Can't boot. Trying recovery console. How long to 'examine disk'?

[Bill Cook]

Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can run
chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already
tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on
atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light flashing.
I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try something
else? ...and what else do I try??

 

[Malke]

Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can
run
chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already
tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on
atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light
flashing. I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and
try something
else? ...and what else do I try??

You give up now. I certainly would have done so hours ago. Without knowing
what the blue screen said (Stop Error) I can only guess that your hard
drive (or some other hardware component) is failing.

You know your own skills best to decide whether you do hardware
troubleshooting yourself or take the machine to a competent local
professional (not a BigComputerStore type of place).

Malke

 

[Anna]

Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can
run
chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already
tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on
atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light
flashing.
I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try
something
else? ...and what else do I try??

Bill:
While it does sound like a defective HDD why don't you at least check it out
with the diagnostic utility that's generally available from the website of
the disk's manufacturer? Depending upon the results we can go on from there.
Anna

 

[Bill Cook]

Thank you, Malke. I'm looking into some local shops. I've also contacted
the HD vendor (Anna's suggestion), to see if there are any diagnostics that I
might be able to run beforehand.

 

[Bill Cook]

Thank you, Anna. I've contacted the vendor to see if there are any
diagnostics that I might be able to run before taking it to the shop. (Worst
case, the vendor will 'only' charge $1400 USD to get the data back - ouch!)

 

[Malke]

Thank you, Malke. I'm looking into some local shops. I've also contacted
the HD vendor (Anna's suggestion), to see if there are any diagnostics
that I might be able to run beforehand.

That's a wise move. If the hard drive is damaged, no local company is going
to be able to retrieve your data. It will require a professional data
recovery company such as Drive Savers (my preference) or Seagate Data
Recovery or the like. In that case, $1400 is the middle range of what you
can expect to pay.

http://www.drivesavers.com

Malke

 

[Bill Cook]

Anna,

Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)
and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new drive
to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the USB
case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by little
with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places, I'll
be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a repair
install, etc).

I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

Bill

 

[mcnews]

Yesterday, my system blue-screened. I'm trying to at least see if I can run
chkdsk or look at directories by running the recovery console. (Already
tried safe mode and other boot possibilities).

It's been displaying 'Examining 238473 MB Disk 0 at Id 0 on bus 0 on
atapi...' for more than 12 hours now. I don't see the drive light flashing.
I know that the drive is pretty big, but when do I give up and try something
else? ...and what else do I try??

you can try to reinstall/recover.
that's what i had to do and haven't had a problem for several months
now..
i also heard that you can put the harddrive in the freezer for 45
minutes.
this seems to work with seagate drives that have heat damage.
the drive will work at least long enough to recover data.

 

[Anna]

Anna,
Last night, I ran the SeaTools diagnostic (both the short and long tests)
and both passed, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware issue.

In the next couple of days, I'm going to invest in a USB case and new
drive
to use as a backup. If I'm able to read my problem drive's data via the
USB
case, I'll back up the data by shuttling it to the new drive little by
little
with my laptop as the intermediary. After I have my data in two places,
I'll
be more confident about trying other things (running chkdsk, doing a
repair
install, etc).

I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for the help so far,

Bill

Bill:
Glad to hear it appears the HDD is non-defective. Hopefully you'll be able
to access its contents through the course of action you've indicated. In
that vein please consider the following approach...

Now that you'll have a USB external enclosure and another HDD at your
disposal that ultimately will be (hopefully) used as part of a routine
backup system, consider purchasing a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program
which you could use systematically to backup the complete contents of your
day-to-day internal HDD. So that you will always have at hand a reasonably
up-to-date backup of the *complete* contents of your internal HDD, including
the OS, all your programs & applications, all your user-created data, etc.
So should a similar problem as the one you're currently experiencing raise
its ugly head again you would have the wherewithal to easily resurrect your
system to a bootable functional state with all programs & data intact. It's
hard to imagine a better backup system, right?

Should you decide to go that route you might want to consider another
approach to return your present internal HDD to a bootable, functional state
at this point in time

1. Install the new HDD in its USB external enclosure. (I'm assuming these
will be separate components which I think is a good idea rather than a
commercial one-piece unit. If you're using SATA HDDs or plan to use one in
your current system, purchase an enclosure that provides SATA connectivity
(usually through a eSATA port) in addition to USB connectivity. The
difference in cost is minimal).

2. Using a disk-cloning program (presumably you would be using the bootable
"Startup Disk" (CD) which contains the disk-cloning program and which
virtually all disk-cloning programs allow you to create), clone the contents
of your problem Seagate HDD to the new HDD in its external enclosure.

3. Knowing that you now have a precise copy of your internal HDD, you can
feel free to run a Repair install on your internal HDD and/or use other
approaches, e.g., chkdsk, sfc /scannow, etc. to see if you can return the
problem drive to a bootable, functional state.
Anna

 

[Bill Cook]

Anna,

I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the new
drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image Home
will do.

Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to see
if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said it
was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and then
try running other tools.

Thanks for hanging in there with me...

Bill

 

[PD43]

Anna,

I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the new
drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image Home
will do.

It will do quite nicely. Get it at Newegg.com - about $25 and free
3-day shipping.

 

[Anna]

Anna,

I'll take your advice and purchase some cloning software along with the
new
drive and SATA/USB case tomorrow. I'm assuming that Acronis True Image >
Home will do.

Tonight, I tried booting from the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows, just to
see
if I could see data on the drive, but it couldn't read the C drive - said
it
was corrupt. We'll see what happens when I try to clone the drive and
then
try running other tools.

Thanks for hanging in there with me...

Bill

Bill:
As a general proposition you're making a wise choice re purchasing a disk
cloning program - one you'll never regret.

Obviously at this point when you clone the problem HDD to another HDD you'll
be (in effect) "cloning garbage to garbage". But in this case it's the
appropriate way to go since no matter what happens during the time you try
to resurrect that problem HDD (perhaps even making matters worse!), you'll
always have a precise copy of the drive as it now exists. It's a methodology
we nearly always employ in cases like this.

As to the disk cloning program...

The Acronis True Image program is a fine program and you should definitely
give it a try, especially since a full trial version is available at the
Acronis site.

The disk cloning program that we greatly prefer is the Casper 5 program. As
a disk-to-disk cloning program that will be used (as it should be) as a
comprehensive routine backup program, we find it superior to the Acronis
program for a variety of reasons. I can provide more info about that program
if you want.

In any event there is a trial version of the Casper 5 program available.
While it's slightly crippled it should give you a good idea of its
capability and you can compare it with the ATI program. You can download it
from...
http://www.fssdev.com/products/free/
Anna

 

[Bill Cook]

Anna,

Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk from
the Casper trial version?

Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests), but
the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be able to
'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new drive?

Bill

 

[Anna]

Anna,
Would you happen to know if there is any way of making a bootable disk
from the Casper trial version?

Also, assuming that the drive HW is good (based on the Seagate tests), but
the contents of the data is mangled, will the Casper program still be able
to
'find' my bad C drive in order to clone the 'garbage' to the remote new
drive?
Bill

Bill:
Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to create
the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program that
the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal HDD
to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the user
would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned USBEHD).

The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an
add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be
purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter of
fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost. I can't
imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's
obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really be
included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True
Image program).

But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded
executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the program
plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other disk-cloning
programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis does
however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its "Startup Disk"
(Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no extra cost directly
from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis program on
its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

Anyway, since you're dealing with an unbootable, dysfunctional HDD there's
obviously no practical way to install the Casper program (trial or purchased
version) onto that drive so that you could test out the program. BTW, the
Casper "Startup Disk" is actually an .iso file that you use to burn the
bootable CD.

As I've indicated, the "Startup Disk" is ordinarily used in situations
(similar to your current situation) where the installed Casper program is
not accessible since the internal boot HDD is dysfunctional and the user
would be cloning the contents of his/her USB external HDD (used previously
as the recipient of the cloned contents of the internal HDD when the latter
was without problems) for restoration purposes.

What you could do if you're so inclined in order to at least test out the
Casper program is to download & install the program on your laptop and clone
the contents of the laptop to your USBEHD. Obviously this wouldn't solve
your problem but just give you some insight as to how the program works and
whether you think it will serve your needs better than another disk-cloning
(or disk-imaging) program such as the Acronis one.

And, as I've previously suggested, you should use the trial version of the
ATI program and compare programs.

I realize I haven't fully explained *why* we prefer the Casper program over
other disk-cloning (or disk-imaging) programs such as the Acronis one. If
you (or others coming upon this thread) would like to have this info please
so indicate and I'll post some add'l comments.
Anna

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Bill:
Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow
one to create the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a
bootable copy of the program that the user could use to
clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal HDD to his/her USB external
HDD (or vice versa as in the case
where the user would be restoring his/her system from a
previously cloned USBEHD).

The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the
program for an add'l $9.95; [.........] BTW, the Casper "Startup Disk" is
actually an .iso
file that you use to burn the bootable CD.

I purchased the $10 Casper "startup disk" .iso file and burned
ti to CD. It (along with Gparted) picked up the presence of
my external ExpressCard-connected eSATA hard drive - unlike
Cute Partition Manager and Clonezilla.

The annoyance with the Casper startup disk is that is CD-
based, and it takes 10 minutes to load it into my dual-core CPU
laptop. But unlike Gparted, which has a .zip file that one can use
to make a live USB thumb drive, the Casper startup disk cannot
be put on a USB thumb drive. At least, I haven't figured out
a way to do that. The problem partially results from Casper
being based on Windows .dll files and not on Linux files, as do
most live USB implementations. Therefore, all the existing
on-line documentation for making Linux live USB "sticks" does
not apply. There is also some documentation on converting
live CDs to live USBs, but again, that is for Linux. I suspect
that there is a way to put the Casper logic on a BartPE (a
minimal Windows OS) or to install Casper in Windows XP
and then pare it down using nLite, but that would involve a
lot of work (and a learning curve) for the average person,
including me. I wrote FutureSystemsSolutions several weeks
asking how to convert their Casper .iso file to a form that
could be put on a USB "stick", but I got no reply.

Meanwhile, I find that Gparted is an excellent utility. I use
it to manage the partitions on my laptop, and its GUI presents
the situation to the user very well. I rely on the Casper
startup disk to transfer partitions between the internal hard
drive and the external eSATA hard drive because Casper does
the transfer much faster. Although BootItNG seems to under-
stand the new Vista partitioning format the best of the 3rd-party
partition managers, if you go to all XP-partitioning from the start,
Casper and Gparted do just as well, and Vista does understand
the pre-Vista partitioning format. And... Gparted is free.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Bill in Co.]

Bill:
Unfortunately, no - the trial version of Casper will not allow one to
create
the "Startup Disk" (CD) which contains a bootable copy of the program that
the user could use to clone the contents of one's dysfunctional internal
HDD
to his/her USB external HDD (or vice versa as in the case where the user
would be restoring his/her system from a previously cloned USBEHD).

The "Startup Disk" must be purchased separately from the program for an
add'l $9.95; it's not available in any trial version (nor can it be
purchased as a standalone program except to a licensed user). As a matter
of
fact we've complained to the developer about this "optional" cost. I can't
imagine any user of the program *not* having the Startup Disk since it's
obviously an essential part of the program and in our view should really
be
included in the cost of the basic program (as it is with the Acronis True
Image program).

But, alas, it isn't. However, we believe the program (it's a downloaded
executable file) is so good that it's worth the added cost of the program
plus the add'l cost of the Startup Disk as compared with other
disk-cloning
programs that we've worked with, including Acronis True Image. Acronis
does
however have the advantage of allowing the user to create its "Startup
Disk"
(Acronis calls it their "Bootable Rescue Media") at no extra cost directly
from the installed program. And if I'm not mistaken the Acronis program on
its CD can be used as a "Startup Disk".

That is correct (and is another reason why I purchased it "boxed".

 

[Bill Cook]

Anna,

Just to follow up...

I downloaded both the Casper and Acronis free trials. Since Acronis allowed
me to make a boot disk, I ran it and was pleased to see that it was able to
at least recognize the size and NTFS structure of my drive (unlike the
Ultimate Boot CD), and was also able to find and recognize the larger drive
over USB that I purchased along with the USB case. The trial version didn't
allow me to clone anything from the boot disk, however - it clones only when
running from Windows.

However, since it could at least recognize things, and since I'll be going
on vacation for a week and wanted to get it into the hands of some others to
try a recovery attempt, I purchased Acronis and was successfully able to
produce a clone! That will give me the peace of mind that I (or others more
experienced than myself) can take some risks in the recovery attempt.

THANK YOU for the suggestions in this regard. I still will probably try out
the Casper software when things settle down one way or the other, since I've
heard that it is much faster at cloning. (Acronis took about 3.5 hours with
my 250G drive).

Again, thank you, and I'll follow up again after my vacation, when I see how
things are going with the recovery attempt.

Bill

 

[Anna]

Anna,

Just to follow up...

I downloaded both the Casper and Acronis free trials. Since Acronis
allowed > me to make a boot disk, I ran it and was pleased to see that it
was able to
at least recognize the size and NTFS structure of my drive (unlike the
Ultimate Boot CD), and was also able to find and recognize the larger
drive
over USB that I purchased along with the USB case. The trial version
didn't
allow me to clone anything from the boot disk, however - it clones only
when
running from Windows.

However, since it could at least recognize things, and since I'll be going
on vacation for a week and wanted to get it into the hands of some others
to
try a recovery attempt, I purchased Acronis and was successfully able to
produce a clone! That will give me the peace of mind that I (or others
more
experienced than myself) can take some risks in the recovery attempt.

THANK YOU for the suggestions in this regard. I still will probably try
out
the Casper software when things settle down one way or the other, since
I've > heard that it is much faster at cloning. (Acronis took about 3.5
hours with
my 250G drive).

Again, thank you, and I'll follow up again after my vacation, when I see
how
things are going with the recovery attempt.
Bill

Bill:
It's possible that because of the dysfunctional nature of your "source" HDD,
it took an inordinately long time for Acronis to clone the contents of that
drive to your USBEHD. We've run into the same situation with Casper as well
when cloning unbootable/dysfunctional HDDs.

Assuming you're eventually able to return that HDD to a bootable, functional
state and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program, you
might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup
purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of reasons
many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's system rather
than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a disk-to-disk (or
partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a superior product, ATI's
disk-imaging capability (unavailable in Casper) make it a more desirable
product should a user desire that backup approach.

In any event, do install the trial version of Casper when you get a chance
and see how you like it. Keep in mind that if & when you do the one feature
that makes Casper so superior (in our view) as a disk-cloning program is its
ability to create routine subsequent clones (following the initial/first
cloning of the source drive) in a fraction of the time it takes other
disk-cloning programs to do so. A mighty strong incentive for the user to
make frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing that the process
will take only a few short minutes in most cases.
Anna

 

[Bill in Co.]

Bill:
It's possible that because of the dysfunctional nature of your "source"
HDD,
it took an inordinately long time for Acronis to clone the contents of
that
drive to your USBEHD. We've run into the same situation with Casper as
well
when cloning unbootable/dysfunctional HDDs.

Assuming you're eventually able to return that HDD to a bootable,
functional
state and you begin to use the ATI program as a routine backup program,
you
might want to experiment with Acronis's disk imaging feature for backup
purposes rather than its disk-cloning capability. For a variety of reasons
many users prefer a disk-imaging approach to backing up one's system
rather
than the disk-cloning approach. While we believe that as a disk-to-disk
(or
partition-to-partition) cloning program, Casper is a superior product,
ATI's
disk-imaging capability (unavailable in Casper) make it a more desirable
product should a user desire that backup approach.

I think that being the case, if one does NOT want to swap drives (which is a
real PIA for some external HD enclosures), but, instead, simply wants a
partition backup scheme. Is that a valid assessment? (otherwise you'd
have to use the cloning software to 1) clone the source disk to the
destination and 2) then restore the backup clone partition BACK to the
source drive).

But I expect you can do this with Casper. And maybe(?) the overall process
would be faster due to its smart cloning feature (not sure), but that's not
the way a *cloning* program is intended to be used, as I understand it.

 

[Anna]

I think that being the case, if one does NOT want to swap drives (which is
a real PIA for some external HD enclosures), but, instead, simply wants a
partition backup scheme. Is that a valid assessment? (otherwise you'd
have to use the cloning software to 1) clone the source disk to the
destination and 2) then restore the backup clone partition BACK to the
source drive).

But I expect you can do this with Casper. And maybe(?) the overall
process would be faster due to its smart cloning feature (not sure), but
that's not the way a *cloning* program is intended to be used, as I
understand it.

Bill:
I'm pretty sure we've previously covered this ground so let me respond in a
more generic way...

It seems to me that what the vast majority of PC users desire in a
comprehensive backup program involving either a disk-to-disk cloning (or
partition-to-partition) program or a disk-imaging program is...
1. Effectiveness, i.e., the disk-cloning program will provide a precise copy
of the HDD being cloned, or in the case of a disk-imaging program, a image
in the form of a file (archive) that in effect, is a precise copy of HDD
that's imaged, and the image file or archive thus created can be easily
manipulated so that the system can be restored to a functional state if &
when that need arises.
2. The program - be it a disk-cloning or disk-imaging program - has a
straightforward design and is simple to use.
3. The routine systematic backups of one's system can be undertaken
relatively quickly so that the user is encouraged to back up his or her
system at frequent intervals.

What's *not* important in my view or at least relatively unimportant, is the
speed of the "restoration" process, i.e., the time it takes to restore the
system to a bootable, functional state following the failure of one's
internal HDD or following a dysfunctional operating system due to corruption
of data or other cause not involving defective hardware.

Is it not true that in nearly every case the user will be using his/her
disk-cloning or disk-imaging program to backup their system? And *rarely*
(in comparison with routine backups) will have occasion to utilize the
program to restore his/her system because of one of the events listed above?
So does it really matter whether the restoration process will take 45
minutes or two hours?

What's important, again in my view, is the amount of time it takes to
effectively back up one's system on a routine basis, perhaps daily or weekly
or every few days. As I've indicated, when the user knows that the backup
process he or she will undertake can be achieved in a relatively short
period of time, he or she will have a greater incentive to undertake more
frequent backups than they might otherwise do if they know that their backup
program involves a lengthy time-consuming process.

As I have previously indicated, the major reason we prefer the Casper
program over all other disk-cloning programs that we're familiar with,
including the Acronis True Image program, is its so-called "SmartClone"
feature. Routine backups with this program take only a fraction of the time
as compared with other disk-cloning programs. These "incremental clones" are
complete clones of the source HDD. Obviously the amount of data being cloned
will dictate the time needed to complete the disk-cloning process, but I can
assure you its backup time is far, shorter than any other disk-cloning
program we've ever experienced.

As you know, Casper does not have disk-imaging capability. I fully
understand that there are many users who prefer that approach rather than
disk-to-disk cloning. But our experience with thousands of PC users
convinces us that by & large the disk-to-disk cloning process as a
comprehensive & routine backup system is more practical for the great body
of PC users. But I have no problem with those users who prefer the
disk-imaging backup route.

Frankly, I'm not at all sure I quite understand your current questions &
comments. I assume you're referring to the restoration process involving a
disk-cloning program. It is true that should the user employ a USBEHD as
his/her destination HDD, i.e., the recipient of the clone, and the user
desires to use that HDD as a replacement for his/her internal HDD (perhaps
to replace a failed internal HDD), he or she can do that assuming the HDD
from the USB device can be uninstalled from the enclosure.

On the other hand, the contents of the USBEHD can be simply re:cloned to the
internal HDD (assuming the latter is non-defective) to restore a
dysfunctional system. A simple process, no?

So what's the problem here? These are not terribly complicated or
tremendously time-consuming events. Again, we must bear in mind that
presumably these will be relatively rare events, would they not?
Anna