Computer freezes

[Bill Eversole]

Hi,

I built a computer recently--Celeron 2.4D CPU, 256 MB Kingston DDR 333 RAM,
AOpen MX4GVR-GN MOTHERBOARD, WESTERN DIGITAL WD400JB 40GB 7200RPM 8MB Hard
Drive, ASUS CD-S520 BLACK 52X CD-ROM DRIVE, WindowsXP Home SP2.

It freezes up every day--usually when it is idle--no programs running. The
operator comes back and just finds the mouse pointer frozen. The hard drive
activity light is solid red when this condition is found. When the computer
is restarted with the reset button, it sometimes freezes at "Detecting IDE
drives" in CMOS...other times it freezes at the Windows XP splash screen.

Everything is set to "never" in power scheme options. Western Digital
Diagnostics reports no problems with hard drive.

Thanks in advance for any diagnostic suggestions.

Bill







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[Dave C.]

Hi,

I built a computer recently--Celeron 2.4D CPU, 256 MB Kingston DDR 333
RAM, AOpen MX4GVR-GN MOTHERBOARD, WESTERN DIGITAL WD400JB 40GB 7200RPM 8MB
Hard Drive, ASUS CD-S520 BLACK 52X CD-ROM DRIVE, WindowsXP Home SP2.

It freezes up every day--usually when it is idle--no programs running.
The operator comes back and just finds the mouse pointer frozen. The hard
drive activity light is solid red when this condition is found. When the
computer is restarted with the reset button, it sometimes freezes at
"Detecting IDE drives" in CMOS...other times it freezes at the Windows XP
splash screen.

Everything is set to "never" in power scheme options. Western Digital
Diagnostics reports no problems with hard drive.

Thanks in advance for any diagnostic suggestions.

Bill

Change the power supply. Make sure the replacement is a good name brand
like seasonic, enlight, fortron or antec. -Dave

 

[Mac Cool]

Bill Eversole:

It freezes up every day--usually when it is idle--no programs
running. The operator comes back and just finds the mouse pointer
frozen. The hard drive activity light is solid red when this
condition is found. When the computer is restarted with the reset
button, it sometimes freezes at "Detecting IDE drives" in
CMOS...other times it freezes at the Windows XP splash screen.

I have had this problem before and it was bad memory. Bad memory isn't the
only thing that can cause erratic behavior but it's the place I would
start.
http://www.pcguide.com/ts/gen/diagIntermittent-c.html

 

[w_tom]

Replace this. Replace that. Replace the other thing.
Before you finally find a problem, you have replaced over half
the machine but still don't have enough parts to build a
second. It is called shotgunning. It is recommended by those
who never first learned basic principles.

You start by first collecting facts. XP stores or reports
important facts in Device Manger and in the system (event)
logs. What do those report?

The foundation of any structure must be verified before
trying to fix that structure. A computer's foundation is its
power supply. Do not replace the supply on a whim (as others
suggest). Get the 3.5 digit multimeter to verify all critical
voltages are within upper 3/4 limits from chart and procedures
in "Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q or
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Once the entire power supply subsystem is proven functioning
(not just the power supply), then a stable foundation exists
on which to conduct other diagnostic tests. If a foundation
is weak, then numerous and apparently unrelated problems could
occur.

Move on to comprehensive diagnostics. A responsible
computer manufacturer provides the entire set for free. But
when building a machine, download individual diagnostics from
component manufacturers or from third parties. Yours is an
NT based machine meaning less hardware can cause such
problems. The list of suspect parts include sound card, video
card, memory, CPU subsystem, and power supply. We have
eliminated power supply. Now to test those other subsystems
with a comprehensive diagnostic.

Heat is not a problem to computers. It is a diagnostic
tool. Electronic components inside that machine are well
within normal temperature even when heated with a hairdryer on
high - to temperatures uncomfortable to touch. For example,
run a memory diagnostic such as Docmem or Memtst86. Then
repeat that same test heating with hairdryer on high memory
SIMMs and / or chips that talk to memory. Semiconductor
intermittents at 70 degree F tend to become more detectable
when warmer. That even applies to hard drives. Unfortunately
the naive constantly recommend more fans. They want to cure a
symptom rather than identify and replace the marginal part
that is also likely to failure prematurely in the future.

Incidentally, mechanical devices such as CPU cooling fan is
a high failure device. On each startup, verify the fan is
spinning. Startup is often a time when an intermittently
failed fan does not, at first, startup. Again for reasons of
temperature. Often a defective fan when cold may fail to
start. If it does not start just once, then the fan is 100%
defective.

Up front and first - avoid shotgunning. It takes longer,
costs more, and sometimes never really identifies the actual
problem.

Once hardware is confirmed, only then move on to software
as a reason for the problem. Do not reload the OS or restore
a system disk until hardware has first been verified - to
avoid exponentially complicating the original problem.

 

[Mac Cool]

w_tom:

Heat is not a problem to computers. It is a diagnostic
tool.

Heat is a by-product and it must be managed. Excessive heat indicates an
improperly installed sink, a failing fan, inadequate ventilation or
occasionally a failing part; all of which are usually fairly simple to
diagnose. Excessive heat will damage components. The symptoms the OP
described are unlikely to be caused by heat.

 

[hona ponape]

Replace this. Replace that. Replace the other thing.
Before you finally find a problem, you have replaced over half
the machine but still don't have enough parts to build a
second. It is called shotgunning. It is recommended by those
who never first learned basic principles.

You start by first collecting facts. XP stores or reports
important facts in Device Manger and in the system (event)
logs. What do those report?

The foundation of any structure must be verified before
trying to fix that structure. A computer's foundation is its
power supply. Do not replace the supply on a whim (as others
suggest). Get the 3.5 digit multimeter to verify all critical
voltages are within upper 3/4 limits from chart and procedures
in "Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q or
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Once the entire power supply subsystem is proven functioning
(not just the power supply), then a stable foundation exists
on which to conduct other diagnostic tests. If a foundation
is weak, then numerous and apparently unrelated problems could
occur.

Move on to comprehensive diagnostics. A responsible
computer manufacturer provides the entire set for free. But
when building a machine, download individual diagnostics from
component manufacturers or from third parties. Yours is an
NT based machine meaning less hardware can cause such
problems. The list of suspect parts include sound card, video
card, memory, CPU subsystem, and power supply. We have
eliminated power supply. Now to test those other subsystems
with a comprehensive diagnostic.

Heat is not a problem to computers. It is a diagnostic
tool. Electronic components inside that machine are well
within normal temperature even when heated with a hairdryer on
high - to temperatures uncomfortable to touch. For example,
run a memory diagnostic such as Docmem or Memtst86. Then
repeat that same test heating with hairdryer on high memory
SIMMs and / or chips that talk to memory. Semiconductor
intermittents at 70 degree F tend to become more detectable
when warmer. That even applies to hard drives. Unfortunately
the naive constantly recommend more fans. They want to cure a
symptom rather than identify and replace the marginal part
that is also likely to failure prematurely in the future.

Incidentally, mechanical devices such as CPU cooling fan is
a high failure device. On each startup, verify the fan is
spinning. Startup is often a time when an intermittently
failed fan does not, at first, startup. Again for reasons of
temperature. Often a defective fan when cold may fail to
start. If it does not start just once, then the fan is 100%
defective.

Up front and first - avoid shotgunning. It takes longer,
costs more, and sometimes never really identifies the actual
problem.

Once hardware is confirmed, only then move on to software
as a reason for the problem. Do not reload the OS or restore
a system disk until hardware has first been verified - to
avoid exponentially complicating the original problem.

In your long-winded post you give no useful information. Are you trying to
impress chicks with your knowledge, or do you want to help? This isnt a
forensic investigation, the guy needs to fix a low cost computer.
Replacing components is the quickest easiest way to resolve the situation.
Time is money. Once you graduate high school, you may learn that.

 

[Matt]

Hi,

I built a computer recently--Celeron 2.4D CPU, 256 MB Kingston DDR 333 RAM,
AOpen MX4GVR-GN MOTHERBOARD, WESTERN DIGITAL WD400JB 40GB 7200RPM 8MB Hard
Drive, ASUS CD-S520 BLACK 52X CD-ROM DRIVE, WindowsXP Home SP2.

It freezes up every day--usually when it is idle--no programs running.

You forgot to put in a power supply. I am surprised that the thing even
boots.

 

[none]

In your long-winded post you give no useful information. Are you trying to
impress chicks with your knowledge, or do you want to help? This isnt a
forensic investigation, the guy needs to fix a low cost computer.
Replacing components is the quickest easiest way to resolve the situation.
Time is money. Once you graduate high school, you may learn that.

Good to hear a common sense reply for once.
Not all have time to learn all there is about computers just to fix
one.(Ask the techno geek if he knows every minute component of his
auto and can do ANY repair on it that's needed. Maybe he or she will
get a bit more perspective then.)
All the OP has to do is try replacing components one at a time.
Whatever component they purchase just be sure to keep the box/wrapper
in undamaged condition so it can be repackaged if it's not the
problem, allowing for a return of all uneccessary hardware.

They might want to invest in a static strap as wel though
pre-grounding by touching the metal case before debagging any cards
will do in a pinch.( A strap can be made by somply using a piece of 18
gauge wire and an alligator clip and a metal watchband.)

 

[w_tom]

Shotgunning is performed by those who never learned. Even
car mechanics no longer fix cars by first assuming it needs a
tuneup. But wildly replacing components for his girlfriend is
how the naive high school student impresses a girl? In the
real world, we fix things faster, the first time, and by using
a brain instead of a wallet. First we collect the facts.

How to fix things is a concept not taught to fiction
writers. Shotgunning is done only by those who feel they are
experts - who have so much time to drive back and forth to the
computer store. Provided was how to fix things in minutes
rather than use shotgunning that can take all day.

 

[Bill Eversole]

Hi,

I built a computer recently--Celeron 2.4D CPU, 256 MB Kingston DDR 333 RAM,
AOpen MX4GVR-GN MOTHERBOARD, WESTERN DIGITAL WD400JB 40GB 7200RPM 8MB Hard
Drive, ASUS CD-S520 BLACK 52X CD-ROM DRIVE, WindowsXP Home SP2.

It freezes up every day--usually when it is idle--no programs running. The
operator comes back and just finds the mouse pointer frozen. The hard drive
activity light is solid red when this condition is found. When the computer
is restarted with the reset button, it sometimes freezes at "Detecting IDE
drives" in CMOS...other times it freezes at the Windows XP splash screen.

Everything is set to "never" in power scheme options. Western Digital
Diagnostics reports no problems with hard drive.

Thanks in advance for any diagnostic suggestions.

Bill

Here's an update....

I did memory tests...no problem found

Ghosted the drive over to an old IBM hard drive...it's been running
flawlessly since...

I suspected the hard drive because of the CMOS freezing at "Detecting
IDE Drives", and the fact that the hard drive on this system's twin
built at the same time had to be RMA'd to WD.

Guess I'll try to get WD to take this one back as well.

Comments? Anyone else seen problem hard drives pass diagnostics, but
still be defective?

TIA

Bill

 

[Michael Hawes]

Here's an update....

I did memory tests...no problem found

Ghosted the drive over to an old IBM hard drive...it's been running
flawlessly since...

I suspected the hard drive because of the CMOS freezing at "Detecting
IDE Drives", and the fact that the hard drive on this system's twin
built at the same time had to be RMA'd to WD.

Guess I'll try to get WD to take this one back as well.

Comments? Anyone else seen problem hard drives pass diagnostics, but
still be defective?

TIA

Bill

Try WD diagnostic, but I have seen a WD drive do this during diagnostic
('freezing') and still passed! WD not very good at logging problems in
SMART. Drive is very suspect from your description.
Mike.