Canon ink cartridge cross contamination

[Kris]

Hi,

Can the group suggest why my Canon i850 has a problem
with the colour cartridges becoming contaminated with
another cartridges' ink ?

This seems to happen gradually when the printer is off,
most noticeable on the yellow where the other ink ( looks black )
can be seen creeping up the sponge from the print head.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[colinco]

Hi,

Can the group suggest why my Canon i850 has a problem
with the colour cartridges becoming contaminated with
another cartridges' ink ?

This seems to happen gradually when the printer is off,
most noticeable on the yellow where the other ink ( looks black )
can be seen creeping up the sponge from the print head.

Thanks,

Chris
[/QUOTE]
Is the pad where the printhead parks saturated?

 

[SleeperMan]

Hi,

Can the group suggest why my Canon i850 has a problem
with the colour cartridges becoming contaminated with
another cartridges' ink ?

This seems to happen gradually when the printer is off,
most noticeable on the yellow where the other ink ( looks black )
can be seen creeping up the sponge from the print head.

Thanks,

Chris

Opsss...

Exactly same happened to my in my i550. Result was new printer...

But, to explain...here started with magenta. But if i ran nozzle clean or
two, or printer 3-5 pages, further printing was quite OK - until next day...
Then i carry it to service, where they cleaned pump, head etc... but they
said head is gone...
Did you by any chance refill? And how old is your printer? Serviceman told
me it happens because of using refill inks and in this case head barriers
slooooowly corrode and damage is here...

 

[Bill]

But, to explain...here started with magenta. But if i ran nozzle clean or
two, or printer 3-5 pages, further printing was quite OK - until next day...
Then i carry it to service, where they cleaned pump, head etc... but they
said head is gone...
Did you by any chance refill? And how old is your printer? Serviceman told
me it happens because of using refill inks and in this case head barriers
slooooowly corrode and damage is here...

I have my doubts about the corrosion factor. The inks are water soluble
and I find it hard to believe that they could corrode the printheads.

And what if you didn't use refill inks, just genuine Canon ink tanks?

 

[PC Medic]

Hi,

Can the group suggest why my Canon i850 has a problem
with the colour cartridges becoming contaminated with
another cartridges' ink ?

This seems to happen gradually when the printer is off,
most noticeable on the yellow where the other ink ( looks black )
can be seen creeping up the sponge from the print head.

There are a few possible causes...

Something prevented the head from completing the park cycle (obstruction or
power loss during this operation). This would leave the head parked slightly
out of position over the purge area where there is a small filter/pad that
is contaminated with waste ink. This can allow the head to 'wick' a
different color and contaminate the tank. This is often a one time thing and
replacing the tank is all that is needed.

If you replace the tank and within a few jobs see the same contamination,
then problems with the printer or printhead requiring service may be
indicated.

If in warranty I would recommend contacting Canon for your nearest service
center. They can quickly determine the exact cause and correct it. You also
do not risk wasting a new tank to verify if it was one time head park issue.

 

[PC Medic]

Hi,

Can the group suggest why my Canon i850 has a problem
with the colour cartridges becoming contaminated with
another cartridges' ink ?

This seems to happen gradually when the printer is off,
most noticeable on the yellow where the other ink ( looks black )
can be seen creeping up the sponge from the print head.

Thanks,

Chris

Is the pad where the printhead parks saturated?[/QUOTE]

As it should be.

 

[PC Medic]

I have my doubts about the corrosion factor. The inks are water soluble
and I find it hard to believe that they could corrode the printheads.

First All inks are not made alike (especially when it comes to third party).
Just like other products there are high and low quality manufacture. Also,
if you check your facts first you will see that while they may be water
soluble (to some extent) they also contain diethylene glycol and isopropyl
alchohol (both solvents) and can certainly be corrosive! Especially if the
ink formula is using too high a concentrate and when you are talking the
material and complexity of a printhead mask area.

Check the following

http://www1.dupont.com/NASApp/dupontglobal/corp/products/prodDetail.jsp?nodeID=2528

Notice the frequent use of the word 'solvent'!

 

[SleeperMan]

I have my doubts about the corrosion factor. The inks are water
soluble and I find it hard to believe that they could corrode the
printheads.

And what if you didn't use refill inks, just genuine Canon ink tanks?

I'll see this time! Now i decided to use only original carts on my ip4000
and i'll see after a year or two.

 

[SleeperMan]

There are a few possible causes...

Something prevented the head from completing the park cycle
(obstruction or power loss during this operation). This would leave
the head parked slightly out of position over the purge area where
there is a small filter/pad that is contaminated with waste ink. This
can allow the head to 'wick' a different color and contaminate the
tank. This is often a one time thing and replacing the tank is all
that is needed.
If you replace the tank and within a few jobs see the same
contamination, then problems with the printer or printhead requiring
service may be indicated.

If in warranty I would recommend contacting Canon for your nearest
service center. They can quickly determine the exact cause and
correct it. You also do not risk wasting a new tank to verify if it
was one time head park issue.

Yeap, like me...i bought COMPLETE set of new carts to have the same
situation...luckily, i can use black one in ip4000, but, i guess i'll use
bci3e ones, too after originals will be out. Too much money wasted if i
don't. And by taking it to service---i just wasted money by doing this...

 

[Ron Cohen]

I'll see this time! Now i decided to use only original carts on my ip4000
and i'll see after a year or two.

Using only genuine Canon ink tanks is certainly one way to go, but I have a
different opinion on the matter. A new set of five Canon tanks for the
iP4000 will be $50 to $60 plus s&h and/or sales tax. If you do four
complete replacements in a year that will be a cost of between $200 and
$240. If you do much photo printing, this amount of ink usage would probably
be on the low side. However if you refill with quality ink how much will
that same amount of printing cost? My most recent purchase of ink was for
8oz bottles of each of the five colors for less than $50 which included s&h.
The total cost was less than the cost of a single set of cartridges. That
much ink will translate into about 40 refills per color at a net cost of
about 25¢ per tank or $1.25 for all five tanks. The first refill recoups the
purchase cost of the entire amount of refill ink. Subsequent refills have a
net savings of at least $50. Two or three refills and you've just saved
enough to buy another printer (which will also come with a new set of OEM
tanks). Considering I've refilled about once a week over the past couple of
years I've saved the purchase price of a bunch of new printers. I'd never
have been able to print that much if using OEM cartridges. I don't doubt
that inferior inks can damage a print head. However, there are a number of
quality third party inks and using their inks shouldn't damage the print
head any more than using OEM.

 

[SleeperMan]

Using only genuine Canon ink tanks is certainly one way to go, but I
have a different opinion on the matter. A new set of five Canon tanks
for the iP4000 will be $50 to $60 plus s&h and/or sales tax. If you
do four complete replacements in a year that will be a cost of
between $200 and $240. If you do much photo printing, this amount of
ink usage would probably be on the low side. However if you refill
with quality ink how much will that same amount of printing cost? My
most recent purchase of ink was for 8oz bottles of each of the five
colors for less than $50 which included s&h. The total cost was less
than the cost of a single set of cartridges. That much ink will
translate into about 40 refills per color at a net cost of about 25¢
per tank or $1.25 for all five tanks. The first refill recoups the
purchase cost of the entire amount of refill ink. Subsequent refills
have a net savings of at least $50. Two or three refills and you've
just saved enough to buy another printer (which will also come with a
new set of OEM tanks). Considering I've refilled about once a week
over the past couple of years I've saved the purchase price of a
bunch of new printers. I'd never have been able to print that much if
using OEM cartridges. I don't doubt that inferior inks can damage a
print head. However, there are a number of quality third party inks
and using their inks shouldn't damage the print head any more than
using OEM.

You're right about that. I guess i'll have to think a bit...
But, at least, i must find a new supplier for ink. (Europe)

 

[Ron Cohen]

Wish I could help you on that one. If you were in the US I'd strongly
recommend Sensient-Formulabs ink from www.alotofthings.com, but being in
Europe that poses a problem. I believe that ink is available over there, but
I'm not familiar with any suppliers.

 

[SleeperMan]

Wish I could help you on that one. If you were in the US I'd strongly
recommend Sensient-Formulabs ink from www.alotofthings.com, but being
in Europe that poses a problem. I believe that ink is available over
there, but I'm not familiar with any suppliers.

Thanks anyway. I'll try to dig up with something.

 

[Mr Jessop]

Thanks anyway. I'll try to dig up with something.

Jet tec are the leading independants here. They make specific cartridges or
re fill kits. I buy my ink from www.choicestationery.com
it is something like £2.75 for a brand new 3rd party cartridge. NO clogs so
far. Colour profile is same but not as heavily saturated colour. Which is
a good thing as my 300d on standard settings is just a little too saturated
and contrasty.

 

[SleeperMan]

Jet tec are the leading independants here. They make specific
cartridges or re fill kits. I buy my ink from
www.choicestationery.com it is something like £2.75 for a brand new 3rd
party cartridge. NO
clogs so far. Colour profile is same but not as heavily saturated
colour. Which is a good thing as my 300d on standard settings is
just a little too saturated and contrasty.

I'll take a look. Thanks!

 

[David Chien]

The most obvious reason for this in the older Canon printers is that the
suction hoses connecting the pumps to the nozzle docking area has
degraded over time (made of rubber) and has cracked/split and has now
lost suction.

As a result, the pads under the nozzles can't suction the ink properly
away from the heads, and cross contamination of ink colors can occur,
even to the point where one ink cartridge starts to become discolored
due to the cross-mixing of inks.

This has been seen and documented in the Canon S450 printers, and can
occur in any Canon printer which has hoses connecting the pumps to the
nozzle pads.

---

The fix, which works in almost all cases, is to replace these tubes (if
cracked -- if NOT, then it's another problem) with new ones. You can
either ask Canon for them, or find any hobby store and replace them with
any flexible, liquid tubing (eg. from a lab, there's lots of clear,
flexible tubes that one can cut to length and use). DO make sure that
they're just a touch smaller than the ends you'll fit them over to
ensure a very tight fit that is vaccum tight - here, you may need to use
fine needle nose pliers to push the new tubing over both connecting ends
on the printer. take you're time and patience and you'll be fine.

Here, we've simply replaced the tubing with standard, clear, lab-grade
flexible tubing found in most labs, and the printers work perfectly fine
after that.

Do note that you will have to replace all contaminated cartridges, and
that some cross contamination may still exist until you've run a few
hundred pages through to clear everything out.

 

[Michael Brown]

I had made a request to Canon as to the cause of the problem. Their
first reply telling me to inspect the tank seating, printhead seating,
and a do a few deep cleaning cycles - all of which I have done numerous
times. If my problem still continued it likely was the printhead and I
was given a number to the parts department.

Below is my reply to Canon on what I found when I took the printer
apart:

---------------------------------

What I'd really like to know is how does the cross
contamination occur? I've had the yellow tank contaminated three times
now. In all cases I thoroughly rinsed all ink from the print head (I
even removed the two screws holding the print head to the plastic
carrier and rinsed the rubber washer between the printhead and the
carrier). After doing this the printhead printed fine with fresh ink
tanks. I don't see how any cross contamination can occur in the
printhead - each color ink has a separate path to the print head.

I've now disassembled the printer - with particular attention to the ink
waste area. Printers are second to VCRs in the wonder of their
mechanical design! I read one post on a newsgroup saying the hoses on
the ink pump get brittle - mine were just fine - soft and supple. The
pump appeared to work when I manually turned it - ink came out the tubes
on the bottom side. Possibly the small rubber trays that raise up and
sealed against the bottom of the printhead are not making their seal - I
would have expected to find a pool of ink in the trays if that was the
case - there was none. I re-assembled the printer with new tanks and
its currently printing correctly.

But... as before, if I let it set for a few hours, the yellow will print
green. I'm sure if I let it set for days, the cyan would be leeched up
into the yellow tank as it has done three times already. I did run the
printer with the cover off and watched the printhead park. It appears
the rubber trays are raised to seal the printhead when not in use. This
is the only time there is an direct path between the cyan and yellow
tanks. When the printer sits for a long period, can the inks possibly
slowly drain from the tanks into the rubber trays sealing the bottom of
the print head - filling the tray - and seeping back up into the other
color tanks?

Obviously with the thousands of the i850s/i860s Canon has sold, I know
I'm not the only one to experience this.

Can Canon offer an explanation? What specifically can cause this? I
don't see how a new printhead can correct this - if so, what failed in
the printhead? There just isn't much there to fail. I'd hate to spend
$52 on a new printhead when I can buy an ip3000 for $80.

------------------------

Of couse I haven't told them I have been using generic ink tanks - that
too easy of an out for them. (I've gone through one set of generics
before my problems started) If my theory on ink pooling in the trays
when the printhead is parked is correct, a thinner ink might be to
blame.

Interestingly enough - I contacted the generic ink manufacturer
(abcink.com) and explained the problem - they apologized for my having
problems with their product and offered me a credit on my order...

 

[PC Medic]

I had made a request to Canon as to the cause of the problem. Their
first reply telling me to inspect the tank seating, printhead seating,
and a do a few deep cleaning cycles - all of which I have done numerous
times. If my problem still continued it likely was the printhead and I
was given a number to the parts department.

Below is my reply to Canon on what I found when I took the printer
apart:

---------------------------------

What I'd really like to know is how does the cross
contamination occur? I've had the yellow tank contaminated three times
now. In all cases I thoroughly rinsed all ink from the print head (I
even removed the two screws holding the print head to the plastic
carrier and rinsed the rubber washer between the printhead and the
carrier). After doing this the printhead printed fine with fresh ink
tanks. I don't see how any cross contamination can occur in the
printhead - each color ink has a separate path to the print head.

I've now disassembled the printer - with particular attention to the ink
waste area. Printers are second to VCRs in the wonder of their
mechanical design! I read one post on a newsgroup saying the hoses on
the ink pump get brittle - mine were just fine - soft and supple. The
pump appeared to work when I manually turned it - ink came out the tubes
on the bottom side. Possibly the small rubber trays that raise up and
sealed against the bottom of the printhead are not making their seal - I
would have expected to find a pool of ink in the trays if that was the
case - there was none. I re-assembled the printer with new tanks and
its currently printing correctly.

But... as before, if I let it set for a few hours, the yellow will print
green. I'm sure if I let it set for days, the cyan would be leeched up
into the yellow tank as it has done three times already. I did run the
printer with the cover off and watched the printhead park. It appears
the rubber trays are raised to seal the printhead when not in use. This
is the only time there is an direct path between the cyan and yellow
tanks. When the printer sits for a long period, can the inks possibly
slowly drain from the tanks into the rubber trays sealing the bottom of
the print head - filling the tray - and seeping back up into the other
color tanks?

Obviously with the thousands of the i850s/i860s Canon has sold, I know
I'm not the only one to experience this.

Can Canon offer an explanation? What specifically can cause this? I
don't see how a new printhead can correct this - if so, what failed in
the printhead? There just isn't much there to fail. I'd hate to spend
$52 on a new printhead when I can buy an ip3000 for $80.

While it would be great if they could, they can not possible answer such a
question accurately via phone or email.
having worked on more of these and other printers of similar design more
times than I can count, the most that can be offered without a visit to a
service center is 'possible' causes, which I and others have already
mentioned here in the newsgroup.

There are actually fine adjustments (and tools for doing so) in the areas
you disassambled. Could be that one of these is out of spec, could be a bad
printhead, could be bad ink or tanks. Often third party inks will refill
salvaged tanks and in doing so disturb the precision purge/weep hole at the
top of the tank. This can in fact cause the ink to excessively build up in
the waste/purge vavle area near the home position. So yes you therory there
is also possible.

At this point you have 3 options I can see.
1) Replace the printhead and hope that is the cause (most likely by the
way).
2) take it to an authorized service facility where they have the specs and
tools to properly diagnose and fix.
3) take advantage of the Canon loyalty program where you get a discount and
free next day shipping on a replacement printer (I have used this myself).

Of couse I haven't told them I have been using generic ink tanks - that
too easy of an out for them. (I've gone through one set of generics
before my problems started) If my theory on ink pooling in the trays
when the printhead is parked is correct, a thinner ink might be to
blame.

Possible, or an ink with to rich an ethanol or glycol content may have
caused premature drying/shrinking of the 'O'-Rings in the printhead allowing
the inks to mix.

Interestingly enough - I contacted the generic ink manufacturer
(abcink.com) and explained the problem - they apologized for my having
problems with their product and offered me a credit on my order...

More than most will do and one reason they can sell so cheap. They have no
liability should the printer fail as it is usually more costly to prove
their ink was the cause than to just replace the printer and they know that.

 

[rena]

Hi guys;

I'm not sure the problem is the printer head but I guess it is. If
this is the problem would my i850 just go dead on me. No power at
all. I had just finished refilling my cartridges and when I came back
it went on and few seconds later just died.

Anything I can check. The ink cartridges are parked on the right side
and I have no access to them.

Help

Rema

 

[Bill]

I'm not sure the problem is the printer head but I guess it is. If
this is the problem would my i850 just go dead on me. No power at
all. I had just finished refilling my cartridges and when I came back
it went on and few seconds later just died.

I don't think that's normal. When my printhead died, it still tried to
print but couldn't, and I could turn the printer on/off.

Anything I can check. The ink cartridges are parked on the right side
and I have no access to them.

Power supply?