Copied HD boot problem


D

Donald

I have a 2.0 GHz Gateway computer, with 512 Mb RAM, an 80 Gb Western Digital
Master HD 40 Gb free, & a 80 Gb Western Digital

Slave HD, & a 200 Gb Seagate Firewire HD, running Windows XP Pro SP-1.

I have been successfully cloning my Master HD (which boots & runs normal) to
my Slave HD for over two years every other week

(disconnecting the Slave HD from the computer at the completion of each
cloning) using Norton Ghost 3.0 that runs in DOS from

a floppy disk (part of Symantec System Works 2003). Before each cloning I
would defrag my Master HD using the Windows defrag

program with no problems. Then on 04/28/05 I defragged my Master HD using
the Symantec System Works 2003 defrag program.

After that defragging, I was unable to clone my Master Hd, receiving the
message;

"file system references disk sectors beyond the partition boundary" when
attempting to clone my Master HD.

Symantec Tech Support advised me to purchase Symantec System Works 2005
which has Ghost 9.0 that gets around this problem.

So I did. This new program does not have a cloning feature, but has HD
complete copy and backup/restore features. Symantec

Tech Support was right, I no longer get this message, however, I now have a
new problem. I copy my Master HD to my Slave HD

using Ghost 9.0, or backup using Ghost 9.0 or the Windows backup program to
my Firewire drive, then I restore to the Slave

HD, formatting it before each copy or restore. My new problem is the Slave
HD won't boot, when connected as the only HD on

the computer. In order to get it to boot I must run fdisk/mbr from a floppy
disk. Then the copied/restored HD boots & runs

normal.

Symantec Tech Support told me to run Windows defrag, CHKDSK, fdisk/mbr,
clean boot, disable/enable virtual memory, & delete

the page file on my Master HD. I did that several times with the same
results above. When Symantec Tech Support ran out of

ideas, they told me that some systems require the fdisk/mbr applied after
copy, backup/restore to get a HD to boot, nobody

knows why, not even Microsoft, but that it works. I don't accept this
explanation, because it seems to me that the Symantec

System Works 2003 defrag program somehow moved files outside the partition
boundary on my Master HD, resulting in the message

I received immediately after using it.

I have two questions after this history:

1. Except for the nightmare of formatting re-installing upgrading
everything & redoing settings on my Master HD, does anyone

have any ideas how I can restore my Master HD (which boots & runs OK) back
to a condition where copy backup/restore of it

works normally?

2. One Symantec Tech Support technician told me there is no problem having
Master Slave HD's both Windows bootable,

connected on the computer. Another Symantec Tech Support technician told me
that Master Slave HD's both Windows bootable,

connected on the computer is a disaster waiting to happen. As soon as the
copy or restore is made, that HD should

immediately be removed from the computer. Which is the correct advice?

Thanks.

Regards...Don
 
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P

Plato

Donald said:
connected on the computer. Another Symantec Tech Support technician told me
that Master Slave HD's both Windows bootable,
connected on the computer is a disaster waiting to happen. As soon as the
copy or restore is made, that HD should
immediately be removed from the computer. Which is the correct advice?


It's correct if you are cloning disks, as cloning disks is meant when
you are replacing your hard drive with another drive.

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootlist/214.htm#4
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootlist/215.htm#3
 
A

Anna

Donald said:
I have a 2.0 GHz Gateway computer, with 512 Mb RAM, an 80 Gb Western
Digital
Master HD 40 Gb free, & a 80 Gb Western Digital

Slave HD, & a 200 Gb Seagate Firewire HD, running Windows XP Pro SP-1.

I have been successfully cloning my Master HD (which boots & runs normal)
to
my Slave HD for over two years every other week

(disconnecting the Slave HD from the computer at the completion of each
cloning) using Norton Ghost 3.0 that runs in DOS from

a floppy disk (part of Symantec System Works 2003). Before each cloning I
would defrag my Master HD using the Windows defrag

program with no problems. Then on 04/28/05 I defragged my Master HD using
the Symantec System Works 2003 defrag program.

After that defragging, I was unable to clone my Master Hd, receiving the
message;

"file system references disk sectors beyond the partition boundary" when
attempting to clone my Master HD.

Symantec Tech Support advised me to purchase Symantec System Works 2005
which has Ghost 9.0 that gets around this problem.

So I did. This new program does not have a cloning feature, but has HD
complete copy and backup/restore features. Symantec

Tech Support was right, I no longer get this message, however, I now have
a
new problem. I copy my Master HD to my Slave HD

using Ghost 9.0, or backup using Ghost 9.0 or the Windows backup program
to
my Firewire drive, then I restore to the Slave

HD, formatting it before each copy or restore. My new problem is the
Slave
HD won't boot, when connected as the only HD on

the computer. In order to get it to boot I must run fdisk/mbr from a
floppy
disk. Then the copied/restored HD boots & runs

normal.

Symantec Tech Support told me to run Windows defrag, CHKDSK, fdisk/mbr,
clean boot, disable/enable virtual memory, & delete

the page file on my Master HD. I did that several times with the same
results above. When Symantec Tech Support ran out of

ideas, they told me that some systems require the fdisk/mbr applied after
copy, backup/restore to get a HD to boot, nobody

knows why, not even Microsoft, but that it works. I don't accept this
explanation, because it seems to me that the Symantec

System Works 2003 defrag program somehow moved files outside the partition
boundary on my Master HD, resulting in the message

I received immediately after using it.

I have two questions after this history:

1. Except for the nightmare of formatting re-installing upgrading
everything & redoing settings on my Master HD, does anyone

have any ideas how I can restore my Master HD (which boots & runs OK) back
to a condition where copy backup/restore of it

works normally?

2. One Symantec Tech Support technician told me there is no problem
having
Master Slave HD's both Windows bootable,

connected on the computer. Another Symantec Tech Support technician told
me
that Master Slave HD's both Windows bootable,

connected on the computer is a disaster waiting to happen. As soon as the
copy or restore is made, that HD should

immediately be removed from the computer. Which is the correct advice?

Thanks.

Regards...Don


Don:
That you've been able to use the Ghost 3.0 version all these years to
successfully clone your XP hard drives is a minor miracle in itself! There
*were* major problems with using Ghost to clone NTFS partitions prior to
their Ghost 2003 version. But all that's behind you now, so let's start
fresh.

Since you're obviously familiar with using Ghost in a DOS environment, would
you be interested in using the 2003 version which came bundled with your
Ghost 9.0 package? It's the version I've been using for the past few years
to perform disk-to-disk cloning in an XP environment. I use the Ghost 2003
bootable floppy disk (or bootable CD) that one can easily create in the
Ghost 2003 program to perform the clone, since I prefer the portability &
simplicity of that approach.

If this appeals to you, please so indicate and I'll provide you with
step-by-step instructions for creating the bootable Ghost media and
performing the disk-to-disk clone.

As to the problem, or anticipated problem, with having two connected
bootable hard drives containing the XP OS. I'm aware that over the years
Symantec has cautioned against that configuration and recommends, as one
Symantec technician has advised you, to disconnect the clone (or the source
disk if you plan to use the clone) following the cloning operation. I
suppose that all things considered, it's wise to do so. But it's certainly
an awkward thing to do when you're working with two internal HDs and you
routinely clone your working HD for backup purposes. I suppose it's another
advantage of using a USB/Firewire external HD as the recipient of your
clone. However, I have to say that in my own experience with working with
two internal HDs, I can't honestly recall *any* problems resulting from
having both bootable drives connected, but I must admit that we *usually*
work with two removable drives (a configuration I strongly recommend by the
way), so that one of the removable drives is ordinarily disconnected except
during the actual cloning operation. So, if feasible, consider equipping
your desktop computer with at least one removable HD.
Anna
 
R

Richard Urban

Answered in your earlier identical post of about 1 - 2 weeks ago.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old [email protected] :)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
R

Richard Urban

Sorry. You posted this two days ago. Please stay in the same thread for the
same problem!

Time fly's when you,re having fun.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old [email protected] :)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
D

Donald

Anna;

I have the Ghost 3.0 DOS boot disk floppy that I always have been using for
cloning. The problem, is that Ghost 3.0 won't let me clone my HD because of
the problems I stated below, that's why Symantec told me to go to Ghost 9.0
which doesn't clone, just copy/backup/restore. Now I'm just trying to get my
copied/backup/restore HD back to a normal boot, without having to launch
fdisk/mbr.

I didn't know Ghost 3.0 came bundled with Ghost 9.0. How do you unbundle
it? The Ghost 9.0 I'm using is part of Norton system Works Pro 2005. I also
didn't know you can clone to a USB/Firewire HD, I thought it had to be a
Master/Slave connection.

Hope I didn't misunderstand you. Welcome any other comments/suggestions.

Regards...Don
 
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D

Donald

Richard;

Searched my entire newsgroup & didn't find the answer from you that you
mentioned. Don't know where it is. Send again if you can.

Regards...Don
 
R

Richard Urban

Ghost 2003 (not Ghost 3.0) comes with Ghost 9.0 in the retail version. You
get a separate CD for each.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
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R

Richard Urban

This was replied to you on 6/26.

Donald,

Answers and comments on your problems!

1. I would "never" recommend Norton Speed Disk to anyone. It uses
un-documented system calls and is a disaster waiting to happen. There are
much better defragmenters on the market, PerfectDisk being one of the best.
Diskeeper is another. There is also nothing wrong with the system supplied
de-fragmenting program.

2. There are different opinions regarding backups. You have just heard a few
of them from Symantec. If you want to use the second disk for disaster
recovery it certainly "is not" a good idea to leave it permanently connected
to the system, where it can suffer from the same problems that may kill your
first drive (power spikes etc.).

Image the Windows partition/drive to an external USB 2.0/Firewire hard
drive. Then, turn off the power switch, or physically pull the power plug,
on the external drive. Unless your home burns down, you now have a protected
image of your operating system to restore from.

3. Norton Ghost 9.0 is a fine program. It's "copy" function is the
equivalent of the clone function you referenced.

4. Be certain that you create an image when your operating system is in a
known "good" condition. Remember, crap in = crap out!

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 

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