Can vista be downgraded easily?

[friesian]

My friend has asked for a new computer for her birthday, but I Have
recently learned that vista will not run her printer/fax.scanner
machine. It would cost a couple hundred dollars to replace that
machine when she has one that works fine. If she gets a new computer
with vista, can it be changed to xp fairly easily?

I do have original XP cds for my own computer. Would she lose anything
important for her computer to remove the preinstalled os and reinstall
the xp?

Do they still sell desktops with XP?

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.
Has there been any efforts to make them work? I wouldn't mind a new
operating system if it didn't make my old equipment stop working. I am
planning to get a new laptop myself this year, and I have the same
printer/fax machine. It's a great machine, and I would have to
consider the cost of replacing it (about $300 for a new equivalent
machine) in the cost of the new computer.

 

[Lukan]

Do they still sell desktops with XP?

Yes.

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.

All of mine worked correctly.

It's worth keeping in mind that operating systems aren't designed to
work with OLD hardware - new hardware is designed to work with current
operating systems.

 

[Mick Murphy]

If your XP disk came from an OEM computer pre-installed with XP; NO, you
can't put it on her computer!
Also, if you have a retail copy of XP, which you bought seperately from the
computer,, you have to uninstall it from your computer before putting it on
her new computer.
The motherboard in the new computer might NOT have XP drivers written for
it, meaning that you can not install XP on it.

 

[NoStop]

All of mine worked correctly.

It's worth keeping in mind that operating systems aren't designed to
work with OLD hardware - new hardware is designed to work with current
operating systems.

In the Windoze world.

Cheers.

--
What does Bill Gates use?
http://tinyurl.com/2zxhdl

Proprietary Software: a 20th Century software business model.

AlexB's abacus: http://www.poppystoys.co.uk/shop/baby-toys/caterpillar.jpg
The closest to "computing" that man should go.

Frank, hard at work on his Vista computer all day:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/compost.htm

 

[Rick Rogers]

Hi,

Before purchasing, the manufacturer should be contacted about downgrade
rights. You won't be able to use your disks unless they are either retail or
generic OEM, and the license is currently not in use. As well they may not
contain needed drivers for any proprietary hardware that comes on the new
system, so you must be sure that drivers are available from the
manufacturer.

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.
Has there been any efforts to make them work?

It's because standards and requirements change with the development of a new
operating system. Thousands of pieces of hardware work just fine in Vista,
and more is being added all the time. You can check the latest working list
here:
https://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/Default.aspx

The problem is that manufacturers of these devices have to write new drivers
and supporting software that is in compliance with the newer standards in
Vista. It's the same thing any time a new operating system is released. For
the manufacturers this means a lot of work with no potential for profit, as
it was already made when the unit was sold. Therefore, this support issue
becomes secondary and often receives little, if any, attention. Some prefer
not to do it at all, and instead just offer to sell a new device that is
compliant. Similarly, software vendors also face this issue.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

 

[friesian]

Also, if you have a retail copy of XP, which you bought seperately from the
computer,, you have to uninstall it from your computer before putting it on
her new computer.

So, it is not legal to remove a newer version and replace with an
older version? I mean, buying the computer entitles you to a copy of
vista. You aren't using that one also.

I could see it being wrong to upgrade a computer to a system that is
newer with a set of CDs that were purchased for another computer. But
downgrading and choosing not to use the set that came with the
computer?

I wish I had known this would be a problem. I would have told her to
ask for a computer with xp, but she has already asked her family to
buy her a computer and her birthday is in a week. They probably
already bought one.

I

 

[Mike Hall - MVP]

My friend has asked for a new computer for her birthday, but I Have
recently learned that vista will not run her printer/fax.scanner
machine. It would cost a couple hundred dollars to replace that
machine when she has one that works fine. If she gets a new computer
with vista, can it be changed to xp fairly easily?

I do have original XP cds for my own computer. Would she lose anything
important for her computer to remove the preinstalled os and reinstall
the xp?

Do they still sell desktops with XP?

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.
Has there been any efforts to make them work? I wouldn't mind a new
operating system if it didn't make my old equipment stop working. I am
planning to get a new laptop myself this year, and I have the same
printer/fax machine. It's a great machine, and I would have to
consider the cost of replacing it (about $300 for a new equivalent
machine) in the cost of the new computer.

It will cost not far short of a couple of hundred dollars to buy XP and
install it. It will need an XP license and you will have to check that XP
drivers are available for the computer.

This you do by going to the computer vendor site and looking for XP drivers.
If you don't see any, don't try to downgrade.

It may be that the computer vendor can supply a computer already installed
with XP. Failing that look for a manufacturer that can.

Personally, if I was going to buy a new computer, I would buy it with Vista
and dump the printer. If the printer is so important, stay with the old
computer (cheapest option)..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=newswhelp&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

 

[Phisherman]

Hi,

Before purchasing, the manufacturer should be contacted about downgrade
rights. You won't be able to use your disks unless they are either retail or
generic OEM, and the license is currently not in use. As well they may not
contain needed drivers for any proprietary hardware that comes on the new
system, so you must be sure that drivers are available from the
manufacturer.


It's because standards and requirements change with the development of a new
operating system. Thousands of pieces of hardware work just fine in Vista,
and more is being added all the time. You can check the latest working list
here:
https://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/Default.aspx

The problem is that manufacturers of these devices have to write new drivers
and supporting software that is in compliance with the newer standards in
Vista. It's the same thing any time a new operating system is released. For
the manufacturers this means a lot of work with no potential for profit, as
it was already made when the unit was sold. Therefore, this support issue
becomes secondary and often receives little, if any, attention. Some prefer
not to do it at all, and instead just offer to sell a new device that is
compliant. Similarly, software vendors also face this issue.

The hardware driver is a big issue for me. I'd upgrade several PCs to
Vista, but there are two hardware devices that just won't work with
Vista. There were no problems upgrading from Win98 to Win2000, nor
from Win2000 to XP. When a peripheral is unique, critical, and costly
there is no choice. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Vista is not
as popular as it could be.

 

[Michael Jennings]

So, it is not legal to remove a newer version and replace with an
older version? I mean, buying the computer entitles you to a copy of
vista. You aren't using that one also.

I could see it being wrong to upgrade a computer to a system that is
newer with a set of CDs that were purchased for another computer. But
downgrading and choosing not to use the set that came with the
computer?

I wish I had known this would be a problem. I would have told her to
ask for a computer with xp, but she has already asked her family to
buy her a computer and her birthday is in a week. They probably
already bought one.

It is not legal to run XP licensed for one computer on two computers.
If you got it to work, Windows would complain about not being Genuine.

You could buy her an all-in-one printer which is compatible with Vista.
Maybe her parents will tell you what they got her - that would give you
something to go on. She might prefer Vista to XP - this is possible.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=buy+windows+xp

 

[Dwarf]

Hi friesian,

It depends upon whether or not XP compatible drivers are available for the
machine in question. However, you also need to be aware of the implications
it may or may not have on your warranty should you choose to install an
alternative operating system on the machine to that which came with it. You
will need to use a new copy of XP to install because of licensing and
activation restrictions which prohibit the use of a single copy of XP on more
than one machine at a time. An OEM disk, which is what you probably have, is
tied to the original system that it was installed on and lives and dies with
that system, so you would be unable to use that disk.
Dwarf

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Friesian.

You never mentioned the make and model of that printer. If you tell us
that, maybe someone here will recognize it and know how to make it work with
her new Vista.

As the others have said in one way or another, it will cost as much - in
time and effort - for her to go backwards to WinXP as to go forward to
Vista. And she would still have the almost-inevitable migration to Vista
some day looming ahead of her.

Printers, including all-in-one machines, are so cheap these days that she
can buy a new one for about what a new WinXP license would cost.
(Thankfully, the HP OfficeJet that I paid $500 for in 2000 is still working
well, but when it dies, I probably can get a newer one with more features
for $100. About the price of 2 sets of ink cartridges for the old one!)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64 SP1)

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

So, it is not legal to remove a newer version and replace with an
older version? I mean, buying the computer entitles you to a copy of
vista. You aren't using that one also.

Yes it is "legal" to remove Vista and install XP. What is not legal is:

1) to install a full-version retail copy of XP on that new computer that is
already installed and being on another computer. If you uninstall it from
the current computer it is running on, then you can install it on the new PC
2) to install an OEM copy of XP on the new computer. An OEM copy of
Windows is licensed to the specific computer it was reinstalled on when it
was purchased.

I could see it being wrong to upgrade a computer to a system that is
newer with a set of CDs that were purchased for another computer. But
downgrading and choosing not to use the set that came with the
computer?

A license for Windows has always been for one computer only. It is a
violation of the license agreement to install a copy of Windows on more than
on system. It was easy to do that with versions of Windows older than XP
because there was no validation check but it was always a violation of the
license agreement to do so. Unfortunately, the fact that your friend is
paying for a version of Vista that she won't use has no bearing on this.

I wish I had known this would be a problem. I would have told her to
ask for a computer with xp, but she has already asked her family to
buy her a computer and her birthday is in a week. They probably
already bought one.

If XP drivers are available for this new system then it can be "downgraded"
to XP but she would still have to purchase a retail version of XP to
install. Are you both sure that the printer she is using will not work in
Vista? I have both an Epson and a Brother all-in-one that are not new and
work fine on Vista because both Epson and Brother have provided the drviers.
I also have an Epson photo printer that is five years old that also works
fine in Vista.

 

[the wharf rat]

It's worth keeping in mind that operating systems aren't designed to

You mean Vista isn't designed to work with old (meaning last year's)
hardware. Even previous versions of Windows would generally support almost
arbitrarily old hardware.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

My friend has asked for a new computer for her birthday, but I Have
recently learned that vista will not run her printer/fax.scanner
machine. It would cost a couple hundred dollars to replace that
machine when she has one that works fine. If she gets a new computer
with vista, can it be changed to xp fairly easily?

It depends. Some new computers (laptops in particular) may only have
Vista drivers, and not XP drivers, for some hardware components. If
that's not an issue, there is not likely to be any reason why XP can't
be installed.

Also, be aware that some computer manufacturers may consider that if
you change the operating system, it voids your warranty.

I do have original XP cds for my own computer. Would she lose anything
important for her computer to remove the preinstalled os and reinstall
the xp?

Three points here:

1. The license to use those disks is one copy (or one license) for
each computer.

There's nothing new here. This is exactly the same rule that's been in
effect on every version of Windows starting with Windows 3.1. The only
thing new with XP is that there's now an enforcement mechanism.

The only way she could legally use your CD would be if you took XP off
of your computer.

2. If your copy of XP is an OEM one (for example, if it came with your
computer), she couldn't use it even if you took it off your computer.
An OEM license ties that copy of Windows permanently to the first
computer it's installed on. It can never legally be moved to another
computer, sold, or given away, except as part of that computer.

3. Besides the licensing issue, many OEM copies of Windows are
BIOS-locked to the original motherboard, and will not work on another,
unless it's identical to the original one.

Do they still sell desktops with XP?

Yes. Some manufacturers do. You could also have a computer
custom-built, get it without any operating system, and buy a separate
copy of Windows XP.

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.
Has there been any efforts to make them work? I wouldn't mind a new
operating system if it didn't make my old equipment stop working. I am
planning to get a new laptop myself this year, and I have the same
printer/fax machine. It's a great machine, and I would have to
consider the cost of replacing it (about $300 for a new equivalent
machine) in the cost of the new computer.

This has nothing to do with Vista in particular.

Hardware either works or doesn't work with a particular operating
system because a driver to use that piece of hardware with that
operating system either exists or doesn't exist. The responsibility to
write the necessary drivers is that of the hardware manufacturer, not
Microsoft. Each manufacturer makes it own decisions about what new
drivers it wants to incur the cost of writing. In many cases,
manufacturers will unfortunately decide that it doesn't make economic
sense to write a new driver for an older piece of hardware.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

My friend has asked for a new computer for her birthday, but I Have
recently learned that vista will not run her printer/fax.scanner
machine.

Have you verified with the manufacturer that Vista-specific device
drivers and any accompanying applications are not available?

It would cost a couple hundred dollars to replace that
machine when she has one that works fine. If she gets a new computer
with vista, can it be changed to xp fairly easily?

"Easily?" That depends almost entirely upon the specific computer your
friend receives, and partially upon your technical skill set.

There could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of which you
should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer about the
availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an OEM-installed
operating system and replacing it with another will almost invariably
void any and all support agreements and, sometimes, even the warranty.
You would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista before getting
any support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the computer's
manufacturer for specifics. Thirdly, there may be the additional cost
involved in purchasing a WinXP license for this new computer.

After backing up any data you wish to transfer to the new OS
installation, simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be
offered the opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part
of the installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of
boot devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm

Then, assuming you were successful in obtaining WinXP-specific
device drivers so that the computer can be made to work with WinXP, the
backed up data can be restored and applications (those that are
WinXP-compatible, that is) re-installed.

I do have original XP cds for my own computer.

If this is an OEM (came pre-installed on your computer from the
factory) WinXP installation CD, you may not use it on your friend's
computer. An OEM version must be sold with a piece of hardware
(normally a motherboard or hard rive, if not an entire PC) and is
_permanently_ bound to the first PC on which it's installed. An OEM
license, once installed, is not legally transferable to another computer
under _any_ circumstances.

Your friend would have to purchase a new WinXP license to go with
the new computer.

Would she lose anything
important for her computer to remove the preinstalled os and reinstall
the xp?

Well, yes. To downgrade the operating system, the hard drive would
first have to be formatted, erasing everything.

Do they still sell desktops with XP?

Several manufacturers do, yes.

Also, does anybody know WHY a lot of hardware doesn't work with vista.

Because the manufacturers' of those incompatible products have decided
not to support their customers by providing Vista-specific device
drivers. They're hoping their customers will be stupid enough to buy
another such device from them, despite their demonstrated lack of support.

Has there been any efforts to make them work?

Some manufacturers have provided updated device drivers for their
products. Check the web site of any hardware device's manufacturer to
determine the availability



--

Bruce Chambers

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