Corrupt NTFS Filesystem

[Bob]

Back in February 2006, I posted the following:

+++
Almost every time I reboot my Win2K/SP4 system, CHKDSK runs because
Win2K detected a "corrupt ntfs filesystem" on the boot disk. Every
once in a while I get a BSOD instead, in which case I have to move the
bad disk to D: and run CHKDSK manually from inside Win2K.

[snip]
+++

Posters on this forum made several suggestions which unfortunately did
not stop the problem. Then one day the problem went away for good - I
have never had a CHKDSK run on me or did I get a BSOD either at reboot
since. So what did I do that fixed this problem?

The only thing I can think of was I ran the latest version of Registry
Mechanic. It is extensively updated from previous versions and it must
have found something that was causing the CHKDSK/BSOD problem,
probably indirectly because most of the time there were no NTFS
errors.

I have no idea what was in the registry that was causing this problem,
only that it is gone for good.


--

"It's impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from
an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can
physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
--Winston Churchill

 

[Todd]

There is a registry setting that if it gets set will cause the system to
think that you have had a disk problem, but that will not get reset when you
run CHKDSK.

I read about it in a newsgroup, possibly this one. Maybe you can find it if
you google.

Todd

 

[Vanguard]

Back in February 2006, I posted the following:

+++
Almost every time I reboot my Win2K/SP4 system, CHKDSK runs because
Win2K detected a "corrupt ntfs filesystem" on the boot disk. Every
once in a while I get a BSOD instead, in which case I have to move the
bad disk to D: and run CHKDSK manually from inside Win2K.

[snip]
+++

Posters on this forum made several suggestions which unfortunately did
not stop the problem. Then one day the problem went away for good - I
have never had a CHKDSK run on me or did I get a BSOD either at reboot
since. So what did I do that fixed this problem?

The only thing I can think of was I ran the latest version of Registry
Mechanic. It is extensively updated from previous versions and it must
have found something that was causing the CHKDSK/BSOD problem,
probably indirectly because most of the time there were no NTFS
errors.

I have no idea what was in the registry that was causing this problem,
only that it is gone for good.

If YOU don't know what the registry cleaner utility is doing then you
should NOT use it. Registry cleaners should be used only as a
convenience, not as a replacement for expertise. You should already
know how to edit the registry, follow the dependency chains, and
determine invalid entries, especially after uninstalls. The cleaner
utility merely helps you do it more easily. It should prompt you as to
what changes it will make and YOU are the ultimate authority in deciding
to allow the change. However, most users of registry cleaners haven't a
clue how to maintain the registry and blindly let the registry cleaner
do whatever it thinks it should do. I haven't found a single registry
cleaner that won't screw up by making changes that are inappropriate.
For example, all of them will list a certain set of registry keys as
orphans (what they point to doesn't exist) but then those entries are
not valid under a normal load of Windows and are there only valid when
booted to run CheckIt. Unless YOU know whether a registry key and/or
its data items are valid then you won't know if what the registry
cleaner does is correct.

http://snipurl.com/sfma

Boobs that play around with TNT (and the registry) deserve what they
get. They are putzing around with a critical set of system files. In
fact, if your presumption is correct that a later version of Registry
Mechanic fixed a problem that an earlier version could not, you have
proven that the use of such registry cleaners is fraught with disaster
by those incompetent to maintain the registry themselves. If you are
going to play around with the registry, stop relying solely on cleaner
utilities and learn something of it yourself; otherwise, do not screw
around with the registry whether you do it or you have some limited
expertise software do it.

Did you ever let CHKDSK complete? Did it complete without errors? That
is, did you ever let Windows clear the dirty bit on the hard drive? If
it kept getting reset then perhaps you have a bad drive. Have you
checked if your hard drive maker has a diagnostic utility on their web
site? You may even be able to use diagnostic tools from other drive
makers, like Western Digital. I used to have SpinRite but lost it in a
move so all I have left is CheckIt. Getting the Registry Mechanic to
mask the problem doesn't solve the problem. It can take several passes
of CHKDSK (with the /R switch) to thoroughly test a hard drive and
discover all the weak spots. It is allowed multiple retries so it can
show sectors as good when they are marginal (i.e., if all tests fail
except the last one then the sector is still noted as okay).

Note: Problems with the registry or file system for a particular OS are
off-topic to this *hardware* group. Test your hardware outside of the
OS to determine if it is okay. CHKDSK does some hardware testing but it
is minimal and too forgiving.

 

[George Hester]

Back in February 2006, I posted the following:

+++
Almost every time I reboot my Win2K/SP4 system, CHKDSK runs because
Win2K detected a "corrupt ntfs filesystem" on the boot disk. Every
once in a while I get a BSOD instead, in which case I have to move the
bad disk to D: and run CHKDSK manually from inside Win2K.

[snip]
+++

Posters on this forum made several suggestions which unfortunately did
not stop the problem. Then one day the problem went away for good - I
have never had a CHKDSK run on me or did I get a BSOD either at reboot
since. So what did I do that fixed this problem?

The only thing I can think of was I ran the latest version of Registry
Mechanic. It is extensively updated from previous versions and it must
have found something that was causing the CHKDSK/BSOD problem,
probably indirectly because most of the time there were no NTFS
errors.

I have no idea what was in the registry that was causing this problem,
only that it is gone for good.


--

"It's impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from
an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can
physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
--Winston Churchill

There is what is called a dirty bit and this has been known not to reset
right after a chkdsk is initiated for the system drive. Regmechanic
probably set that bit back to zero. The BSOD is probably something else.
When it happens next you should see it in the Event Viewer ot just take the
time and wtite down the first two codes which is entry of why it happened.
I can tell you from that why just not what caused it. Almost always a bad
driver on the system.

 

[Bob]

There is a registry setting that if it gets set will cause the system to
think that you have had a disk problem, but that will not get reset when you
run CHKDSK.

I read about it in a newsgroup, possibly this one. Maybe you can find it if
you google.

I would not know what specifically to look for.

The problem did not happen everytime. And I could not figure out what
triggered it other than it only happened when I waited overnight to
reboot. And then there were the BSODs. When I remounted the bad disk
as D: and ran CHKDSK on it, there were errors all over the place.
Something tore up the file system.

 

[Bob]

If YOU don't know what the registry cleaner utility is doing then you
should NOT use it.

I don't know what Windows is doing - should I not run it too?

 

[Bob]

There is what is called a dirty bit and this has been known not to reset
right after a chkdsk is initiated for the system drive.

The CHKDSK problem occurred seemingly at random, but only if I
rebooted overnight.

The BSOD is probably something else.

In that case the filesystem was wrecked.

When it happens next you should see it in the Event Viewer ot just take the
time and wtite down the first two codes which is entry of why it happened.
I can tell you from that why just not what caused it. Almost always a bad
driver on the system.

I always looked at EV and all it ever said was "corrupt ntfs volume".
I did not write down the codes.

If it ever happens again, how can I use the codes to figure out what
happened?

 

[Vanguard]

I don't know what Windows is doing - should I not run it too?

Do you go replacing the camshaft in your car when you haven't a clue how
to do the job? Does that stop you from *using* your car? Do you know
how to reposition the yoke in a CRT tube to correct alignment that is
outside the electrically adjustable circuits? Does that stop you from
*using* your television? If you don't understand the tweaks for the OS
or its registry then don't go monkeying around with them. Just *use*
the OS, like you use your car and your television. If Registry Mechanic
doesn't prompt before making each change to let YOU authorize that
change, it is a very hazardous program. If it prompts you but you
haven't a clue regarding the change that it proposes, you haven't a clue
if it should make that change or not. It should ask YOU whether or not
it should make the change but you don't know anything about the
registry, yeah, like that isn't a formula for disaster. When was the
last time you used a hex editor to change the bytes in an executable
program? If you didn't know what you were doing, would you really be
surprised when the program didn't work anymore?

If you don't know what you are doing, expect disaster (and so plan on it
happening). Maybe the host you are playing with is a test host and you
don't care when you screw it up because you are using it to self-train.
However, if you are putzing around with your one and only computer or it
is a critical or important host, plan on outages from your monkeying
around with it and save disk/partition images so you can recover from
your user-induced screw ups. No, I don't know everything about Windows
and that's why I plan for disaster recovery when I screw up my host. If
I am unsure about the registry changes that I intend to make, I make a
backup of the registry or, at least, the keys that I am changing. I
"play" with my home computer because I can afford the time for the
outage and of having to recover. So go ahead and putz around with the
registry and even delegate that responsibility to some limited expertise
software if you don't mind the risk of having to recover afterward (and
actually have a means to recover).

I'm not saying to not use registry cleaners. I'm saying that YOU are
the ultimate authority in allowing the changes that the registry cleaner
proposes. If you don't understand the change, how do you know the
cleaner is making a correct change? If the registry cleaner never
prompts you on what changes it intends to make (or doesn't permit a mode
where it prompts you), get rid of that hazardous software. Most will
provide a backup so you can reverse the last changes that you made using
their software; however, if the change crashes the OS, prevents
executables from loading, or otherwise interferes with the registry
cleaner then you have no means to recover from YOUR mistake in what
actions you permitted the registry cleaner to commit and why you need a
disaster recovery plan when using registry cleaners. Yeah, I realize
that when most users say their system is ****ed up and you ask them
about backups that the typical response is they look like deer caught in
headlights at night when crossing the road.

If you are going to use registry cleaners, any of them, plan an escape
route. If you don't understand the changes that it proposes, don't
permit the changes. If you let the registry tweaker make changes
automatically (i.e., without user intervention), figure on the same odds
as with Russian roulette regarding the stability of your OS or
applications.

 

[kony]

I don't know what Windows is doing - should I not run it too?

Registry cleaners are usually not necessary. I would wonder
if you had some old device driver loading or another problem
which you still had not pinpointed. While it is good that
your problem seems to have gone away (especially since it
was such a severe resulting, losing data), it was as likely
that the registry cleaner would not have solved the problem
and would instead cause some other problems.

I suppose one way to look at it is that if you make full
backups you can fiddle with just about anything you want,
since you can then just restore the backup and be back to
where you started. It would have been useful to know
exactly what the problem was though...

 

[Vanguard]

It would have been useful to know
exactly what the problem was though...

Actually Bob could go into Registry Mechanic to see the backup it made.
Presumably if it is a decent cleanup tool, it will record what were the
settings or values before it made changes (so you can use the cleanup
tool to undo its changes). I don't use it but Bob could look in the
program to see if it tell him what changes were made. If it just does a
blind and automatic restore to that backup, that's as stupid as doing a
blind automatic cleanup. You may only want to restore some of the
changed settings, not all of them.

 

[Bob]

While it is good that
your problem seems to have gone away (especially since it
was such a severe resulting, losing data),

I did not lose any data after I figured out how to mount the BSOD
drive as D: and run CHKDSK on it. The "corrupt ntfs" errors were
always fixed by CHKDSK upon reboot. In fact most of the time there
were no errors reported by CHKDSK.

Until I can think of what else I may have done to get rid of this
problem, I am going to stick with the registry cleaner hypothesis. It
is conceivable that something was being loaded that corrupted the
filesystem and the registry cleaner found it and removed it.

 

[Bob]

Actually Bob could go into Registry Mechanic to see the backup it made.

It made a file called "Automatic Backup.rmb". I cannot open it.

 

[Vanguard]

It made a file called "Automatic Backup.rmb". I cannot open it.

If you use Notepad to look at the file, is enough of its content in
plain text so you can read it? Not sure what you mean by "cannot open
it". If you were the one that ran Registry Mechanic than its backup
output file should have the proper permissions (if you are using NTFS)
to look at the file. Does the program itself let you look at the backup
file so you can see what changes it made? Or does it only let you
select the backup file to do a blind restore? I couldn't find
documentation on their web site.

 

[Bob]

If you use Notepad to look at the file, is enough of its content in
plain text so you can read it?

That's what I tried and nothing is visible/

Not sure what you mean by "cannot open it".

Open it with an ascii editor.

If you were the one that ran Registry Mechanic

Of course I am the one who ran it - no one else touches my machine.

Does the program itself let you look at the backup
file so you can see what changes it made?
No.

Or does it only let you
select the backup file to do a blind restore?

Yes. But I have no intentions of doing that.

I did find a log which enumerates the keys that were removed.

 

[Todd]

Bob

Microsoft's name for this problem is "Chkdsk Runs Each Time That You Start
Your Computer".

They address it in:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316506

Apparently a major source of the problem is the Hewlett Packard ScanJet
5100c Scanner. Since you fixed your problem, I'm assuming you don't have
this scanner.

Another problem is "Damaged Registry Hives". This seems like the kind of
thing a registry repair utility might be able to fix.

Since your computer stopped running CHKDSK every time you booted it up after
you ran the registry utility, I'm assuming that's what happened. In general
it would be better to use a more targeted approach. I hope nothing else got
screwed up, but at this point, if everything still works my advice would be,
go and sin no more.

Todd

 

[Bob]

Microsoft's name for this problem is "Chkdsk Runs Each Time That You Start
Your Computer".

They address it in:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316506

Thanks - I have been searching all over for this. I searched the KB
for "chkdsk" but this article did not come up. I notice that it is
very new (May 4, 2006) so that must be the reason.

I notice that the article mentions XP, whereas I am running Win2K.
Apparently the registry issue is the same. Unfortunately SP4 is the
last of the Win2K SPs.

Apparently a major source of the problem is the Hewlett Packard ScanJet
5100c Scanner. Since you fixed your problem, I'm assuming you don't have
this scanner.

I have the officejet which has a scanner.

I should have known it was HP. Those people are complete idiots. The
only people worse are Sun. Their latest Java won't install, they know
the problem, but can't fix it - something to do with InstallShield.

Another problem is "Damaged Registry Hives". This seems like the kind of
thing a registry repair utility might be able to fix.

I can recall nothing I did other than run the latest upgrade version
of Registry Mechanic which the maker claims has "new improved"
scanning capabilities. Maybe it found something that the other
scanners overlooked.

I will read that article and see if the registry keys confirm.

Since your computer stopped running CHKDSK every time you booted it up after
you ran the registry utility, I'm assuming that's what happened. In general
it would be better to use a more targeted approach.

Believe me I tried. But no one, not even the certified whiz kids on
microsoft public forums, could help out. You are the first to tell me
the problem and solution.

I hope nothing else got screwed up,

Only once did a registry cleaner screw things up and I found it and
restored it and put it on the ignore list.

 

[kony]

Thanks - I have been searching all over for this. I searched the KB
for "chkdsk" but this article did not come up. I notice that it is
very new (May 4, 2006) so that must be the reason.

You didn't really have this issue though did you? I'd
though it wasn't just that chkdsk ran but you'd lost entire
partitions of data? I suppose the two could be related, but
since chkdsk would tend to run from the data loss, do we
know if it is merely coincidence that it ran in your case
too? I suppose that HP printer driver update would go a
long way towards checking, IF you still had the problem.

I notice that the article mentions XP, whereas I am running Win2K.
Apparently the registry issue is the same. Unfortunately SP4 is the
last of the Win2K SPs.

They merely released (what they have) one at a time instead
of a large package... not a big deal really, just get the
applicable patch though some people have gone and made those
patches into a pseudo-SP5, though it would have to be seen
as an evolving idea since patches were still being released.
For example,

http://www.war59312.com/win2ksp5.php

I have the officejet which has a scanner.

I should have known it was HP. Those people are complete idiots. The
only people worse are Sun. Their latest Java won't install, they know
the problem, but can't fix it - something to do with InstallShield.

Could be, but is your windows installation still mucked up
with years of stuff from NT4 and thereafter?

I can tell you that Sun Java installed fine on my Win2kSP4
systems, though I don't know if it's "today's" current
version of Java but at least less than 6 mos. old.

I can recall nothing I did other than run the latest upgrade version
of Registry Mechanic which the maker claims has "new improved"
scanning capabilities. Maybe it found something that the other
scanners overlooked.

Damaged registry hives often keep the system from booting at
all, but don't typically lose entire volumes off a HDD(s).

I will read that article and see if the registry keys confirm.


Believe me I tried. But no one, not even the certified whiz kids on
microsoft public forums, could help out. You are the first to tell me
the problem and solution.


Only once did a registry cleaner screw things up and I found it and
restored it and put it on the ignore list.

Only once? I'm wondering how often you feel the need to run
registry cleaners? IMO, it became mostly unnecessary after
the Win9x era and even then, often as much trouble as the
cleaner was worth, although I did end up fiddling with Win9x
registry, manually, more often.

 

[Vanguard]

in message

Thanks - I have been searching all over for this. I searched the KB
for "chkdsk" but this article did not come up. I notice that it is
very new (May 4, 2006) so that must be the reason.

That was when the article was last reviewed (and possibly updated), not
when it was first written. Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't leave a
history of revisions so you can see when it was first created and when
it got updated thereafter.

In case it wasn't found in your prior search, also read:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426/en-us

Is the BootExecute data item under the mentioned registry key one of
those that are listed in Registry Mechanics logfile as to what changes
it made?

You might also find the following helpful:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/160963/en-us

Just run "chkntfs /?" at the command line to see its switches. I forgot
all about that command. Must be over 4 years since I last read about
it.

I notice that the article mentions XP, whereas I am running Win2K.
Apparently the registry issue is the same. Unfortunately SP4 is the
last of the Win2K SPs.

They are all NT-based versions of Windows so the vast majority of
registry keys are the same between them.

Note: I just realized what e-mail address you are using. Interesting
idea to trap the spammers providing they don't filter it out from their
spambot harvested lists.

 

[Bob]

You didn't really have this issue though did you? I'd
though it wasn't just that chkdsk ran but you'd lost entire
partitions of data?

You have me confused with someone else.

I can tell you that Sun Java installed fine on my Win2kSP4
systems, though I don't know if it's "today's" current
version of Java but at least less than 6 mos. old.

I tried to install Java 5 a few months ago and got the same problem.
The Sun website said that it was a known problem and was being worked
on.

Damaged registry hives often keep the system from booting at
all, but don't typically lose entire volumes off a HDD(s).

Again, you are confusing me with someone else. I did not lose the
volume - I could alway recover it. Most of the time the Event Viewer
claimed that I had a "corrupt ntfs volume" - but when CHKDSK ran at
startup it reported no problems. Then I would get a BSOD every once in
a while and could recover by mounting the disk as D: and running
CHKDSK. In this case there were filesystem errors all over the place.

 

[Bob]

Note: I just realized what e-mail address you are using. Interesting
idea to trap the spammers providing they don't filter it out from their
spambot harvested lists.

I am sure they figured out how to do that. However I might just catch
one who didn't.