 slides per page).

Howcome the Sanskrit font downloaded properly, but the Ge`ez didn't?

 

[Guest]

From what I can find on the net, it appears this font is compatible with Word
but not PowerPoint.

 

[grammatim]

By "this font," do you mean something other than Arial Unicode? Are
the subsets of Arial considered "different fonts" for some reason?

 

[Guest]

I meant the Ge`ez Unicode.
--
Thanks,
Glenna Shaw
Microsoft PowerPoint MVP Team
http://www.pptmagic.com

 

[Troy @ TLC]

I am not certain what is meant by 'converted to unicode'...

But in general unicode fonts cannot be embedded into a PPT, so the custom
Ge'ez did not travel with the presentation. The solution would be to copy
the actual font and install onto the viewing computer.

 

[Martin Conradi]

I recently ran a conference where one speaker used their own computer. I
loaded the fonts (Meta family) which this client has used used corporately
for years and even edited the presentation in this font - all in English,
all perfectly normal. But when the show started the presentation body text
(not the headlines) appeared in Greek script.

Can anyone tell me why?

Thanks.

Martin

 

[grammatim]

Sorry, I didn't come back for a few days because the problem is behind
me ... but it wasn't "a unicode font," it was Arial Unicode, which
came with Windows XP; and the other non-roman Arial characters I used,
including Russian and Sanskrit, showed up correctly.

 

[grammatim]

I didn't say "converted to unicode," I said "converted to Arial
Unicode," i.e. did a font change, after typing the text. Arial Unicode
is a font that comes with Windows XP Pro.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

I didn't say "converted to unicode," I said "converted to Arial
Unicode," i.e. did a font change, after typing the text. Arial Unicode
is a font that comes with Windows XP Pro.

Actually, no, it doesn't. It it's an optional installable font that comes with several
versions of Office, but not with Windows.

As to why it worked after having converted to Arial Unicode ... most probably the font you
originally wasn't installed on the borrowed PC or embedded, but Arial Unicode was available,
so by making the conversion, you forced PPT to use a font that was installed and had the
needed glyphs as part of its character set.

 

[grammatim]

It did NOT work!! That's why I'm asking my question.

If Arial Unicode comes with Office rather than Windows, that's all the
more reason it should work with an Office app.

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

It did NOT work!! That's why I'm asking my question.

but then I

and I took "intact on my screen" to mean that it worked.

If Arial Unicode comes with Office rather than Windows, that's all the
more reason it should work with an Office app.

It comes with Office but, as best I recall, is NOT part of a typical install.
In other words, there's no guarantee that it'll be present on the system.

 

[grammatim]

and I took "intact on my screen" to mean that it worked.

It worked on _my own_ computer, but not on the computer that was
hosting the presentation -- even though when I made the CD, I checked
the "Download all fonts" box.

It comes with Office but, as best I recall, is NOT part of a typical install.
In other words, there's no guarantee that it'll be present on the system.

I didn't expect it to be on the host computer. Any more than I
expected Sanskrit to be on the host computer!

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

OK, let's start this over and clear up some details.

Do you mean the "Embedded fonts" checkbox? That would cause the Package for CD routine to put
copies of any embedded fonts on the CD, as I read it. In other words, if you haven't already saved
the presentation and elected to embed the fonts, it might not do anything.

, and the Russian and

Cyrillic glyphs are included in the copy of Arial here but not Sanskrit.
Are you certain it wasn't Arial Unicode?

How did you do the conversion?

and the letterforms were intact on my

Character Map and the Insert Symbol function in PPT don't list Ethiopic for either Arial or Arial
Unicode. Perhaps they're missing it, but perhaps the characters are not really in the font and PPT
has mapped Arial/Arial Unicode back to a font that *does* have the characters. When you select some
of the Ethiopic text on your PC, does the formatting bar indicate that it's in Arial Unicode?

and I took "intact on my screen" to mean that it worked.

It worked on _my own_ computer, but not on the computer that was
hosting the presentation -- even though when I made the CD, I checked
the "Download all fonts" box.

It comes with Office but, as best I recall, is NOT part of a typical install.
In other words, there's no guarantee that it'll be present on the system.

I didn't expect it to be on the host computer. Any more than I
expected Sanskrit to be on the host computer!

 

[grammatim]

OK, let's start this over and clear up some details.


Do you mean the "Embedded fonts" checkbox? That would cause the Package for CD routine to put
copies of any embedded fonts on the CD, as I read it. In other words, if you haven't already saved
the presentation and elected to embed the fonts, it might not do anything.

To quote from *Special Edition Using Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2003*
by Routledge, Grey, and Mucciolo, p. 194, "If your presentation uses
any fonts you're not positive are on the computer you'll use, click
the Embedded TrueType fonts box so that it contains a check mark.
PowerPoint packages the fonts so that your presentation is sure to
look the way you created it. CAUTION You can embed other TrueType
fonts that you install only if they aren't restricted by locense or
copyright. You'll receive an error message if you try to embed a
restricted font." I didn't get an error message (and Arial Unicode
comes with, as we've noted).

I haven't come across anything about saving a presentation in the
ordinary way that offered an option of embedding fonts, and it isn't
mentioned in the quoted paragraph, so that doesn't seem likely.

Cyrillic glyphs are included in the copy of Arial here but not Sanskrit.
Are you certain it wasn't Arial Unicode?

It WAS Arial Unicode. (By "here," do you mean the computer you're
using? If you haven't turned on the Sanskrit IME (in the Regional and
Language Options control panel), you probably won't see the Sanskrit
characters in a font display.)

How did you do the conversion?

Selected the whole line (which had Ge`ez characters and Arial roman
characters), so the box in the toolbar identifying the font was empty,
and chose Arial from the font menu; the Ge`ez characters changed shape
as the font changed, and selecting any one of them individually showed
Arial Unicode in the font identification box.

Character Map and the Insert Symbol function in PPT don't list Ethiopic for either Arial or Arial
Unicode. Perhaps they're missing it, but perhaps the characters are not really in the font and PPT
has mapped Arial/Arial Unicode back to a font that *does* have the characters. When you select some
of the Ethiopic text on your PC, does the formatting bar indicate that it's in Arial Unicode?

Yep. (Do CM and IS show characters you can't type because you haven't
installed the relevant IME? I think so, because Hebrew and Arabic
appear there -- though of course if you Insert Symbol them, the Arabic
letters don't combine into properly joined-up words.)

It worked on _my own_ computer, but not on the computer that was
hosting the presentation -- even though when I made the CD, I checked
the "Download all fonts" box.

I didn't expect it to be on the host computer. Any more than I
expected Sanskrit to be on the host computer!

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Sure does get confusing, doesn't it?

To quote from *Special Edition Using Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2003*
by Routledge, Grey, and Mucciolo, p. 194, "If your presentation uses
any fonts you're not positive are on the computer you'll use, click
the Embedded TrueType fonts box so that it contains a check mark.
PowerPoint packages the fonts so that your presentation is sure to
look the way you created it. CAUTION You can embed other TrueType
fonts that you install only if they aren't restricted by locense or
copyright. You'll receive an error message if you try to embed a
restricted font." I didn't get an error message (and Arial Unicode
comes with, as we've noted).

Fine. But that still doesn't answer the question.
There are TWO places where you can deal with fonts. We still don't know which you've chosen.

1) In the Save dialog where you can CHOOSE to embed fonts or not. That's the one the quote above refers
to, I expect, but it's not clear.

2) In Package for CD, where you have an "Embedded TrueType Fonts" checkbox. Help is a bit vague on what
this does, exactly; it may also embed the fonts or just copy them to the CD. Probably the former.

I haven't come across anything about saving a presentation in the
ordinary way that offered an option of embedding fonts, and it isn't
mentioned in the quoted paragraph, so that doesn't seem likely.

File, Save As, click Tools, then Save Options. It's been around in one form or another longer than
Package for CD. Whether that's what the paragraph refers to or not, I've no idea ... can't say w/o
seeing it in context. And it doesn't really matter, because the question is which did YOU do.

It seems, then that you've chosen the second option, yes? In the Package for CD options dialog?

My point is this: it can save a lot of confusion and back/forth messages if you describe exactly what
you've done in PPT's own terms. ex: "I chose File, Package for CD, then clicked Options and in the
Package for CD options dialog box, put a checkmark next to "Embedded Truetype Fonts".

Make sense? Read on ... more comments intertwined below.

It WAS Arial Unicode. (By "here," do you mean the computer you're
using? If you haven't turned on the Sanskrit IME (in the Regional and
Language Options control panel), you probably won't see the Sanskrit
characters in a font display.)

See below.

Selected the whole line (which had Ge`ez characters and Arial roman
characters), so the box in the toolbar identifying the font was empty,
and chose Arial from the font menu; the Ge`ez characters changed shape
as the font changed, and selecting any one of them individually showed
Arial Unicode in the font identification box.


Yep. (Do CM and IS show characters you can't type because you haven't
installed the relevant IME? I think so, because Hebrew and Arabic
appear there -- though of course if you Insert Symbol them, the Arabic
letters don't combine into properly joined-up words.)

That's the thing ... on this particular computer (what I meant above by "here") I don't have any IME or
alternate language support installed, but CM and IS both show Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic and a
host of other languages' glyphs. I can only assume that if Arial Unicode includes the glyph, it should
appear in CM, at least. I don't entirely trust IS (it may show previously inserted symbols from some
font other than the currently selected one).

So to fill in the reply to your earlier question, I'd expect to see Sanskrit in CM, if it were included
in the set of glyphs supported by Arial Unicode. It doesn't here, but does it appear in your copy of
CM? What about the Ethiopic characters?

 

[grammatim]

Sure does get confusing, doesn't it?

Only when you know _too much_! You've been dealing with PP for years,
I for, I guess, two weeks now.

I'm glad I can challenge you with a problem you probably haven't
encountered before! I imagine you mostly get the same hundred
questions over and over (which is why all those convenient url's are
available to solve them!)

vide infra

Fine. But that still doesn't answer the question.
There are TWO places where you can deal with fonts. We still don't know which you've chosen.

Yes you do. I've been telling you this happened when I packaged a
presentation onto a CD and used it in an alien computer, where
everything worked perfectly except the display of less than a dozen
characters. (That actually surprised me, because I've been to a number
of archeology talks where it took them 20 minutes to get it up and
running. Us linguists, though, usually still use paper handouts.)

1) In the Save dialog where you can CHOOSE to embed fonts or not. That's the one the quote above refers
to, I expect, but it's not clear.

No, why would I have quoted a passage to you for a process I never
engaged in?

2) In Package for CD, where you have an "Embedded TrueType Fonts" checkbox. Help is a bit vague on what
this does, exactly; it may also embed the fonts or just copy them to the CD. Probably the former.

Well, since it's labeld "Embedded" ...

File, Save As, click Tools, then Save Options. It's been around in one form or another longer than
Package for CD. Whether that's what the paragraph refers to or not, I've no idea ... can't say w/o
seeing it in context. And it doesn't really matter, because the question is which did YOU do.

Why would I even _want_ to do that, when I'm only using my own
computer? It seems like it would just make the file a lot bigger, for
no purpose. (Maybe it has to do with Web pages?)

It seems, then that you've chosen the second option, yes? In the Package for CD options dialog?
Yes.

My point is this: it can save a lot of confusion and back/forth messages if you describe exactly what
you've done in PPT's own terms. ex: "I chose File, Package for CD, then clicked Options and in the
Package for CD options dialog box, put a checkmark next to "Embedded Truetype Fonts".

That's what I said I did, even if I couldn't notate the exact steps
several days after doing it!

Make sense? Read on ... more comments intertwined below.



See below.




That's the thing ... on this particular computer (what I meant above by "here") I don't have any IME or
alternate language support installed, but CM and IS both show Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Arabic and a
host of other languages' glyphs. I can only assume that if Arial Unicode includes the glyph, it should
appear in CM, at least. I don't entirely trust IS (it may show previously inserted symbols from some
font other than the currently selected one).

So to fill in the reply to your earlier question, I'd expect to see Sanskrit in CM, if it were included
in the set of glyphs supported by Arial Unicode. It doesn't here, but does it appear in your copy of
CM? What about the Ethiopic characters?

It surprised me that I could change the font from (the one that came
with the IME) to Arial Unicode, given that Ge`ez/Ethiopic/Amharic
isn't an IME available in XP Pro. (Amharic would be the most likely
name for it, since it's the national language of Ethiopia -- or it
might be called Tigrinya, for the national language of Eritrea that
uses the same script.)

Howcome the Sanskrit font downloaded properly, but the Ge`ez didn't?-

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

I'm glad I can challenge you with a problem you probably haven't

encountered before!I imagine you mostly get the same hundred
questions over and over (which is why all those convenient url's are
available to solve them!)

That's why they call 'em Frequently Asked Questions, all right.
And yours certainly doesn't fall into that category.

That's what I said I did, even if I couldn't notate the exact steps
several days after doing it!

If it were that clear I wouldn't keep asking for clarification. Consider: If it's not worth it to you to
retrace your steps and describe them precisely, why might the rest of us here try to work our way through
ALL the possible paths you might have followed?

It surprised me that I could change the font from (the one that came
with the IME) to Arial Unicode, given that Ge`ez/Ethiopic/Amharic
isn't an IME available in XP Pro. (Amharic would be the most likely
name for it, since it's the national language of Ethiopia -- or it
might be called Tigrinya, for the national language of Eritrea that
uses the same script.)

I've checked all three names; none is available in Insert Symbol, and none is available in Regional and
Language Options.

I'd imagine that the Ethiopic IME may have extended the choices available to you, beyond just the add'l
fonts. PPT can and will sometimes use alternate fonts for certain characters even though the rest of the
text box is in a different font, and once it does that, it generally won't let you change the font easily.

In other words, it might be continuing to use the Ge`ez font for some glyphs even though you've changed the
contents of the text box to Arial Unicode.

I'd be interested to see a single slide that exhibits this problem; I might be able to dissect it a bit
better with it in front of me. If you can share one, email it to steve at-sign pptools dot com

Include in the file a screenshot of what you're seeing on your computer so I can tell what it should look
like. To do this, go to the example slide in your presentation, press Alt+PrintScreen then press Ctrl+V to
paste in the image.

 

[grammatim]

That's why they call 'em Frequently Asked Questions, all right.
And yours certainly doesn't fall into that category.



If it were that clear I wouldn't keep asking for clarification. Consider: If it's not worth it to you to
retrace your steps and describe them precisely, why might the rest of us here try to work our way through
ALL the possible paths you might have followed?

But I didn't know any of the other paths existed! (Nor do I find any
metnion of any other font-embedding anywhere else in the manual.)

I've checked all three names; none is available in Insert Symbol, and none is available in Regional and
Language Options.

The only Unicode book I have is Version 1, and it wasn't included then
(and I don't know how to find stuff at the Unicode website).

I'd imagine that the Ethiopic IME may have extended the choices available to you, beyond just the add'l
fonts. PPT can and will sometimes use alternate fonts for certain characters even though the rest of the
text box is in a different font, and once it does that, it generally won't let you change the font easily.

That doesn't seem to apply.

Ethiopic script combines consonant and vowel and the combination often
involves a modified shape, not just adding a vowel to a consonant
letter as in Sanskrit.

In other words, it might be continuing to use the Ge`ez font for some glyphs even though you've changed the
contents of the text box to Arial Unicode.

The shapes of the characters changed on-screen.

I'd be interested to see a single slide that exhibits this problem; I might be able to dissect it a bit
better with it in front of me. If you can share one, email it to steve at-sign pptools dot com

How can I send you a single slide?

Include in the file a screenshot of what you're seeing on your computer so I can tell what it should look
like. To do this, go to the example slide in your presentation, press Alt+PrintScreen then press Ctrl+V to
paste in the image.

Hmm, a file that contains both a slide and a graphic?

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

But I didn't know any of the other paths existed! (Nor do I find any
metnion of any other font-embedding anywhere else in the manual.)

And again, that's why giving an exact description of the steps taken is important.
That a third party book doesn't mention what is the more usual way of embedding fonts says more about the
technical editing than about PowerPoint.

The only Unicode book I have is Version 1, and it wasn't included then
(and I don't know how to find stuff at the Unicode website).


That doesn't seem to apply.

Ethiopic script combines consonant and vowel and the combination often
involves a modified shape, not just adding a vowel to a consonant
letter as in Sanskrit.

I don't understand how that rules out my suggestion.

The shapes of the characters changed on-screen.

Ah. Interesting.

How can I send you a single slide?

Make a copy of an existing file, then delete all the slides but the one or two you'd like to send.

Hmm, a file that contains both a slide and a graphic?

Yes. The graphic (on a different slide) will show what you're seeing on your computer regardless of what the
slide with the Ethiopic text looks like on my computer. Remember, I haven't a clue what it's *supposed* to
look like. The screen shot will show me.

 

[grammatim]

And again, that's why giving an exact description of the steps taken is important.
That a third party book doesn't mention what is the more usual way of embedding fonts says more about the
technical editing than about PowerPoint.









I don't understand how that rules out my suggestion.



Ah. Interesting.



Make a copy of an existing file, then delete all the slides but the one or two you'd like to send.



Yes. The graphic (on a different slide) will show what you're seeing on your computer regardless of what the
slide with the Ethiopic text looks like on my computer. Remember, I haven't a clue what it's *supposed* to
look like. The screen shot will show me.

Sorry it took a couple of days to get to it. Generating the new
presentation in a folder on my hard drive resulted in a new folder
containing lots of stuff besides the presentation file itself -- I
hope you didn't need that emailed as well.