boot.ini and msconfig can't find 2nd boot partition ?


S

Saran

Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then trimmed
out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition which is
now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP boot
partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from time to time and
if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can boot from the
other one and restore the core system stuff or a whole backup if need
be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the 2nd
entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right way
to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one)
in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in
the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much easier
I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
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Advertisements

T

Timothy Daniels

Your boot.ini for the configuration of HDs that you have is correct.
That is, if the BIOS's *hard drive* boot order is "HD1, HD2, HD3",
the "rdisk" parameter in the boot.ini entry should be "2", as you
have it. Have you checked in the BIOS that the hard drive boot
order is, indeed, "HD1, HD2, HD3"? Your current controler/channel
connections would produce the order "HD1, HD2, HD3" only in the
default mode. If you used Ghost to do the cloning, did you tell it to
copy the MBR as well? Is HD3's partition #1 a Primary partition?
(If it is a "Logical Drive" in an Extended partition, it will be numbered
*after* the Primary partitions have been numbered, and it will be
partition #2.)

When you get this sorted out, and after the shift of HD3 to the 2nd
position in the hard drive boot order, i.e. "HD1, HD3", HD3 will be
referenced with the parameter "rdisk(1)" in the boot.ini file

*TimDaniels*

Saran said:
Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then trimmed
out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition which is
now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP boot
partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from time to time and
if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can boot from the
other one and restore the core system stuff or a whole backup if need
be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the 2nd
entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right way
to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one)
in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in
the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much easier
I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
J

John John

I don't think that is correct Tim. Changing the boot order in the BIOS
does not change the Arc Path of the devices and the second (Slave) hard
disc on the secondary IDE channel is rdisk(3).

John

Timothy said:
Your boot.ini for the configuration of HDs that you have is correct.
That is, if the BIOS's *hard drive* boot order is "HD1, HD2, HD3",
the "rdisk" parameter in the boot.ini entry should be "2", as you
have it. Have you checked in the BIOS that the hard drive boot
order is, indeed, "HD1, HD2, HD3"? Your current controler/channel
connections would produce the order "HD1, HD2, HD3" only in the
default mode. If you used Ghost to do the cloning, did you tell it to
copy the MBR as well? Is HD3's partition #1 a Primary partition?
(If it is a "Logical Drive" in an Extended partition, it will be numbered
*after* the Primary partitions have been numbered, and it will be
partition #2.)

When you get this sorted out, and after the shift of HD3 to the 2nd
position in the hard drive boot order, i.e. "HD1, HD3", HD3 will be
referenced with the parameter "rdisk(1)" in the boot.ini file
*TimDaniels*

Saran said:
Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then
trimmed out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition
which is now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP
boot partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from time to
time and if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can
boot from the other one and restore the core system stuff or a whole
backup if need be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the
2nd entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right
way to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one)
in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in
the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much
easier I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

When cloning an OS that is in the Win2K/NT/XP family,
don't let the clone "see" its "parent" OS when the clone
is started up for the FIRST TIME. It seems to get confused
in subtle ways (sometimes not so subtle). But after that
first startup without its "parent" visible to it, it can be started
up thereafter with its "parent" OS visible to it, and it will
consider its "parent" just data on another partition.
(The "parent" can be started up with its clone visible to
it with no problem - allowing you to modify the clone's
boot.ini file before the clone's first startup if you want.)

The easiest way to render the "parent" OS invisible to
the clone is to disconnect the "parent's" hard drive. If
the standard configuration existed in the source HD,
(with the boot files in the same partition as the OS), the
boot files will have been copied over in the cloned partition
and they will boot up the clone exactly as they had done for
the "parent" OS. Thus, to boot the clone for the first time,
you don't have to readjust the BIOS's hard drive boot order
or fiddle with the hard drives' jumpers - just disconnect
the source hard drive.

*TimDaniels*

"Saran" rapped:
Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then trimmed
out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition which is
now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP boot
partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from time to time and
if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can boot from the
other one and restore the core system stuff or a whole backup if need
be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the 2nd
entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right way
to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one)
in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in
the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much easier
I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
R

Rock

Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE controller,
as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then trimmed
out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition which is now
on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP boot partition,
where I can copy the windows folder to from time to time and if something
ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can boot from the other one and
restore the core system stuff or a whole backup if need be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the 2nd
entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi, disk,
rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right way to do
it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one) in
"HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in the
same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much easier I
think.)))


Once you get this working it will provide some backup if something damages
the working partition, however it does nothing to protect you if something
damages both drives such as a power surge, fire, theft, etc. If you haven't
already you should set up a backup solution such as a drive imaging program
to save an image of the drives to removable media such as a USB external
hard drive.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

I agree with Rock. There is another alternative, though, that provides
more convenience - a removable hard drive in what's called a "caddy"
or "mobile rack". It's just an ordinary IDE or SATA hard drive in a
tray that slides in and out of a rack that fits in a 5 1/5" expansion bay.
I've used such products made by Kingwin, and I like Kingwin's combination
of product range/selection and price and that their mobile racks are made
of aluminum (just my own preference). Check them out at their website,
http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp , and then scout Nextag, Pricewatch,
Froogle, etc. for the lowest prices. You can keep a backup clone always
in the rack for instant re-boot, and you can keep another hard drive in a
spare tray squirreled away somewhere safe. (Spare trays are available
at about half the price of the entire set.)

*TimDaniels*
 
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T

Timothy Daniels

What you say might be right for your BIOS, but for my BIOS (a Dell
branded BIOS by Phoenix Technologies) the HARD DRIVE boot
order determines the meaning of "rdisk". Notice that I never wrote
just "boot order" - which refers to DEVICE boot order, i.e. what
TYPES of devices boot first. Rather, I consistently used the term
"hard drive boot order" - which prioritizes just the hard drives for
purposes of MBR selection at boot time. In the DEFAULT case,
the hard drive boot order is:
Master, IDE ch. 0,
Slave, IDE ch. 0,
Master, IDE ch. 1,
Slave, IDE chl.1.

If there is not a hard drive in one of those slots, the slot is skipped
for purposes of hard drive priority. In the default case, "rdisk(0)"
refers to the 1st HD in the list, "rdisk(1)" refers to the 2nd HD in the
list, etc.

But if the hard drive boot order is manually changed in the BIOS by
the user (via keyboard input), the meaning of "rdisk(x)" changes, too.
The "x" will refer to the HD's slot in the new hard drive boot order.
I've spent an entire week checking this out with 3 HDs on my own
machine, and there was no variance whatsoever from that scheme.

If you choose to check out whether your own BIOS works that way,
be sure which boot.ini file you're using when booting your system.
You can identify the boot.ini file that the on-screen menu comes
from by putting the name of the HD and the partition that the boot.ini
file is in into the character string of the entries of the boot.ini file's
boot menu. Then, when the boot menu is displayed on the screen,
you will know which partition is supplying the boot menu. This can
all be set up by the still-running the "parent" OS immediately after
making a clone.

Also, if you experiment with more than one partition on each HD,
be sure which partition is marked "active". It will be the Primary
partition that is marked "active" on a HD that will provide the boot
files for the boot process. In the case of multiple HDs, each with
multiple bootable clones, the boot.ini file and it's identity can be a
real puzzle, and it's too bad that Microsoft has been so vague on
the meaning of "rdisk". All that Microsoft's documentation says is
that "rdisk" refers to the position of the hard drive on the controller
or "adapter". But clearly, that definition begs the question.

*TimDaniels*


John John said:
I don't think that is correct Tim. Changing the boot order in the BIOS
does not change the Arc Path of the devices and the second (Slave) hard
disc on the secondary IDE channel is rdisk(3).

John

Timothy said:
Your boot.ini for the configuration of HDs that you have is correct.
That is, if the BIOS's *hard drive* boot order is "HD1, HD2, HD3",
the "rdisk" parameter in the boot.ini entry should be "2", as you
have it. Have you checked in the BIOS that the hard drive boot
order is, indeed, "HD1, HD2, HD3"? Your current controler/channel
connections would produce the order "HD1, HD2, HD3" only in the
default mode. If you used Ghost to do the cloning, did you tell it to
copy the MBR as well? Is HD3's partition #1 a Primary partition?
(If it is a "Logical Drive" in an Extended partition, it will be numbered
*after* the Primary partitions have been numbered, and it will be
partition #2.)

When you get this sorted out, and after the shift of HD3 to the 2nd
position in the hard drive boot order, i.e. "HD1, HD3", HD3 will be
referenced with the parameter "rdisk(1)" in the boot.ini file
*TimDaniels*

Saran said:
Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both of
which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then
trimmed out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition
which is now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a BACKUP
boot partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from time to
time and if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD) I can
boot from the other one and restore the core system stuff or a whole
backup if need be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the
2nd entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing out
anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right
way to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new one)
in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives in
the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much
easier I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
S

Saran

On mine, it should be the standard order (Pri-M, Pri-S, Sec-M, Sec-S)

In windows disk manager,

C: = Disk 0
(old D:, now wiped) = Disk 1
I: & D: (new HD) = Disk 2

Partition Magic 8 basically shows the same, starting with 1 isntead of
0.

Which looks correct (if you discount that the DVD drive it technically
the 3rd device on the IDE chain - Secendary Master)

So for I: to be bootable (as backup) the boot.ini entry should look liek
this?

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

If so then why does moconfig say it can't find the backup one when I use
it's checker?

Is there any kind of command or program that will just list the
drives/parts in the same format (ARC) as what boot.ini uses? This would
make things so much easier as one would then be certain of what they
enter.

Also, both the 3gig I: (backup boot) and D: (which consumes the rest of
the drive) are both Primary with I: being Active. Should I make D: a
logical partition?

Timothy said:
What you say might be right for your BIOS, but for my BIOS (a Dell
branded BIOS by Phoenix Technologies) the HARD DRIVE boot
order determines the meaning of "rdisk". Notice that I never wrote
just "boot order" - which refers to DEVICE boot order, i.e. what
TYPES of devices boot first. Rather, I consistently used the term
"hard drive boot order" - which prioritizes just the hard drives for
purposes of MBR selection at boot time. In the DEFAULT case,
the hard drive boot order is:
Master, IDE ch. 0,
Slave, IDE ch. 0,
Master, IDE ch. 1,
Slave, IDE chl.1.

If there is not a hard drive in one of those slots, the slot is
skipped for purposes of hard drive priority. In the default case,
"rdisk(0)" refers to the 1st HD in the list, "rdisk(1)" refers to the
2nd HD in the list, etc.

But if the hard drive boot order is manually changed in the BIOS by
the user (via keyboard input), the meaning of "rdisk(x)" changes, too.
The "x" will refer to the HD's slot in the new hard drive boot order.
I've spent an entire week checking this out with 3 HDs on my own
machine, and there was no variance whatsoever from that scheme.

If you choose to check out whether your own BIOS works that way,
be sure which boot.ini file you're using when booting your system.
You can identify the boot.ini file that the on-screen menu comes
from by putting the name of the HD and the partition that the boot.ini
file is in into the character string of the entries of the boot.ini
file's boot menu. Then, when the boot menu is displayed on the
screen, you will know which partition is supplying the boot menu.
This can
all be set up by the still-running the "parent" OS immediately after
making a clone.

Also, if you experiment with more than one partition on each HD,
be sure which partition is marked "active". It will be the Primary
partition that is marked "active" on a HD that will provide the boot
files for the boot process. In the case of multiple HDs, each with
multiple bootable clones, the boot.ini file and it's identity can be a
real puzzle, and it's too bad that Microsoft has been so vague on
the meaning of "rdisk". All that Microsoft's documentation says is
that "rdisk" refers to the position of the hard drive on the
controller or "adapter". But clearly, that definition begs the
question.
*TimDaniels*
[...]
 
R

Rock

I agree with Rock. There is another alternative, though, that provides
more convenience - a removable hard drive in what's called a "caddy"
or "mobile rack". It's just an ordinary IDE or SATA hard drive in a
tray that slides in and out of a rack that fits in a 5 1/5" expansion bay.
I've used such products made by Kingwin, and I like Kingwin's combination
of product range/selection and price and that their mobile racks are made
of aluminum (just my own preference). Check them out at their website,
http://kingwin.com/mobileracks.asp , and then scout Nextag, Pricewatch,
Froogle, etc. for the lowest prices. You can keep a backup clone always
in the rack for instant re-boot, and you can keep another hard drive in a
spare tray squirreled away somewhere safe. (Spare trays are available
at about half the price of the entire set.)

*TimDaniels*


Yes that is a great solution if you have the extra bay.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

"Saran" rapped:
On mine, it should be the standard order (Pri-M, Pri-S, Sec-M, Sec-S)

Whaddaya mean "should"? What IS it?

In windows disk manager,

C: = Disk 0
(old D:, now wiped) = Disk 1
I: & D: (new HD) = Disk 2

Partition Magic 8 basically shows the same, starting with 1 isntead of
0.

So? What makes you think WinXP's Disk Management and
Partition Magic follow the hard drive boot order and not the
default boot order? LOOK IN THE BIOS to see for sure.

Which looks correct (if you discount that the DVD drive it technically
the 3rd device on the IDE chain - Secendary Master)

So for I: to be bootable (as backup) the boot.ini entry should look liek
this?

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

If so then why does moconfig say it can't find the backup one when
I use it's checker?


Maybe because it doesn't know where "rdisk(2)" is?
Or maybe there's no OS in the 1st partition of HD3?

Is there any kind of command or program that will just list the
drives/parts in the same format (ARC) as what boot.ini uses? This would
make things so much easier as one would then be certain of what they
enter.


I haven't found one. It seems to be a function of the BIOS
and ntlder (the boot manager), and neither Microsoft nor
Phoenix Technologies want to be explicit on this for some
reason.

Also, both the 3gig I: (backup boot) and D: (which consumes the rest of
the drive) are both Primary with I: being Active. Should I make D: a
logical partition?


There's no reason to make the data partition a Logical Drive
unless you've run out of Primary partitions (a maximum of 4
partitions are allowed on a HD, of which one may be an
Extended partition <-- which may contain "many" Logical Drives.)

I recommend that you start at the beginning, and check your
BIOS for its hard drive boot order, and proceed from there.

*TimDaniels*
Timothy said:
What you say might be right for your BIOS, but for my BIOS (a Dell
branded BIOS by Phoenix Technologies) the HARD DRIVE boot
order determines the meaning of "rdisk". Notice that I never wrote
just "boot order" - which refers to DEVICE boot order, i.e. what
TYPES of devices boot first. Rather, I consistently used the term
"hard drive boot order" - which prioritizes just the hard drives for
purposes of MBR selection at boot time. In the DEFAULT case,
the hard drive boot order is:
Master, IDE ch. 0,
Slave, IDE ch. 0,
Master, IDE ch. 1,
Slave, IDE chl.1.

If there is not a hard drive in one of those slots, the slot is
skipped for purposes of hard drive priority. In the default case,
"rdisk(0)" refers to the 1st HD in the list, "rdisk(1)" refers to the
2nd HD in the list, etc.

But if the hard drive boot order is manually changed in the BIOS by
the user (via keyboard input), the meaning of "rdisk(x)" changes, too.
The "x" will refer to the HD's slot in the new hard drive boot order.
I've spent an entire week checking this out with 3 HDs on my own
machine, and there was no variance whatsoever from that scheme.

If you choose to check out whether your own BIOS works that way,
be sure which boot.ini file you're using when booting your system.
You can identify the boot.ini file that the on-screen menu comes
from by putting the name of the HD and the partition that the boot.ini
file is in into the character string of the entries of the boot.ini
file's boot menu. Then, when the boot menu is displayed on the
screen, you will know which partition is supplying the boot menu.
This can
all be set up by the still-running the "parent" OS immediately after
making a clone.

Also, if you experiment with more than one partition on each HD,
be sure which partition is marked "active". It will be the Primary
partition that is marked "active" on a HD that will provide the boot
files for the boot process. In the case of multiple HDs, each with
multiple bootable clones, the boot.ini file and it's identity can be a
real puzzle, and it's too bad that Microsoft has been so vague on
the meaning of "rdisk". All that Microsoft's documentation says is
that "rdisk" refers to the position of the hard drive on the
controller or "adapter". But clearly, that definition begs the
question.
*TimDaniels*
[...]
 
J

John John

Well, you have a point, I would add that it depends on what is where
when you install the operating system. With cloning and moving/removing
of disks then all bets are out the window. In any case using the map
command in the Recovery Console is a good way of knowing for sure what
is what, and using the bootcfg command to rescan your disks and rebuild
the boot.ini file should for most parts fix the fixable. As for the
other parts...

John

Timothy said:
What you say might be right for your BIOS, but for my BIOS (a Dell
branded BIOS by Phoenix Technologies) the HARD DRIVE boot
order determines the meaning of "rdisk". Notice that I never wrote
just "boot order" - which refers to DEVICE boot order, i.e. what
TYPES of devices boot first. Rather, I consistently used the term
"hard drive boot order" - which prioritizes just the hard drives for
purposes of MBR selection at boot time. In the DEFAULT case,
the hard drive boot order is:
Master, IDE ch. 0,
Slave, IDE ch. 0,
Master, IDE ch. 1,
Slave, IDE chl.1.

If there is not a hard drive in one of those slots, the slot is skipped
for purposes of hard drive priority. In the default case, "rdisk(0)"
refers to the 1st HD in the list, "rdisk(1)" refers to the 2nd HD in the
list, etc.

But if the hard drive boot order is manually changed in the BIOS by
the user (via keyboard input), the meaning of "rdisk(x)" changes, too.
The "x" will refer to the HD's slot in the new hard drive boot order.
I've spent an entire week checking this out with 3 HDs on my own
machine, and there was no variance whatsoever from that scheme.

If you choose to check out whether your own BIOS works that way,
be sure which boot.ini file you're using when booting your system.
You can identify the boot.ini file that the on-screen menu comes
from by putting the name of the HD and the partition that the boot.ini
file is in into the character string of the entries of the boot.ini file's
boot menu. Then, when the boot menu is displayed on the screen,
you will know which partition is supplying the boot menu. This can
all be set up by the still-running the "parent" OS immediately after
making a clone.

Also, if you experiment with more than one partition on each HD,
be sure which partition is marked "active". It will be the Primary
partition that is marked "active" on a HD that will provide the boot
files for the boot process. In the case of multiple HDs, each with
multiple bootable clones, the boot.ini file and it's identity can be a
real puzzle, and it's too bad that Microsoft has been so vague on
the meaning of "rdisk". All that Microsoft's documentation says is
that "rdisk" refers to the position of the hard drive on the controller
or "adapter". But clearly, that definition begs the question.

*TimDaniels*


John John said:
I don't think that is correct Tim. Changing the boot order in the
BIOS does not change the Arc Path of the devices and the second
(Slave) hard disc on the secondary IDE channel is rdisk(3).

John

Timothy said:
Your boot.ini for the configuration of HDs that you have is correct.
That is, if the BIOS's *hard drive* boot order is "HD1, HD2, HD3",
the "rdisk" parameter in the boot.ini entry should be "2", as you
have it. Have you checked in the BIOS that the hard drive boot
order is, indeed, "HD1, HD2, HD3"? Your current controler/channel
connections would produce the order "HD1, HD2, HD3" only in the
default mode. If you used Ghost to do the cloning, did you tell it to
copy the MBR as well? Is HD3's partition #1 a Primary partition?
(If it is a "Logical Drive" in an Extended partition, it will be
numbered
*after* the Primary partitions have been numbered, and it will be
partition #2.)

When you get this sorted out, and after the shift of HD3 to the 2nd
position in the hard drive boot order, i.e. "HD1, HD3", HD3 will be
referenced with the parameter "rdisk(1)" in the boot.ini file
*TimDaniels*

:

Hi, I'm just installed a new hard drive, on the secondary IDE
controller, as a slave to my DVD DRIVE.

So I now have a total of 3 HDs.

I've used partition magic to clone my first HD and second HD (both
of which had just one partition on each) onto the new drive. I then
trimmed out all the unneeded fat from the cloned cloned C: partition
which is now on the new (3rd) hd, because I want to use it as a
BACKUP boot partition, where I can copy the windows folder to from
time to time and if something ever happens to the real C: (first HD)
I can boot from the other one and restore the core system stuff or a
whole backup if need be.

The problem I seem to be having is configuring my boot.ini

It seems anything I do, the checker in msconfig always barfs on the
2nd entry I make to boot.ini


[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Main)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Win XP Pro (Backup)"
/fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn


I've tried makign the backup entry

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(3)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(1)rdisk(1)partition(1)

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)

to no avail.

Basically my ssytem is like this:


HD 1 (Primary, Master) - P 1: "Drive C:" --> "(Main)"
HD 2 (Primary, Slave) - (wiped, used to be "Drive D:")
DVD (Secondary, Master) - (DVD RW)
HD 3 (Secondary, Slave) - P 1: "Drive I:" --> "(Backup)"
P 2: "Drive D:"

I: was cloned from C: and resized to a minimal size after throwing
out anything not needed from it.
D: take up the rest of the space on this new, big (third) hd.


It seems every article I come across explains the meaning of multi,
disk, rdisk, and such differently and I can't seem to find the right
way to do it so msconfig doesn't barf.

ALSO, I will soon be removing "HD 2" and will put "HD 3" (the new
one) in "HD 2"'s spot.

So I'd appreciate the corect configuration of both spots.


(((Is there no way to get a list of how the system seems the drives
in the same format as boot.ini uses? That would of made things much
easier I think.)))

Thanks for any help.
 
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T

Timothy Daniels

Good suggestion on the "map" command in the Recovery Console.
I had forgotten about that. Microsoft's documentation of the Recovery
Console says that the "map arc" version of the "map" command will
give the positions of each partition in terms of its ARC path, i.e. in the
form of the boot.ini entries. That should tell you how the system
views the positions of each partition.

As for the configuration during installation, in my experience,
whatever name that the installed OS chooses to call its own partition
will forever be what it and all its clones call the partition which contains
the running OS. Since most OSes are installed in the absence of
another already-named partition, that OS will name its own partition
"C:". Thereafter, that OS and its clones will call their own partition
(when any one of them runs) the "C:" partition. And each OS, when
it is running, will call any other partitions that it sees by some other
name, e.g. "D:" or "E:" or "F:", etc. And that re-naming will include
the partitions of OSes which are not running. Thus, the clone of an
OS which calls its own partition "C:" will also call its own partition
"C:" when it (the clone) is running, and that running clone will
rename its "parent" partition for the duration of the clone's runtime.

But this naming of partitions has nothing to do with a hard drive's
position in the hard drive boot order. The naming of partitions
has to do with the OS (and perhaps the installer), but the position
of a hard drive in the hard drive boot order remains the same
until it is changed in the BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

"John John" added:
 
S

Saran

Timothy said:
Good suggestion on the "map" command in the Recovery Console.
I had forgotten about that. Microsoft's documentation of the Recovery
Console says that the "map arc" version of the "map" command will
give the positions of each partition in terms of its ARC path, i.e.
in the form of the boot.ini entries. That should tell you how the
system views the positions of each partition.

I know oyu're talking about form within the Recovery Console, but is
there a version that you can run from within Windows?
As for the configuration during installation, in my experience,
whatever name that the installed OS chooses to call its own partition
will forever be what it and all its clones call the partition which
contains the running OS. Since most OSes are installed in the
absence of another already-named partition, that OS will name its own
partition
"C:". Thereafter, that OS and its clones will call their own
partition (when any one of them runs) the "C:" partition. And each
OS, when it is running, will call any other partitions that it sees by
some
other name, e.g. "D:" or "E:" or "F:", etc. And that re-naming will
include the partitions of OSes which are not running. Thus, the clone
of an
OS which calls its own partition "C:" will also call its own partition
"C:" when it (the clone) is running, and that running clone will
rename its "parent" partition for the duration of the clone's runtime.

But this naming of partitions has nothing to do with a hard drive's
position in the hard drive boot order. The naming of partitions
has to do with the OS (and perhaps the installer), but the position
of a hard drive in the hard drive boot order remains the same
until it is changed in the BIOS.

I find giving each partition (volume) a unique volume label to help keep
track of things if I ever find the need to bot into the backup OS
partition.

IE, the main OS partition is "Main", the 2nd HD (D:) is "Data", and the
backup OS part is "Backup", which, unless I've mised something
somewhere, should remain constant reguardless which one I boot to.
 
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T

Timothy Daniels

"Saran" responded:
I know oyu're talking about from within the Recovery Console, but is
there a version that you can run from within Windows?


I've never heard of one (but wouldn't that be nice?).


I find giving each partition (volume) a unique volume label to help keep
track of things if I ever find the need to bot into the backup OS
partition.

IE, the main OS partition is "Main", the 2nd HD (D:) is "Data", and the
backup OS part is "Backup", which, unless I've mised something
somewhere, should remain constant reguardless which one I boot to.


I've never tried anything but the name "Local Disk". Let us know
if your scheme works when you get the clone running.

*TimDaniels*
 

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