Crash with Kerio Personall Firewall v2.1.5 & KB951748 in XP Pro.SP2?

A

Ant

Hi!

Is anyone else here using old KPF v2.1.5, Windows XP SP2, and with this
KB951748? If so, then are you seeing any problems like Windows Explorer
crashing randomly (e.g., ntdll.dll) when using Windows Explorer?

I uninstalled this KB update and restarted explorer.exe (it crashed
actually and I needed to reboot PC), but no crashes now so far. Hmm!

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"I don't know how good ants are at swimmin', but I'd be willing to bet
that a good fire'd get their attention." --MacGyver in Trumbo's World
episode
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: (e-mail address removed)
( ) or (e-mail address removed)
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
 
B

Big_Al

Ant said:
Hi!

Is anyone else here using old KPF v2.1.5, Windows XP SP2, and with this
KB951748? If so, then are you seeing any problems like Windows Explorer
crashing randomly (e.g., ntdll.dll) when using Windows Explorer?

I uninstalled this KB update and restarted explorer.exe (it crashed
actually and I needed to reboot PC), but no crashes now so far. Hmm!

Thank you in advance. :)

KB951748 did update a whole bunch of files involved with your internet
connection. It took down and PC with ZoneAlarm firewall, no internet
connecton, and the fix for that is to get an updated version of ZA they
released yesterday.

I've also heard that other firewall programs have had issues, but I
don't know what vendors.

But the issue with ZoneAlarm has been that the firewall latches into one
of the dll's to do its duty, and when the MS update changed the file ZA
software failed to acknowledge the change and kept using an old version.
Or that's a revised version of problem.

This is not a solution for you, but might give you some ideas. Also
there was no crash, just a failure to connect to the internet, like you
unplugged your cable. IE still seemed to work.

HTH. Al.
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

If you (1) unintall KPF v2.1.5, (2) enable the Windows Firewall, and then
(3) reinstall KB951478, does the behavior persist?
 
M

MowGreen [MVP]

Ant said:
Hi!

Is anyone else here using old KPF v2.1.5, Windows XP SP2, and with this
KB951748? If so, then are you seeing any problems like Windows Explorer
crashing randomly (e.g., ntdll.dll) when using Windows Explorer?

I uninstalled this KB update and restarted explorer.exe (it crashed
actually and I needed to reboot PC), but no crashes now so far. Hmm!

Thank you in advance. :)


The update is to the networking files of XP. Explorer may be crashing
because you may need to reset Permissions for it from within Kerio.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2008]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============
 
P

Phillip Pi

The update is to the networking files of XP. Explorer may be crashing
because you may need to reset Permissions for it from within Kerio.

Hmm, I do use the simple LAN file sharing with a Linux/Debian box
(Samba). According to
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20775245-Kerio-Personall-Firewall-v215-KB951748-Kerio-forum
.... majority didn't have problems but one did with his DNS resolution. I
wonder if Explorer is calling out even though I use hosts and my old
Netgear RT311 router (firmware from 2002 or so).
--
Phillip Pi (aka Ant)
Senior Software Quality Assurance Analyst
ISP/Symantec Online Services, Consumer Business Unit
Symantec Corporation
www.symantec.com
 
P

Phillip Pi

KB951748 did update a whole bunch of files involved with your internet
connection. It took down and PC with ZoneAlarm firewall, no internet
connecton, and the fix for that is to get an updated version of ZA they
released yesterday.

I've also heard that other firewall programs have had issues, but I
don't know what vendors.

But the issue with ZoneAlarm has been that the firewall latches into one
of the dll's to do its duty, and when the MS update changed the file ZA
software failed to acknowledge the change and kept using an old version.
Or that's a revised version of problem.

This is not a solution for you, but might give you some ideas. Also
there was no crash, just a failure to connect to the internet, like you
unplugged your cable. IE still seemed to work.

Thanks. Perhaps Explorer is doing something with DNS. I do use the
Internet and LAN file sharing with a Debian/Linux box, but I use hosts
files for lookups internally.
--
Phillip Pi
Senior Software Quality Assurance Analyst
ISP/Symantec Online Services, Consumer Business Unit
Symantec Corporation
www.symantec.com
 
P

Phillip Pi

If you (1) unintall KPF v2.1.5, (2) enable the Windows Firewall, and
then (3) reinstall KB951478, does the behavior persist?

I will try that if I get desperate. I don't like using Windows Firewall
due to missing output blockages. Hence why I use KPF.
--
Phillip Pi (aka Ant)
Senior Software Quality Assurance Analyst
ISP/Symantec Online Services, Consumer Business Unit
Symantec Corporation
www.symantec.com
 
T

Tom [Pepper] Willett

How do output blockages help you?


: I will try that if I get desperate. I don't like using Windows Firewall
: due to missing output blockages. Hence why I use KPF.
: --
: Phillip Pi (aka Ant)
: Senior Software Quality Assurance Analyst
: ISP/Symantec Online Services, Consumer Business Unit
: Symantec Corporation
: www.symantec.com
: -----------------------------------------------------
: Email: (e-mail address removed) (remove SYMC to reply by e-mail)
: -----------------------------------------------------
: Please do NOT e-mail me for technical support. DISCLAIMER: The views
: expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the
: views of my employer. Thank you.
 
G

gram pappy

Yes, running XP Pro SP2 & KPF v2.1.5.
Installed KB951748 from WU on 7/9/08 with no problems...
 
P

Phillip Pi

I like to block network programs that should be contact home or whatever.


How do output blockages help you?


: I will try that if I get desperate. I don't like using Windows Firewall
: due to missing output blockages. Hence why I use KPF.
--
Phillip Pi (aka Ant)
Senior Software Quality Assurance Analyst
ISP/Symantec Online Services, Consumer Business Unit
Symantec Corporation
www.symantec.com
 
A

Ant

Hmm, it doesn't seem like KB951748 is causing my Explorer crashes. I
just had a crash again. :(

Thanks to everyone who replied about this.


Hi!

Is anyone else here using old KPF v2.1.5, Windows XP SP2, and with this
KB951748? If so, then are you seeing any problems like Windows Explorer
crashing randomly (e.g., ntdll.dll) when using Windows Explorer?

I uninstalled this KB update and restarted explorer.exe (it crashed
actually and I needed to reboot PC), but no crashes now so far. Hmm!

Thank you in advance. :)
--
"A coconut shell full of water is a(n) sea/ocean to an ant." --Indians
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: (e-mail address removed)
( ) or (e-mail address removed)
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
 
K

Kayman

I like to block network programs that should be contact home or whatever.

Phillip Pi,
please don't take this personally but it seems your understanding in
relation to 3rd party (so-called) firewalls is very limited, to say the
least.

Your *best* option is to uninstall Kerio and activate the build-in f/w
application of WinXP!
For the average homeuser, the Windows Firewall in XP does a fantastic job
at its core mission and is really all you need if you have an 'real-time'
anti-virus program, [another firewall on your router or] other edge
protection like SeconfigXP* and practise Safe-Hex**.
The windows firewall deals with inbound protection and therefore does not
give you a false sense of security. Best of all, it doesn't implement lots
of nonsense like pretending that outbound traffic needs to be monitored.

Activate and utilize the Win XP built-in Firewall; Uncheck *all* Programs
and Services under the Exception tab.
Read through:

Understanding Windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/security/internet/sp2_wfintro.mspx

Using Windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/security/winfirewall.mspx

PFW Criticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms

At Least This Snake Oil Is Free.
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx

Deconstructing Common Security Myths.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2006/05/SecurityMyths/default.aspx
Scroll down to:
"Myth: Host-Based Firewalls Must Filter Outbound Traffic to be Safe."

Exploring the windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
"Outbound protection is security theater¡Xit¡¦s a gimmick that only gives the
impression of improving your security without doing anything that actually
does improve your security."

*In conjunction with WinXP SP2 Firewall use:
Seconfig XP 1.0
http://seconfig.sytes.net/
OR
Configuring NT-services much more secure.
http://www.ntsvcfg.de/ntsvcfg_eng.html

**Routinely practice Safe-Hex.
http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
Hundreds Click on 'Click Here to Get Infected' Ad
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2132447,00.asp

And, in future be more critical when reading advertisement driven
publications (don't get blinded by all that hype)!

Go to...
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Home-Home-Office/Sunbelt-Personal-Firewall/

....and follow all the hype created by Sunbelt's *Marketing Department*.

Still use the free Windows XP firewall?
Unfortunately, this gives you a false sense of security. It only protects
incoming traffic. But outgoing traffic, with your credit card info, social
security number, bank accounts, passwords and other confidential
information is not protected. The WinXP firewall will let it all go out.
But... SPF will block that data if you buy the FULL version! You absolutely
need a better, commercial-grade firewall.

Then read in...
Windows Personal Firewall Analysis

http://www.matousec.com/projects/wi...ysis/leak-tests-results.php#firewalls-ratings

....a more realistic view which obviously was drafted by the head of
Sunbelt's *Operations Department*.

Sunbelt Software - the vendor of Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall

2007-08-07: Here is the response we have received from this vendor:

Sunbelt Software is committed to providing the strongest possible security
products to its customers, and we will be working to correct demonstrable
issues in the Sunbelt Personal Firewall. Users can expect these and other
continuing enhancements for the Sunbelt Personal Firewall in the near
future.

However, we have some reservations about personal firewall "leak testing"
in general. While we appreciate and support the unique value of independent
security testing, we are admittedly skeptical as to just how meaningful
these leak tests really are, especially as they reflect real-world
environments.

The key assumption of "leak testing" -- namely, that it is somehow useful
to measure the outbound protection provided by personal firewalls in cases
where malware has already executed on the test box -- strikes us as a
questionable basis on which to build a security assessment. Today's malware
is so malicious and cleverly designed that it is often safest to regard PCs
as so thoroughly compromised that nothing on the box can be trusted once
the malware executes. In short, "leak testing" starts after the game is
already lost, as the malware has already gotten past the inbound firewall
protection.

Moreover, "leak testing" is predicated on the further assumption that
personal firewalls should warn users about outbound connections even when
the involved code components are not demonstrably malicious or suspicious
(as is the case with the simulator programs used for "leak testing"). In
fact, this kind of program design risks pop-up fatigue in users,
effectively lowering the overall security of the system -- the reason
developers are increasingly shunning this design for security applications.

Finally, leak testing typically relies on simulator programs, the use of
which is widely discredited among respected anti-malware researchers -- and
for good reason. Simulators simply cannot approximate the actual behavior
of real malware in real world conditions. Furthermore, when simulators are
used for anti-malware testing, the testing process is almost unavoidably
tailored to fit the limitations of simulator instead of the complexity of
real world conditions. What gets lost is a sense for how the tested
products actually perform against live, kicking malware that exhibits
behavior too complex to be captured in narrowly designed simulators.

This is pretty eye-opening as well:

Firewall LeakTesting.
Excerpts:
Leo Laporte: "So the leaktest is kind of pointless."
Steve Gibson: "Well,yes,...
Leo: "So are you saying that there's no point in doing a leaktest anymore?"
Steve: "Well, it's why I have not taken the trouble to update mine, because
you..."
Leo: "You can't test enough".
Steve: "Well, yeah.
Leo: "Right. Very interesting stuff. I guess that - my sense is, if you
can't test for leaks, a software-based firewall is kind of essentially
worthless."

Read and/or listen to the entire conversation here:
http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-105.htm
 
A

Ant

I like to block network programs that should be contact home or whatever.

Phillip Pi,
please don't take this personally but it seems your understanding in
relation to 3rd party (so-called) firewalls is very limited, to say the
least.

Your *best* option is to uninstall Kerio and activate the build-in f/w
application of WinXP!
For the average homeuser, the Windows Firewall in XP does a fantastic job
at its core mission and is really all you need if you have an 'real-time'
anti-virus program, [another firewall on your router or] other edge
protection like SeconfigXP* and practise Safe-Hex**.
The windows firewall deals with inbound protection and therefore does not
give you a false sense of security. Best of all, it doesn't implement lots
of nonsense like pretending that outbound traffic needs to be monitored.

Activate and utilize the Win XP built-in Firewall; Uncheck *all* Programs
and Services under the Exception tab.
Read through:

Understanding Windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/security/internet/sp2_wfintro.mspx

Using Windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/security/winfirewall.mspx

PFW Criticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms

At Least This Snake Oil Is Free.
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oil-is-free.aspx

Deconstructing Common Security Myths.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2006/05/SecurityMyths/default.aspx
Scroll down to:
"Myth: Host-Based Firewalls Must Filter Outbound Traffic to be Safe."

Exploring the windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/VistaFirewall/default.aspx
"Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a gimmick that only gives the
impression of improving your security without doing anything that actually
does improve your security."

*In conjunction with WinXP SP2 Firewall use:
Seconfig XP 1.0
http://seconfig.sytes.net/
OR
Configuring NT-services much more secure.
http://www.ntsvcfg.de/ntsvcfg_eng.html

**Routinely practice Safe-Hex.
http://www.claymania.com/safe-hex.html
Hundreds Click on 'Click Here to Get Infected' Ad
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2132447,00.asp

And, in future be more critical when reading advertisement driven
publications (don't get blinded by all that hype)!

Go to...
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Home-Home-Office/Sunbelt-Personal-Firewall/

...and follow all the hype created by Sunbelt's *Marketing Department*.

Still use the free Windows XP firewall?
Unfortunately, this gives you a false sense of security. It only protects
incoming traffic. But outgoing traffic, with your credit card info, social
security number, bank accounts, passwords and other confidential
information is not protected. The WinXP firewall will let it all go out.
But... SPF will block that data if you buy the FULL version! You absolutely
need a better, commercial-grade firewall.

Then read in...
Windows Personal Firewall Analysis

http://www.matousec.com/projects/wi...ysis/leak-tests-results.php#firewalls-ratings

...a more realistic view which obviously was drafted by the head of
Sunbelt's *Operations Department*.

Sunbelt Software - the vendor of Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall

2007-08-07: Here is the response we have received from this vendor:

Sunbelt Software is committed to providing the strongest possible security
products to its customers, and we will be working to correct demonstrable
issues in the Sunbelt Personal Firewall. Users can expect these and other
continuing enhancements for the Sunbelt Personal Firewall in the near
future.

However, we have some reservations about personal firewall "leak testing"
in general. While we appreciate and support the unique value of independent
security testing, we are admittedly skeptical as to just how meaningful
these leak tests really are, especially as they reflect real-world
environments.

The key assumption of "leak testing" -- namely, that it is somehow useful
to measure the outbound protection provided by personal firewalls in cases
where malware has already executed on the test box -- strikes us as a
questionable basis on which to build a security assessment. Today's malware
is so malicious and cleverly designed that it is often safest to regard PCs
as so thoroughly compromised that nothing on the box can be trusted once
the malware executes. In short, "leak testing" starts after the game is
already lost, as the malware has already gotten past the inbound firewall
protection.

Moreover, "leak testing" is predicated on the further assumption that
personal firewalls should warn users about outbound connections even when
the involved code components are not demonstrably malicious or suspicious
(as is the case with the simulator programs used for "leak testing"). In
fact, this kind of program design risks pop-up fatigue in users,
effectively lowering the overall security of the system -- the reason
developers are increasingly shunning this design for security applications.

Finally, leak testing typically relies on simulator programs, the use of
which is widely discredited among respected anti-malware researchers -- and
for good reason. Simulators simply cannot approximate the actual behavior
of real malware in real world conditions. Furthermore, when simulators are
used for anti-malware testing, the testing process is almost unavoidably
tailored to fit the limitations of simulator instead of the complexity of
real world conditions. What gets lost is a sense for how the tested
products actually perform against live, kicking malware that exhibits
behavior too complex to be captured in narrowly designed simulators.

This is pretty eye-opening as well:

Firewall LeakTesting.
Excerpts:
Leo Laporte: "So the leaktest is kind of pointless."
Steve Gibson: "Well,yes,...
Leo: "So are you saying that there's no point in doing a leaktest anymore?"
Steve: "Well, it's why I have not taken the trouble to update mine, because
you..."
Leo: "You can't test enough".
Steve: "Well, yeah.
Leo: "Right. Very interesting stuff. I guess that - my sense is, if you
can't test for leaks, a software-based firewall is kind of essentially
worthless."

Huh? I don't want some of my programs to phone home like screen savers,
SopCast's ads program (sopadver.exe), PowerDVD7, TSReader, dxdiag.exe,
etc. All the listed are phoning to somewhere (e.g., home) and it is not
needed IMO. I only needed a simple firewall to manage incoming and
outgoing (big deal for me).
--
"I am afraid that I am convinced that a community of human beings is a
far more useful thing than a community of ants, and that if the human
being is condemned and restricted to perform the same functions over and
over again, he will not even be a good ant, not to mention a good human
being." --Norbert Wiener
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: (e-mail address removed)
( ) or (e-mail address removed)
Ant is/was listening to a song on his home computer: Nirodha - Shine
like the sun (ID: 55164)
 
H

Harry Johnston [MVP]

Ant said:
Huh? I don't want some of my programs to phone home like screen savers,
SopCast's ads program (sopadver.exe), PowerDVD7, TSReader, dxdiag.exe,
etc. All the listed are phoning to somewhere (e.g., home) and it is not
needed IMO. I only needed a simple firewall to manage incoming and
outgoing (big deal for me).

Well, if that's more important to you than keeping your machine working
reliably, best wishes and good luck!

Harry.
 
A

Ant

I found the cause: CmdLineExt.dll (SecuROM context menu for Explorer)

ShellViewEx said: CmdLineContextMenu Class Yes Context Menu
SecuROM context menu for Explorer. 1,1,224,0 Sony DADC Austria
AG. No No No No No No
C:\WINDOWS\system32\CmdLineExt.dll
{F0407C3D-349C-42B9-B83E-821E31623DF9} 5/30/2005 2:36:01 PM
7/9/2008 12:37:25 AM No .exe, .vtx, exefile A 107,888


7/9/2008 12:37:25 AM matches the time I installed this and started
having problems!! This was from Command & Conquer: Kane's Wrath v1.01
update!

Crossing my fingers that no more crashes (already over an hour with two
reboots -- safe mode and normal with all stuff back except this one).
Damn these copy protections.

Lots of people have this too:
http://www.google.com/search?q=CmdLineExt.dll+explorer.exe+crash ...
Heads up for those if you ever run into this problem. :(


So basically, nothing to do with KPF, KB updates, etc.
--
"Fall in those single lines like army ants..." --unknown
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
| |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): http://aqfl.net
\ _ / Remove ANT from e-mail address: (e-mail address removed)
( ) or (e-mail address removed)
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
 

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