Copy or back up

[Geoff]

Can someone explain to me, in as simple language as possible please, the
difference between making a back up and making a copy? I wish to re-install
XP (after 18 months or so, the 'puter is constipated) and I do not
understand the subtle differences between copy and back up. Can I just copy
my items to a DVD and then transfer it all back from the DVD drive, or do I
have to go through all the complicated rigmarole of making a back up in
order to put it all back?

Thank you

 

[Guest]

Hello Geoff,
T hey pretty much mean the same thing. The hard part is breaking the
files up into groups small enough to fit onto a data cd. It dosen't take long
to fill up a data CD, especially after as long as you have waited to back up
your files. One thing you might try to help speed up your machine, is to
run the clean disc and defrag programs to dump unneeded files. If you use
this about once a month or so it will keep ypur machine running much
smoother. Try it before reinstalling your OS.
Best of luck to you,
Ron J

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Ron

Backup programs tend to save files as one compressed file which then has to
be uncompressed by the same utility.. copying files to another destination
leaves the original file structure and accessibility in tact..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Ken Blake]

In

Can someone explain to me, in as simple language as possible
please,
the difference between making a back up and making a copy? I
wish to
re-install XP (after 18 months or so, the 'puter is
constipated) and
I do not understand the subtle differences between copy and
back up. Can I just copy my items to a DVD and then transfer it
all back from
the DVD drive, or do I have to go through all the complicated
rigmarole of making a back up in order to put it all back?

Depending on what it is you want to copy (or back up), there
isn't necessarily any difference between the terms. If you're
just talking about data files, yes, you can just copy them to a
DVD and later transfer them back.

But if, for example, you wanted to make a complete image of your
hard drive--operating system, applications, and data--to protect
you against things like hard drive crashes--a simple copy
wouldn't work. You'd need to use backup software designed for
this purpose.

By the way, are you sure that you need to reinstall Windows? In
my view, it's usually a mistake. With a modicum of care, it
should never be necessary to reinstall Windows (XP or any other
version). I've run Windows 3.0, 3.1, WFWG 3.11, Windows 95,
Windows 98, Windows 2000, and Windows XP, each for the period of
time before the next version came out, and each on two machines
here. I never reinstalled any of them, and I have never had
anything more than an occasional minor problem.
It's my belief that this mistaken notion stems from the technical
support people at many of the larger OEMs. Their solution to
almost any problem they don't quickly know the answer to is
"reformat and reinstall." That's the perfect solution for them.
It gets you off the phone quickly, it almost always works, and it
doesn't require them to do any real troubleshooting (a skill that
most of them obviously don't possess in any great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You
have to restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all
your programs, you have to reinstall all the Windows and
application updates,you have to locate and install all the needed
drivers for your system, you have to recustomize Windows and all
your apps to work the way you're comfortable with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome,
you may have trouble with some of them: can you find all your
application CDs? Can you find all the needed installation codes?
Do you have data backups to restore? Do you even remember all the
customizations and tweaks you may have installed to make
everything work the way you like?

Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve
that Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and
far between; reinstallation should not be a substitute for
troubleshooting; it should be a last resort, to be done only
after all other attempts at troubleshooting by a qualified person
have failed.

If you have problems, post them here; it's likely that someone
can help you and a reinstallation won't be required.

 

[Geoff]

So, which is best?

Ron

Backup programs tend to save files as one compressed file which then has
to be uncompressed by the same utility.. copying files to another
destination leaves the original file structure and accessibility in tact..

 

[Kerry Brown]

Can someone explain to me, in as simple language as possible please, the
difference between making a back up and making a copy? I wish to
re-install XP (after 18 months or so, the 'puter is constipated) and I do
not understand the subtle differences between copy and back up. Can I
just copy my items to a DVD and then transfer it all back from the DVD
drive, or do I have to go through all the complicated rigmarole of making
a back up in order to put it all back?

Thank you

Geoff

If it is just data you wish to copy/backup then copying is fine. If it is
programs then you have to backup the windows configuration. This won't help
you with a clean reinstall of windows because when you restore your backup
you will put everything back the way it is now. It is almost impossible to
only backup and restore certain programs without restoring everything. Let
us know what you are trying to save e.g. documents, pictures, emails,
favourites, game saves etc. and someone will be able to advise you which is
the best way.

Kerry

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Geoff

If your plan is to re-install XP fresh from an XP CD, then just 'copy' any
important files to whatever medium you see fit.. after the re-install, you
can just copy them back..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Guest]

OK I see what you mean Mike but I understood him as saying what is the
difference in backing up to a cd or copying to a cd not copying to files.
Have a good one Mike!!

 

[Guest]

Hey Mike my belt must be too tight today. I understand what you meant now. I
never really thought about copy to disc and back up to disc as being
different.
Sitll though , should not Goeff try defrag, etc, before reinstalling.
His next post might read , Trouble while reinstalling". i used to say , yea
just reinstall that sucker
but that was before I found out how many people have trouble while or just
after reinstalling. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why.
Thanks for pointing me straight Mike. You will be glad to know I have
lossened my belt and opened my office window. lol Best of luck to all
Ron J





snt

 

[Geoff]

Right, thank you for your most comprehensive and understandable reply.

I have been in the habit of using clean disc, and defrag on a regular basis
usually once a week. I also have Norton running constantly as a safeguard,
Zone Alarm, Ad-Aware, Computer Cop, Pop-up-Cop amongst other things, and use
a registry cleaner to try to help things along a bit.

The 'puter seems to work well enough but is slow to respond and recently I
have been plagued with umpteen popups, popunders and all sorts of uninvited
junk, unsolicited ads, (to say nothing about 3 or 4 emails daily from some
Nigerian idiot wanting to give me millions of dollars) all of which irritate
the hell out of me. I am wondering if this may originate in some way from
my daughter's computer which is networked to mine and through which she
accesses the internet. She downloads all sorts of ghastly so called "music"
via Kazaa and from friends. Her 'puter is nearly moribund as a result.

I have a computer "whiz kid guru" friend who suggests we clean both machines
out, partition the drives and start afresh. I certainly take your point
about the trouble of having to reinstall all the bits and pieces which have
been added over the past 18 months, but as this machine is mainly a play
thing 90% of the time, I shan't be sorry if I loose some of them in the
process.

Thank you for your advice

 

[Geoff]

It breaks down into two main categories...straightforward data file such as
personal letters stored in My Documents, together with all my email
addresses and favourite links and secondly, pictures downloaded from my
digital camera source of family mementoes.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Ron

I agree with you and Ken.. XP is robust enough that it can be recovered in
the majority of cases without the need to re-install.. unlike Windows 9x/ME,
users of which are all experts in FDISK, FORMAT and SETUP
procedures/functions..

MS Backup, frequently desired by XP Home users because they have been told
to BACKUP their files, compresses and saves as one file.. this is true of
older MS Backup versions too.. the catch is that MS Backup for XP will NOT
recover a backup using MS Windows ME backup.. MS Windows ME Backup will not
recover a MS Windows 98 backup file.. MS Windows 98 Backup will not recover
an MS Windows 95 backup file..

For us Windows veterans, it doesn't take too long to realise that MS Backup
is not all that it could be.. ..

As most home users probably have a CD-RW unit, I would always advise using
CD copying software to BACKUP files (notice to Home users, for BACKUP, read
SAVE).. and when doing it, do NOT use 'packet writing' which can be a little
problematic at times..

OS/image cloning is another ballpark altogether.. use Acronis TrueImage..
www.acronis.com

Have a good one too, Ron..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/user

 

[Ken Blake]

In

Right, thank you for your most comprehensive and understandable
reply.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I have been in the habit of using clean disc, and defrag on a
regular
basis usually once a week. I also have Norton running
constantly as a
safeguard, Zone Alarm, Ad-Aware, Computer Cop, Pop-up-Cop
amongst
other things, and use a registry cleaner to try to help things
along
a bit.
The 'puter seems to work well enough but is slow to respond and
recently I have been plagued with umpteen popups, popunders and
all
sorts of uninvited junk, unsolicited ads,

Despite the software you're running, you seem to be infested with
malware. Without more information, I can't tell you why exactly
you're having those issues, but they would seem to stem form your
computing practices, and I highly doubt that reinstalling Windows
will fix them for more than a few days. My view, again, is that
you should explain your problems here in detail and get them
fixed--not just remove them, but stop them from recurring.
Reinstalling will do nothing to stop them from recurring.

(to say nothing about 3 or
4 emails daily from some Nigerian idiot wanting to give me
millions
of dollars) all of which irritate the hell out of me.

Almost all of us get those; they are just spam. Spam is another
matter. Reinstalling will do *nothing* about spam, not even for a
few minutes.

You can stop spam by using an ISP who does a good job of
filtering spam, or by installing anti-spam software.

I am wondering
if this may originate in some way from my daughter's computer
which
is networked to mine and through which she accesses the
internet. She downloads all sorts of ghastly so called "music"
via Kazaa and
from friends. Her 'puter is nearly moribund as a result.
I have a computer "whiz kid guru" friend who suggests we clean
both
machines out, partition the drives and start afresh.

It's common advice, but as you know, it's advice that I almost
always disagree with. Having heard more about your specific
situation, I disagree with it even more.

I certainly
take your point about the trouble of having to reinstall all
the bits
and pieces which have been added over the past 18 months, but
as this
machine is mainly a play thing 90% of the time, I shan't be
sorry if
I loose some of them in the process.

OK, it's your choice, not mine, and I understand. I won't be
offended if you don't take my advice.

Thank you for your advice

You're welcome again.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

It breaks down into two main categories...straightforward data
file
such as personal letters stored in My Documents, together with
all my
email addresses and favourite links and secondly, pictures
downloaded
from my digital camera source of family mementoes.

From the backup point of view, those are really a single
category. They are all data (the type of data doesn't matter) and
can all be simply copied.

 

[Geoff]

Thanks very much to all for your replies. I'll pass all this over to the
pundit and we'll go from there.

 

[Kerry Brown]

It breaks down into two main categories...straightforward data file such
as personal letters stored in My Documents, together with all my email
addresses and favourite links and secondly, pictures downloaded from my
digital camera source of family mementoes.

Thank you for your help.

Just copy the relevant files to a CD and then copy them back once you've
reinstalled windows and your programs. The address book should be exported
to a file before copying it. Email depends on what program you use. For
outlook express see this link
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;270670

If possible I'd also use a backup or disk imaging program to make a "backup"
of the system before you start. It's always possible that you forgot to copy
something vital that you only discover at a later date. If you have a backup
of everything then you could always get it back. I use ntbackup (built into
XP Pro, can be added to XP Home) and a portable USB hard drive. Ntbackup
won't work with CDRW or DVD+-RW.

Hope this helped, good luck

Kerry

 

[Geoff]

Yes, that also helped. Thank you

Just copy the relevant files to a CD and then copy them back once you've
reinstalled windows and your programs. The address book should be exported
to a file before copying it. Email depends on what program you use. For
outlook express see this link
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;270670

If possible I'd also use a backup or disk imaging program to make a
"backup" of the system before you start. It's always possible that you
forgot to copy something vital that you only discover at a later date. If
you have a backup of everything then you could always get it back. I use
ntbackup (built into XP Pro, can be added to XP Home) and a portable USB
hard drive. Ntbackup won't work with CDRW or DVD+-RW.

Hope this helped, good luck

Kerry

 

[Lester Stiefel]

Right, thank you for your most comprehensive and understandable reply.

I have been in the habit of using clean disc, and defrag on a regular basis
usually once a week. I also have Norton running constantly as a safeguard,
Zone Alarm, Ad-Aware, Computer Cop, Pop-up-Cop amongst other things, and use
a registry cleaner to try to help things along a bit.

The 'puter seems to work well enough but is slow to respond and recently I
have been plagued with umpteen popups, popunders and all sorts of uninvited
junk, unsolicited ads, (to say nothing about 3 or 4 emails daily from some
Nigerian idiot wanting to give me millions of dollars) all of which irritate
the hell out of me. I am wondering if this may originate in some way from
my daughter's computer which is networked to mine and through which she
accesses the internet. She downloads all sorts of ghastly so called "music"
via Kazaa and from friends. Her 'puter is nearly moribund as a result.

I have a computer "whiz kid guru" friend who suggests we clean both machines
out, partition the drives and start afresh. I certainly take your point
about the trouble of having to reinstall all the bits and pieces which have
been added over the past 18 months, but as this machine is mainly a play
thing 90% of the time, I shan't be sorry if I loose some of them in the
process.

Thank you for your advice

Provided you don't have much data (text files, music,
video) I'd use data copy from your "My Documents folder".
Have plenty of CDs on hand for the project. Then Reinstall
the OS from bootup and create an extra partition for the
data files. Once the OS is reinstalled and working fine.
Copy the data back to the new Drive/partition you made. Then
change a registry value set under
"HKEY_CURRENTUSER/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Explorer/"
SubKeys are ShellFolders, and UserShellFolders
Values are Personal = <DataDrive>:\My Documents
My Music = <DataDrive>:\My Documents\My Music -and-
My Pictures = <DataDrive>:\My Documents\My Pictures - and -
My Videos = <DataDrive>:\My Documents\My Videos

Under UserShellFolders You will need to make the three
strings "My Pictures, My Music, and My Videos" Then simply
open each and fill in the approprite location as above. For
Personal, delete that value and make a fixed string and fill
it in.

Simply Put - As the OS builds up more data from services and
programs in it, this will sssslllloooowwww the system way
down over time from that bloat.

It is also possible that you have an undeclared
virus/Trojan/worm/spyware of some sort try running your
tools from msconfig 'safe mode boot'. Trade out all services
except AV, spyware agents, and No 'startup apps'

 

[frogspawn]

If he has a second partition, could that partition be the "media"?
This would be faster. Also, as my CD burner software did not warn that the
disk was full, I lost all files from My Documents after the letter "s" and
only found out after the reformat. This would not have happened if I had
been smart enough to use the D drive.