Backing Up and Restoring C drive or Cloning it

[choro]

WinXP/SP3 with all the current updates with most of my essential user
software installed

I have just got going backing up my C:\ drive onto an external HD using
Windows XP's own back-up facility.

Have had a look at Help files about how to restore everything on the back-up
file being created at this very moment should the need ever arise. Wish I
had done this before by HD packed up but still, it is better to be prepared
for the next time, I guess.

My question is this: Can I use this file to restore Windows XP and all my
other software currently installed on the C:\ drive IF and this is a big IF
my system fails completely OR if the hard disk goes kaput?

Or do I have at least to reinstall Windows XP on a new hard drive and ONLY
then would I be able restore everything else?

I can't see how I can do a restore from the external disk to which I am
backing up the C:\ drive unless Windows XP itself is running on my machine.

Or would it be better to temporarily install a slave drive and do an
identical copy i.e. to clone my C:\ drive onto that slave drive which
presumably then I can reconnect as a master drive and off I go with none
other than disconnecting the old kaput master HD and reconnecting the former
slave drive as the master drive? In the meantime the second HD which has
been cloned could be sitting in my desktop PC completely disconnected
waiting just for a reconnection as a master drive to take over!

And if this second idea of mine will work, and I don't see why it shouldn't,
what software -- commercial or freeware -- would be the most reliable and
easiest to use to clone the present C:\ drive?

Any ideas?

 

[John Doe]

WinXP/SP3 with all the current updates with most of my essential
user software installed

I have just got going backing up my C:\ drive onto an external
HD using Windows XP's own back-up facility.

Heaven forbid.

Use Macrium Reflect. If you have any problems, feel free to ask.

 

[Paul]

WinXP/SP3 with all the current updates with most of my essential user
software installed

I have just got going backing up my C:\ drive onto an external HD using
Windows XP's own back-up facility.

Have had a look at Help files about how to restore everything on the back-up
file being created at this very moment should the need ever arise. Wish I
had done this before by HD packed up but still, it is better to be prepared
for the next time, I guess.

My question is this: Can I use this file to restore Windows XP and all my
other software currently installed on the C:\ drive IF and this is a big IF
my system fails completely OR if the hard disk goes kaput?

Or do I have at least to reinstall Windows XP on a new hard drive and ONLY
then would I be able restore everything else?

I can't see how I can do a restore from the external disk to which I am
backing up the C:\ drive unless Windows XP itself is running on my machine.

Or would it be better to temporarily install a slave drive and do an
identical copy i.e. to clone my C:\ drive onto that slave drive which
presumably then I can reconnect as a master drive and off I go with none
other than disconnecting the old kaput master HD and reconnecting the former
slave drive as the master drive? In the meantime the second HD which has
been cloned could be sitting in my desktop PC completely disconnected
waiting just for a reconnection as a master drive to take over!

And if this second idea of mine will work, and I don't see why it shouldn't,
what software -- commercial or freeware -- would be the most reliable and
easiest to use to clone the present C:\ drive?

Any ideas?

The search term you want, is "Bare Metal Recovery". That is the
ability of any backup program, to be restored to a computer
where the hard drive was wiped out, and a brand new blank
hard drive has been installed in its place. The assumption is,
none of the old system remains (except some kind of backup
image stored on separate media, which you're hoping to restore
from).

http://www.backupassist.com/education/bareMetalASR.html

Apparently, the ASR thing is how the process is bootstrapped.

Other backup programs, may include a CD to boot from, in the
event of an emergency. In that case, it is possible the
backup image itself contains all necessary data to
do the restoration.

Paul

 

[Sunny]

Which is not so great.


One idea: you could use Acronis True Image Home or Casper to make an
image or a partition clone of C: to another drive. The Windows XP
backup utility is just too limited. (There is a difference between the
image and clone backup methods, however, so which one to use depends on
your needs - you can research that).

I have been using Adronis True Image (Ver 8 - 9 -11) for years
Recently upgraded to Ver 2010 on two WinXP SP3 computers, and lost the
ability to file/printer share on yhem over my LAN.
Many e-mails to Acronis and attempts to fix failed, until I un-installed
Ver 2010, and the file/printer sharing magically returned.
Other people have reported the same problem.
(Just a heads up)

 

[choro]

Heaven forbid.

Use Macrium Reflect. If you have any problems, feel free to ask.

I've seen the report generated by my first effort with Windows XP's own back
up facility and now I understand your comment "Heaven forbid". It reported
that so many files had NOT been backed up because they were in use or some
such excuse like that, that I began to wonder why MS provide such a
so-called facility in the first place.

It might however be of use to back up "My Documents" and such like but I
have written a little xcopy command which I copy from a word document and
paste at the C:\ command prompt to copy all the stuff in "My documents" to
an external HD anyway. And it does this incrementally which is perfect for
copying one's user files to an external HD. I've also got variations of this
xcopy command to xcopy user files from other directories to the external HD
too.

Having thought a bit about this problem, I have more or less come to the
conclusion that the best way out for an individual is to create a clone
partition on a slave drive and to disconnect that drive but leave it within
the desktop case in readiness for re-connecting as a Master Drive ready and
raring to go at a moment's notice should the need ever arise.

And may I just add that the need to do this at this stage while my new HD is
working perfectly because MS automatic updates caused havoc with my Windows
XP installation causing problems with ATI Catalyst and my Brother Printer
installations which I managed to solve by re-installing the full downloaded
..NET Framework 4, the latest downloaded ATI Radeon software for my graphics
card plus the downloaded Brother printer installation software. I fear that
any day new MS updates might cause other problems. Maybe I should stop
automatic updates for a while until I have cloned the HD at its present
stage.

 

[Bert Hyman]

In "Bill in Co"

One example: Acronis True Image Home (purchased in the box) comes on
its own bootable CD, so Windows XP doesn't have to be up and running.

Even if you don't buy the retail box version, the application can create
a bootable CD for you. If you've regsitered your product, you can
download a CD image from the Acronis Web site.

They even supply tools and procedures for creating bootable CDs for
systems which require special drivers to access either the internal or
external disk drives.

A nice thing about True Image is that you can create image backups that
only include the used portions of your disks, and incremental image
backups, so you're not forced to dedicate huge amounts of external
storage for your backups.

 

[Bert Hyman]

In "Sunny"

I have been using Adronis True Image (Ver 8 - 9 -11) for years
Recently upgraded to Ver 2010 on two WinXP SP3 computers, and lost the
ability to file/printer share on yhem over my LAN.
Many e-mails to Acronis and attempts to fix failed, until I un-installed
Ver 2010, and the file/printer sharing magically returned.
Other people have reported the same problem.
(Just a heads up)

I had the same problem, but the fix suggested by Acronis (and Microsoft)
fixed it right away. It involves changing the registry value for
IRPStackSize. Did you try it?

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;177078

According to the notes on Acronis' Web site the same fix applies to XP,
Vista and Windows 7.

http://kb.acronis.com/content/1554

http://forum.acronis.com/forum/3692#comment-4010

 

[John Doe]

I've seen the report generated by my first effort with Windows
XP's own back up facility and now I understand your comment
"Heaven forbid". It reported that so many files had NOT been
backed up because they were in use or some such excuse like
that, that I began to wonder why MS provide such a so-called
facility in the first place.

Microsoft utilities have always been that way. Recently Microsoft
acquired a company called Sysinternals that makes some very cool
low-level utilities. Conceivably, Microsoft could use them to do
stuff for Windows, someday.

 

[choro]

The search term you want, is "Bare Metal Recovery". That is the
ability of any backup program, to be restored to a computer
where the hard drive was wiped out, and a brand new blank
hard drive has been installed in its place. The assumption is,
none of the old system remains (except some kind of backup
image stored on separate media, which you're hoping to restore
from).

http://www.backupassist.com/education/bareMetalASR.html

Apparently, the ASR thing is how the process is bootstrapped.

Other backup programs, may include a CD to boot from, in the
event of an emergency. In that case, it is possible the
backup image itself contains all necessary data to
do the restoration.

Paul

Must bear this "Bare Metal Recovery" in mind.

Trying Macrium Reflect free version tonight and my initial reaction seems to
be very favorable indeed. It did what MS backup did in 1/5th of the time and
no hiccups either. No deed to say I have deleted the MS job to oblivion!

I have already created not one but 2 recovery CDs, the first one Linux
based.

 

[choro]

Heaven forbid.

Use Macrium Reflect. If you have any problems, feel free to ask.

Trying Macrium Reflect free version tonight and my initial reaction seems to
be very favorable indeed. The setup is extremely logical and easy to follow
and it did what MS backup did in 1/5th of the time and no hiccups either.

I have already created not one but 2 types of recovery CDs, the first one
Linux
based.

No need to say I have deleted the MS job from my external HD to oblivion!
Good riddance...

 

[John Doe]

Trying Macrium Reflect free version tonight and my initial
reaction seems to be very favorable indeed. The setup is
extremely logical and easy to follow and it did what MS backup
did in 1/5th of the time and no hiccups either.

Unfortunately the restores take many times longer than the
backups. Maybe because the backups are done from within Windows.
I suspect that the paid-for version allows doing the restores much
more quickly (maybe from within Windows, after a restart, before
reaching the desktop).

Anyway, glad I could pass that information along.

Good luck and have fun.

 

[choro]

If it is as painless and as reliable as I think it is after having used it
to make one backup, I for one wouldn't mind paying for the full paid
version. It would be well worth the money spent.

You can note the differences here...
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

 

[Daave]

Unfortunately the restores take many times longer than the
backups. Maybe because the backups are done from within Windows.
I suspect that the paid-for version allows doing the restores much
more quickly (maybe from within Windows, after a restart, before
reaching the desktop).

Or it might be the medium.

Where was the image archive stored? On an external USB hard drive
perhaps? I would imagine an eSATA hard drive with an eSATA connection
would go much quicker.

Then again, I seem to recall a restore I once did with Acronis True
Image went much quicker when I booted off a UBCD4Win CD instead of the
bootable CD that came with the retail package (which was a live Linux
environment).

 

[Dominique]

Microsoft utilities have always been that way. Recently Microsoft
acquired a company called Sysinternals that makes some very cool
low-level utilities. Conceivably, Microsoft could use them to do
stuff for Windows, someday.

They're already doing it, don't forget that XP is an old OS, there has been
a few other OS's since then.

 

[Dominique]

In "Bill in Co"


Even if you don't buy the retail box version, the application can create
a bootable CD for you. If you've regsitered your product, you can
download a CD image from the Acronis Web site.

They even supply tools and procedures for creating bootable CDs for
systems which require special drivers to access either the internal or
external disk drives.

A nice thing about True Image is that you can create image backups that
only include the used portions of your disks, and incremental image
backups, so you're not forced to dedicate huge amounts of external
storage for your backups.

You can also create a bootable CD with the free versions of True Image from
hard disk manufacturer (Seagate and Western Digital), those free versions
don't do incremental backups though.

 

[choro]

They're already doing it, don't forget that XP is an old OS, there has
been
a few other OS's since then.

Vista was a non-starter, sir! And Win 7 is quite new. And besides, I bet you
anything Win XP is currently the most widely used OS in the world. So, no
excuses please!

And I have heard that Win 7 is nothing but Win XP under a Vista like
configuration!
In other words Win 7 is just a tarted up Win XP. Well not quite but...
Please, please no excuses for any half baked extra facilities that won't do
the job properly. Better to leave it out completely and rely on 3rd party
software.

 

[Dominique]

Vista was a non-starter, sir! And Win 7 is quite new. And besides, I bet you
anything Win XP is currently the most widely used OS in the world. So, no
excuses please!

And I have heard that Win 7 is nothing but Win XP under a Vista like
configuration!
In other words Win 7 is just a tarted up Win XP. Well not quite but...
Please, please no excuses for any half baked extra facilities that won't do
the job properly. Better to leave it out completely and rely on 3rd party
software.

I am not debating the user base of XP, you said XP backup feature didn't
work, John Doe said M$ might get some utilities to work SOMEDAY, and since
he answered your comment about backup, I've answered that it works now (in
Seven at least).

I've never used Vista but I know as a fact that the disk image creation and
restoration feature of Windows 7 works.

You can use whatever you want that works, Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image
paid or free, Macrium.

XP backup is a PITA, it's been debated here many times.

There's no need to get mad and you can stop the attitude, boy.

 

[choro]

I am not debating the user base of XP, you said XP backup feature didn't
work, John Doe said M$ might get some utilities to work SOMEDAY, and since
he answered your comment about backup, I've answered that it works now (in
Seven at least).

I've never used Vista but I know as a fact that the disk image creation
and
restoration feature of Windows 7 works.

You can use whatever you want that works, Norton Ghost, Acronis True Image
paid or free, Macrium.

XP backup is a PITA, it's been debated here many times.

There's no need to get mad and you can stop the attitude, boy.

OK, ok, don't get so hot under the collar, boi!

FYI, I reset up my old desktop. new HD and a faster Net Card since I had to
open it up anyway. This is my old computer which I built myself probably
before you were born and it is still going strong. The old AMD Thunderbird
and the MSI KT3 mobo could do with more power but it still works fine. I can
even show films full screen on it but obviously multi tasking gets too much
for my poor old Thunderbird CPU and I have to disconnect the broadband
access as suddenly several programs might start downloading updates and I
don't know what else. Frankly all this can get too much for my poor old chip
and it starts crackling the sound. Tut, tut...

But guess what, I installed my printer and there comes MS along and gives me
a freebee update, BAKSHEESH, and what happens? Every time I power up my XP
Pro SP3 computer there comes along a teeny weeny window telling me that
brsvc01a has encountered a problem and needs to shut down. Would I be kind
enough to let MS know about this problem and every time I click YES! But my
printer still works. Should I pull my hair over this MS freebee update?
Should I laugh or should I cry? Frankly it is getting on my nerves. Tried
reinstalling the printer again and again -- dare I say with the latest
driver from Brother. Oh brother!.

The same story repeated over and over again but the printer still prints and
prints beautifully with no hiccups and no drama! My good old Brother
printer. It's like a good brother to me!

 

[Dominique]

"choro" <[email protected]> écrivait @newsfe18.ams2:

OK, ok, don't get so hot under the collar, boi!

FYI, I reset up my old desktop. new HD and a faster Net Card since I had to
open it up anyway. This is my old computer which I built myself probably
before you were born and it is still going strong. The old AMD Thunderbird
and the MSI KT3 mobo could do with more power but it still works fine. I can
even show films full screen on it but obviously multi tasking gets too much
for my poor old Thunderbird CPU and I have to disconnect the broadband
access as suddenly several programs might start downloading updates and I
don't know what else. Frankly all this can get too much for my poor old chip
and it starts crackling the sound. Tut, tut...

But guess what, I installed my printer and there comes MS along and gives me
a freebee update, BAKSHEESH, and what happens? Every time I power up my XP
Pro SP3 computer there comes along a teeny weeny window telling me that
brsvc01a has encountered a problem and needs to shut down. Would I be kind
enough to let MS know about this problem and every time I click YES! But my
printer still works. Should I pull my hair over this MS freebee update?
Should I laugh or should I cry? Frankly it is getting on my nerves. Tried
reinstalling the printer again and again -- dare I say with the latest
driver from Brother. Oh brother!.

The same story repeated over and over again but the printer still prints and
prints beautifully with no hiccups and no drama! My good old Brother
printer. It's like a good brother to me!

Many times on this group, it's been said not to use Windows Update for
hardware drivers but visit the hardware manufacturer site. I had bad
experience with a graphic adapter M$ driver update, after installing it,
the screen went black and I had to restore from my most recent backup
image.

I don't use automatic updates, I choose the option to get a warning when
new updates are available and I install the ones I want manually.

For your printer, maybe you could have used System Restore to a date
before the update from M$ was applied?

By the way, I bought my first computer in january 1984.