Connecting components to turn on with one switch

[Guest]

Isn't there a way to plug computer, monitor, printer, etc. to a surge
protector that allows me to just turn the on/off switch on the surge
protector to start computer?
I still have to turn on the monitor and hard drive, as well as the on switch
for the surge protector. But the printer and scanner come on automatically.

Anyone know what I am trying to say and have any suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[DL]

Don't believe so; The switch on the PC does not supply full pwr to the sys,
its a low pwr/supply switch that is only functional once full pwr is
supplied to the PC pwr supply.
In order to do what you wish you would have to by pass the switch, which may
well lead to a surge problem.
There are 'green' pwr strip devices that are switchable and ensure all pwr
to PC and peripherals are fully off (not on std by)
A couple of switches? hardly a life changing event.

 

[w_tom]

To do as requested, a computer's BIOS must have a user selectable
option for booting when power is applied. Only some computers have
this option. Once computer starts, then its video signal awakens a
sleeping monitor.

You really don't need or want that so grossly expensive and
ineffective power strip surge protector for a 'power on' switch. A
safer alternative that also costs maybe eight times less money is a
conventional power strip. Maybe $3 at Home Depot, Lowes, or Wal-Mart.
Your power strip must have a power switch and (this essential for
safety) a 15 amp circuit breaker. Once that BIOS setting is changed,
and when power strip turns on, then computer immediately powers.

Meanwhile, you do need effective surge protection. But effective
protection was never provided by a power strip. Learn about and
install one 'whole house' surge protector for disk drive, computer,
monitor, dishwasher, smoke detector, clock radio, etc. Effective
protection that also costs maybe ten times less money per protected
appliance.

Power strip costs less and does not provide these dangers found with
many times more expensive power strip protectors:
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.rbs2.com/fire.htm

Meanwhile to access BIOS options, maybe keep pressing F2, F10, F12,
or DEL key as computer powers up. See introductory first display for
hints as to how to enter BIOS option page. Or consult manufacturer's
instruction manual.

 

[V Green]

Be aware that some Epson printers do NOT retain any
settings made (print head alignment) if they are NOT powered
down with the printer's power switch (i.e. - if you use the
powerstrip method, any alignment settings you may
have made since the printer was turned on will be lost).

Some other printers only properly "park" the printhead
when shut off with their own power switch - if the printhead
is not parked on its rubber pad, it can dry out and clog.

Other hardware may also freak if you shut it
down this way - FYI.

 

[w_tom]

Any hardware must be able to lose power, then completely initialize
on power up. That means on power up, every printer's print head must
initialize to a known power up location.

However, many computer peripherals will power down (sleep) on their
own when computer power is removed. IOW printer should sleep (power
off) automatically when computer powers off as V Green suggests -
assuming printer is powered not from the common power strip switch.

Not provided is "what is the purpose?" Why is a power strip power
switch necessary when most computer peripherals (ie monitor) power down
automatically? What will this power strip switch solve?

 

[cindi valkos]

If you shut off your surge protector will you components still be protected?


Thanks,
Cindi

 

[Bob I]

From what? A hacker? Can't hack Windows if it isn't running.

 

[Dave B.]

From surges obviously. Yes they will.

From what? A hacker? Can't hack Windows if it isn't running.

 

[Tim Slattery]

If you shut off your surge protector will you components still be protected?

If you turn off the switch on the surge protector, all your components
will be shut off, of course. The protector is still guarding against
power surges hitting their power supplies.

 

[w_tom]

If you shut off your surge protector will you components still be protected?

As others asked - protection from what? There is no magic protection
from everything.

Even when power switch is off, still, computer is connected to other
AC wires. So again, what are you protecting from? Do you think a tiny
separation inside a switch will stop what three miles of sky could not?
Well that is why a $3 power strip provides as much protection as a $25
or $100 plug-in protector. So again, protection from what?

Don't forget - switch on or off - a wire connects from AC mains
directly to motherboard. Others who think a protector too far from
earth ground and too close to transistors also forget about that direct
wire connection.

Meanwhile, you do need effective surge protection. But effective
protection was never provided by a power strip. Learn about and
install one 'whole house' surge protector for disk drive, computer,
monitor, dishwasher, smoke detector, clock radio, etc. Effective
protection that also costs maybe ten times less money per protected
appliance.

'Whole house' protector costs less and does not provide these dangers
found with
many times more expensive power strip protectors:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
Somehow these devices will stop, block, or absorb surges? Somehow a
tiny little switch will stop what three miles of sky could not? That
is how power strip protectors are promoted.

 

[w_tom]

If you shut off your surge protector will you components still be protected?

As others asked - protection from what? There is no magic protection
from everything.

Even when power switch is off, still, computer is connected to other
AC wires. So again, what are you protecting from? Do you think a tiny
separation inside a switch will stop what three miles of sky could not?
Well that is why a $3 power strip provides as much protection as a $25
or $100 plug-in protector. So again, protection from what?

Don't forget - switch on or off - a wire connects from AC mains
directly to motherboard. Others who think a protector too far from
earth ground and too close to transistors also forget about that direct
wire connection.

Meanwhile, you do need effective surge protection. But effective
protection was never provided by a power strip. Learn about and
install one 'whole house' surge protector for disk drive, computer,
monitor, dishwasher, smoke detector, clock radio, etc. Effective
protection that also costs maybe ten times less money per protected
appliance.

'Whole house' protector costs less and does not provide these dangers
found with
many times more expensive power strip protectors:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
Somehow these devices will stop, block, or absorb surges? Somehow a
tiny little switch will stop what three miles of sky could not? That
is how power strip protectors are promoted.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

If you shut off your surge protector will you components still be
protected?

Most so-called surge protectors provide next to no protection, whether or
not they are powered on. These devices that cost under $10 should be though
of as no more than multi-outlet extension cords.

Real surge protectors do exist, but they cost in the neighborhood of
$75-$100US. The cheap ones are useless.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Gail:

Anyone know what I am trying to say and have any suggestions?

Been there, done that.

You need a special power strip that senses the draw of the PC and shuts down
it's other receptacles when the draw falls below an amount that you specify by
adjusting a little screw.

Mine's called "Smart Strip" and I got it here:
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/Hardware-Cable/Item/LCG1/

 

[bud--]

from everything.

Even when power switch is off, still, computer is connected to other
AC wires. So again, what are you protecting from? Do you think a tiny
separation inside a switch will stop what three miles of sky could not?
Well that is why a $3 power strip provides as much protection as a $25
or $100 plug-in protector. So again, protection from what?

The best information I have seen on surge protection is at
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf
- the title is "How to protect your house and its contents from
lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC
power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005
(theIEEE is the dominant organization of electrical and electronic
engineers in the US).

A second guide is
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
- this is the "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to
protect the appliances in your home" published by the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (the US government agency
formerly called the National Bureau of Standards) in 2001

Both guides were intended for wide distribution to the general public
to explain surges and how to protect against them. The IEEE guide was
targeted at people who have some (not much) technical background.

Both say plug-in surge suppressors are effective - that is there is a
big difference between a decent plug-in surge suppressor and a power
strip.

'Whole house' protector costs less and does not provide these dangers
found with
many times more expensive power strip protectors:

Pathetic scare tactics.

http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554

This link specifically references a new UL standard with thermal
disconnect as a fix for overheating

http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm

These links are the same. Both give guidelines for using plug-in
suppressors.
None of these links say the damaged suppressor had a UL label. None of
them say plug-in suppressors are not effective or that they should not
be used or that there is a problem under the current UL standard.

http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html

This link is for ZeroSurge, and is to push their plug-in suppressor
technology using series mode protection, which you say doesn't work.

Somehow these devices will stop, block, or absorb surges? Somehow a
tiny little switch will stop what three miles of sky could not? That
is how power strip protectors are promoted.

Anyone who can read will find the IEEE guide describes plug-in
suppressor action as CLAMPING the voltage on all wires to the common
ground at the surge suppressor. They do not stop, block, or absorb
surges.

Interconnected devices, like a computer and printer, need to
connect to the same surge protector. If a device, like a computer, has
external connections like phone or LAN, all those wires have to run
through the surge suppressor for protection. This type of suppressor is
called a surge reference equalizer (SRE) by the IEEE (also described by
the NIST). The idea is that the voltage on the signal wires, in
addition to the power wires, is clamped to the common ground at the
SRE. The voltage on the wires passing through the SRE are held to a
voltage safe to the connected device.

I agree with Dave and Tim that a plug-in surge suppressor still
protects when turned off.

bud--

 

[HeyBub]

Even when power switch is off, still, computer is connected to other
AC wires. So again, what are you protecting from? Do you think a
tiny separation inside a switch will stop what three miles of sky
could not?
Well that is why a $3 power strip provides as much protection as a $25
or $100 plug-in protector. So again, protection from what?

Nooooo. A $3 power strip contains (usually) a Metallic Oxide Varistor which
works like a reverse fuse. When a surge is detected, it shorts the hot and
neutral. Problem is, MOVs only work once (maybe twice) and, unlike a fuse,
give no indication when they have failed.

A $100 protection device (usually) does the same thing as a MOV but with
much more sophisticated electronics that will work over and over.

Meanwhile, you do need effective surge protection. But effective
protection was never provided by a power strip. Learn about and
install one 'whole house' surge protector for disk drive, computer,
monitor, dishwasher, smoke detector, clock radio, etc. Effective
protection that also costs maybe ten times less money per protected
appliance.

Agreed. A "whole house" protector (~$45 plus installation) covers all the
bases. However, redundancy is good good.

Nothing, however, will protect against a direct lightning strike. Power
surges CAN be caused by lightning striking a transmission line, but this is
extremely rare. Power companies have all sorts of installed methods to
mitigate the effects of lightning. Surges are usually caused by reclosures
of transmission lines as they automatically reset or branch around outages.

 

[w_tom]

If the $3 power strip contains an MOV, then it also must have numbers
such as let-through voltage and joules. Those numbers do not exist on
a $3.50 power strip. A $3 power strip does not contain MOVs, is
therefore not grossly undersized, and will not create a fire hazard.

Any protector that works only once (or twice) is a complete waste of
money AND provided no protection. However when selling to the naïve,
power strip protectors intentionally undersize the protector - create
smoke. Smoke promotes more $3 power strips with $0.10 parts selling
for $25 or $100 dollars. Undersizing means more sales of excessively
profitable and ineffective protectors. A protector properly sized -
that does not smoke - that remains functional after every surge - does
not get promoted by the naive.

Why do we install the 'whole house' protector? So that direct
lightning strikes do no damage. Protection earthed at the service
entrance ('whole house' protector) means protection already inside each
appliance is not overwhelmed. That 'whole house' protector is also
sufficiently sized so that surges are earthed - and protector remains
functional. Again, they are not one shot protectors. Any protector
that fails during a surge simply provides no protection.

HeyBub is welcome to detail what these "more sophisticated
electronics' inside the $100 Monster Cable protector are. They are
myths promoted only because Monster Cable is selling the same $25
protector for $100.

A lightning strike to utility wires on the street is a direct
lightning strike to household appliances. Rare? That word provides no
numbers - no useful facts. Typically, a home will suffer a destructive
surge once every eight years. Again, because this post is challenging
classic myths. The direct lightning strike to utility wires can be a
direct strike to household appliances. This threat is why an earthed
'whole house' protector is so effective and therefore why protection
inside appliances is not overwhelmed. Notice the most important aspect
of protection - earthing.

Surges caused by "reclosure of transmission lines" is so destructive
that we are trooping weekly to hardware stores to replace smoke
detectors, dimmer switches, clock radios, dishwashers, stereos, etc?
Of course not. HeyBub has again promoted myths. What he calls surges
are typically noise - made completely irrelevant by protection inside
appliances. Otherwise and suddenly, everything in the house would
suffer damage maybe once a month. But again, HeyBub is promoting
classic myths. If he was correct, then all those appliances such as
microwave oven fail as utility reclousures modify the power grid.
Obviously, HeyBub is not correct.

What defines each layer of protection? Earth ground. A 'whole
house' protector is earthed to a building's post-1990 earth ground.
That is secondary protection. Each protection 'system' - each layer -
is defined by its most critical component - earth ground. Not safety
ground as found in each three prong AC wall receptacle. Earth ground.
A primary protection system also must have earth ground and also
requires homeowner inspection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Many homes have not been upgraded to post 1990 earthing requirements
and have no 'whole house' protector. Therefore a secondary protection
layer does not exist. Clearly those homes are suffering appliance
damage every month from "reclosure of transmission" lines"? Of course
not. Earth transients that are typically more destructive - lightning.
Earthing - not a protector - being the most critical component of a
protection system. Earthing a 'whole house' protector so that every
thing inside a building has protection.

IEEE does not make their recommendations in booklets.
Recommendations are made in standards. What is the most critical
component is any protection system according to IEEE? Earthing. From
IEEE Red Book (Standard 141) :

In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the
process of interception of lightning produced surges,
diverting them to ground, and by altering their
associated wave shapes.

From IEEE Green Book (Standard 142) entitled 'Static and Lightning
Protection Grounding' :

Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or
diverted to a path which will, if well designed and constructed,
not result in damage.

Surge cannot be prevented by a tiny open switch or stopped by a
plug-in protector. That protector has no earth ground. Earthing is
provided in a primary protection system (see above pictures) and in a
homeowner's secondary protection system ('whole house' protector).
An effective protector 1) earths a surge before it can enter the
building, and 2) remains functional after a surge. Myths are
widespread by those who did not even read the numbers or claim a
protector is a sacrificial device. Nonsense. If HeyBub was right,
then according to HeyBub, we are replacing 'smoked' plug-in protectors
every month due to "reclosures of transmission lines". Obviously that
does not happen. We install protection from direct lightning strikes.
Any other surges are made irrelevant by earthed protectors properly
sized for lightning.

Obviously, that tiny switch inside a power strip does not stop
surges. Obviously, a power strip protector, even with power switch
off, can even connect a surge directly into computer's motherboard on a
wire that is not and cannot be disconnected.

 

[bud--]

Any protector that works only once (or twice) is a complete waste of
money AND provided no protection. However when selling to the naïve,
power strip protectors intentionally undersize the protector - create
smoke. Smoke promotes more $3 power strips with $0.10 parts selling
for $25 or $100 dollars. Undersizing means more sales of excessively
profitable and ineffective protectors. A protector properly sized -
that does not smoke - that remains functional after every surge - does
not get promoted by the naive.

Plug-in protectors may be undersized because they are cheaper - some
people buy cheap. Selling cheap crap is not confined to surge
protectors. The easy solution is to buy protectors that are of adequate
size.

IEEE does not make their recommendations in booklets.
Recommendations are made in standards. What is the most critical
component is any protection system according to IEEE? Earthing. From
IEEE Red Book (Standard 141) :
From IEEE Green Book (Standard 142)

The IEEE would certainly not publish a guide to the general public that
is not consistent with the color books. The IEEE guide says plug-in
suppressors are effective.

Surge cannot be prevented by a tiny open switch or stopped by a
plug-in protector.

To the contrary, the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in surge suppressors
are effective.

That protector has no earth ground.

Your religious views about earthing are not relevant. The IEEE guide
clearly describes plug-in suppressors as CLAMPING the voltage on all
wires to the common ground at the protector. Earthing is described as
secondary.
All MOVs work by clamping the voltage across them, like a bidirectional
Zenier diode. They don't act like a fuse or act as a short. But
clamping the voltage can produce a very high current

MOVs have an energy rating. If they absorb their rated energy in a
single surge they start conducting at a lower voltage and are
considered to be at end of life. Protectors should use MOVs with an
energy rating much higher than the likely energy they will absorb in a
single hit. The higher the rating in relation to the energy per event
the higher the cumulative energy they can absorb.

Far as I know the common failure mode is conducting at a lower voltage
than they should. This is likely to produce thermal runaway and
protective devices in surge protectors disconnect them. A protector is
likely to have a pilot light to indicate the MOV is disconnected. Or
the IEEE guide discusses at some length that the protected load can be
connected across the MOV resulting in the load being disconnected when
the MOV fails.

bud--

 

[w_tom]

Plug-in protectors may be undersized because they are cheaper - some
people buy cheap. Selling cheap crap is not confined to surge
protectors. The easy solution is to buy protectors that are of adequate
size. ...

Plug-in protectors that are undersized also cost tens of times more
money per protected appliance. Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10
components. Sells for $25 or $100. This undersized protector is
cheaper? Of course not. An ineffective protector that is undersized
and grossly overpriced. A protector that does not even claim to
protect from the typically destructive surge. A protector sold on hype
and myths - grossly overpriced - and ineffective. When protectors are
grossly undersized:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html

Some would have us believe that silly little power strip protector
will somehow stop what three miles of sky could not. Effective
protectors don't try to stop or absorb surges. Effective protectors,
instead, shunt a surge to earth. Effective protection that is properly
sized, safely located, AND that is properly earthed.

An open switch may interrupt 120 volts but does not stop thousands of
volts from a surge. Effective protection earths surges (where utility
enter the building) so that protection inside electronics is not
overwhelmed. Effective protection does not add some $0.10 parts and
then sell for $25 or $100. Some might call that grossly undersize
protector cheap. Effective 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per
protected appliance - costing tens of times less money.

 

[bud--]

Plug-in protectors that are undersized also cost tens of times more
money per protected appliance. Take a $3 power strip. Add some $0.10
components. Sells for $25 or $100. This undersized protector is
cheaper? Of course not. An ineffective protector that is undersized
and grossly overpriced.

So, as in other areas, don' but cheap crap. And get protectors that are
UL listed.

A protector that does not even claim to
protect from the typically destructive surge.

The IEEE and NIST both say plug-in surge protectors are effective.

When protectors are
grossly undersized:

the pathetic horroro pictures.

http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554

For anyone who can read, this link specifically references the new UL
standard which requires a thermal disconnect for overheating MOVs.

http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm

The 2nd and 3rd links are the same. Both give guidelines for using
plug-in suppressors

None of these links say the damaged suppressor had a UL label. None of
them say plug-in suppressors are not effective or that they should not
be used or that there is a problem under the current UL standard.

http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html

This link is for ZeroSurge, and is to push their plug-in suppressor
technology using series mode protection, which you say doesn't work.

Some would have us believe that silly little power strip protector
will somehow stop what three miles of sky could not.

Among those are the IEEE and NIST.

Effective
protectors don't try to stop or absorb surges. Effective protectors,
instead, shunt a surge to earth. Effective protection that is properly
sized, safely located, AND that is properly earthed.

For anyone who can read the IEEE guide clearly describes plug-in
suppressor action as primarily CLAMPING the voltage on all wires to the
common ground at the surge suppressor. They do not stop or absorb
surges and do not work primarily by earthing. Your reading disibility
is unfortunate.

An open switch may interrupt 120 volts but does not stop thousands of
volts from a surge. Effective protection earths surges (where utility
enter the building) so that protection inside electronics is not
overwhelmed.

At about 6000 volts there will be arc-over in panels or receptacles
(US) dissipating much of the surge energy if the voltage gets that
high,.
The IEEE and NIST guides clearly say that plug-in suppressors are
effective.
Links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are effective: 2
Your links to sites that say plug-in suppressors are not effective: 0

bud--

 

[w_tom]

So, as in other areas, don' but cheap crap. And get protectors that are
UL listed. ...

Protectors that are UL protected created problems demonstrated by
scary pictures:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html

Plug-in protector fire problem was so serious 20+ years ago that UL
created standards for backup protection. Undersized protectors -
completely dependent only on backup safety protection - can still fail.
See those scary pictures.

Just another reason why effective protectors are located at the
service entrance, are sufficiently sized, and have that all so
essential earthing connection. Just another reason why the $3.50 power
strip (with that essential15 amp circuit breaker) is the preferred
power strip.

Meanwhile, lurkers are invited to review Figure 8 in Bud's citation.
TVs are damaged due to a plug-in protector and defective earthing.
Bud's IEEE paper warns about how plug-in protectors can even contribute
to adjacent TV damage. TVs at 8000+ volts are damaged. Plug-in
protector in figure 8 (even with UL approval and without earthing)
contributes to TV damage. Just another reason why protectors are best
located at the service entrance.

IEEE does not make recommendation in Bud's papers. IEEE makes
recommendations in standards. Standard contradict what Bud claims:
IEEE Red Book (Std 141):

In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the
process of interception of lightning produced surges,
diverting them to ground, and by altering their
associated wave shapes.

IEEE Green Book (IEEE 142) entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection
Grounding':

Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or
diverted to a path which will, if well designed and constructed,
not result in damage.

No earth ground means no effective protection. Even an open switch
will not stop or block such surges. In direct contradiction to what
Bud posts - IEEE recommends the most critical component in any
protection system - earth ground. What can make that earthing
connection? A 'whole house' protector - a solution that costs tens of
times less money.

Effective solutions are sold in Lowes, Home Depot, and electrical
supply houses. Effective protectors have never been seen in Radio
Shack, Kmart, Circuit City, Sears, Staples, Best Buy, or the grocery
store.