Boot up files

[yba02]

Hi,
Windows XP SP2.
Windows on partition C became unstable. I had to install a new version on
another partition to be able to recover my files.
Mission accomplished and I'm now ready to format drive C. However, and even
after modifying the boot.ini file not to include the corrupt Windows option,
I still can not format C because of boot-up system files, such as ntldr.
How can I move them to the new partition and instruct the system to read
them from the new partition, not the old one?

Thanks
Yahya

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Hi,
Windows XP SP2.
Windows on partition C became unstable. I had to install a new version on
another partition to be able to recover my files.
Mission accomplished and I'm now ready to format drive C. However, and
even
after modifying the boot.ini file not to include the corrupt Windows
option,
I still can not format C because of boot-up system files, such as ntldr.
How can I move them to the new partition and instruct the system to read
them from the new partition, not the old one?

Thanks
Yahya

You need to boot your machine with your WinXP CD. During the installation
you will get the opportunity to format any partition and also to specify
which partition the new version of Windows should go to.

It seems there is another point. You might say that there are two groups of
people: Those who back up their important files regularly and those who
don't. Eventualle everybody joins the first group. The transition from one
group to the other can be very painful. In your case it hurt but it was not
fatal. If your disk had crashed then you would have lost the lot. Why not
get a 2.5" disk in an external USB case and use it as a backup medium for
your important files? It costs surprisingly little.

 

[yba02]

Thanks for your support and concern.
Thanks for your support:
What you have described is what i exactly did. I Booted from Win XP CD,
chose the new partition and installed Windows in it. When installation
completed, system restarted, I found that files such as ntldr, io.sys,
msdos.sys, ntdetect.com, and other system files were kept on drive C, the
place of the original (now non-stable) Windows system. I moved them manually
(cut $ paste) to the new partition and rebooted the system. Not suprisingly,
the system looked for those files on drive C. When it did not find them, it
halted.
I then had to use recovery console to move those files back to drive C and
reboot the system. It works now. Yet, I'm back to square one.
I need to format drive C. To do that, while still have the system boot
normally, I wonder if there is a way to instruct Windows on where to read
those files from. Apparently, by default, it reads them from drive C, while
I need it to look for them in the other partition, the fresh Windows
partition.

Thanks for your concern:
Data is safe.

Thanks
Yahya

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Here is how your computer boots up:
1. The BIOS locates the active partition on your disk.
2. It invokes the MBR (Master Boot Record) on that partition.
The MBR gets placed there during the format process.
3. The MBR code executes the hidden file \ntldr on the active
partition.
4. NTLDR checks \boot.ini on the active partition.
5. It then invokes the Windows boot-up files in the nominated
folder on the nominated partition (which does not need to be
the active partition).

From your description below I note that you did not format the
receiving partition. This is almost compulsory.

Moving system files manually from one partition to another does
not result in a stable installation. Your registry is full of references
to the original partition, hence your OS must remain where you
placed it at install time.

 

[philo]

Hi,
Windows XP SP2.
Windows on partition C became unstable. I had to install a new version on
another partition to be able to recover my files.
Mission accomplished and I'm now ready to format drive C. However, and even
after modifying the boot.ini file not to include the corrupt Windows option,
I still can not format C because of boot-up system files, such as ntldr.
How can I move them to the new partition and instruct the system to read
them from the new partition, not the old one?

You cannot format your C: drive

no matter which partition Windows is installed on.
your "boot" files will need to remain on your active primary partition

You will need to keep:

boot.ini
ntdetect.com
ntldr


on C:


However you can *delete* all the rest thereby negating the necessity to
format the C: drive

 

[yba02]

Thanks

Here is how your computer boots up:
1. The BIOS locates the active partition on your disk.
2. It invokes the MBR (Master Boot Record) on that partition.
The MBR gets placed there during the format process.
3. The MBR code executes the hidden file \ntldr on the active
partition.
4. NTLDR checks \boot.ini on the active partition.
5. It then invokes the Windows boot-up files in the nominated
folder on the nominated partition (which does not need to be
the active partition).

From your description below I note that you did not format the
receiving partition. This is almost compulsory.

Moving system files manually from one partition to another does
not result in a stable installation. Your registry is full of references
to the original partition, hence your OS must remain where you
placed it at install time.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

You cannot format your C: drive

<snip>

Yes, you can, but only during the installation process after booting from
the installation CD.

 

[yba02]

I think the case you are talking about is a fresh install on either drive C
or any other parition, knowing that data is now safe. If so, this will void
the point of my inquiry, which was basically to keep the current newly
installed OS on the other partition, while being able to format C, thus
having brand-new-like system, with one partition containing OS, and other
partitions formated virgin.

Yahya

 

[philo]

<snip>

Yes, you can, but only during the installation process after booting from
the installation CD.

You know quite well the implication was that you cannot format the C: drive
and expect the machine to boot! There is no need to confuse the issue here!
(sheesh)

If one wanted to format the C: drive there are *plenty* of other ways to do
so.

VIZ:

pop the drive in another machine and format it,

use a third party utility such as partition magic

boot up with a live Linux CD etc, etc, etc


Yes, there are quite a few ways one could format the C: drive

but the bottom line is : ****The OP does not want to format the drive and
make the machine unbootable!****

There is a good reason you cannot format the drive from within the OS
itself!!!!

 

[yba02]

Issue is much clearer than someone can confuse it.
Yes you are right. The bottom line was to format C, while keeping the system
bootable with the current OS version.

Thanks again
Yahya

 

[philo]

I think the case you are talking about is a fresh install on either drive C
or any other parition, knowing that data is now safe. If so, this will void
the point of my inquiry, which was basically to keep the current newly
installed OS on the other partition, while being able to format C, thus
having brand-new-like system, with one partition containing OS, and other
partitions formated virgin.

You are right

had you taken that advice, your machine would have been left unbootable!!!

If you did that, to get the machine to boot
you'd need to use your cd to boot to the recovery console
and issue the command
fixboot C:

 

[philo]

Issue is much clearer than someone can confuse it.
Yes you are right. The bottom line was to format C, while keeping the system
bootable with the current OS version.

Thanks again
Yahya

I figured you knew what you were doing
but I did not want to see you ruin your system

Anyway, I have been in the same position many times
and once you are booted up...
it's usually a simple matter to just delete all on the C: drive you do not
need.

 

[Lil' Dave]

1. Bios locates the master boot record at the beginning of the hard disk
drive, and locates the primary active partition (there's only 1) from the
mbr pointer
2. The mbr is created during the partition creation process. Formatting is
not required for this part of the process. That partition must be
subsequently formatted for a file system.
3. The primary/active (system) partition contains a pointer to the first
boot file location to execute. This is done during the installation process
of the OS.
4. The remainder is OS specific.

 

[Anteaus]

Just to clarify, the reason this situation arose is because the OP installed
Windows to a non-active partition. There is no resolution possible once in
this situation, other than a repeat setup from scratch. To avoid this
happening, it is necessary to ensure that the partition you intend to
install-to is set active with FDISK or the like, before starting the install.

 

[John John (MVP)]

Providing that the second partition is not a logical drive it can easily
be changed to the active system partition. You need only move the
system files Boot.ini, NTDETECT.COM & ntldr to the partition, mark it
active and adjust the ARC path in the Boot.ini file and you will be able
to boot Windows without problems.

John

 

[yba02]

Seems some considerable input.
This leads me to the following conclusion, which I hope someone can clarify:
There is only one active partition per physical hard disk?
Also, since everything got to do with formating drive C, will it be a
work-around if I move those files out of drive C, format it and then bring
them back?

Thanks
Yahya

 

[philo]

Seems some considerable input.
This leads me to the following conclusion, which I hope someone can clarify:
There is only one active partition per physical hard disk?
Also, since everything got to do with formating drive C, will it be a
work-around if I move those files out of drive C, format it and then bring
them back?

The drive can only have *one* active *primary* partition.

Since your second dirve is likely not to be a primary partition...you'd not
be able to mark it active.


Now, in the event that it actually is a second primary partition..
yes...you could mark it active and move your "boot" files over
and re-edit boot.ini (Note: you cannot do that from within Windows however)

It would be more trouble than it's worth since as I had stated before
there is no need for you to format the C: drive...all you have to do is
delete your old Windows installation.

 

[John John (MVP)]

Does your computer have a floppy diskette drive? If yes create a boot
floppy and try to boot your computer with it. To create the floppy boot
diskette do the following:

1- Format a floppy diskette with your Windows XP installation. The
diskette *must* be formatted with an NT type operating system, if you
format the diskette with an Windows 9x installation the diskette will
fail to boot Windows XP.

2- Copy the files Boot.ini, NTDETECT.COM and ntldr from the root of the
C: drive to the floppy diskette.

3- Try booting the computer with the floppy and see if it can start
your Windows XP installation. To boot with the diskette you may have to
go in the BIOS and set the boot order so that the floppy drive is set to
boot before the hard drive.

If you can boot with the floppy you can then easily change the System
partition to the second one providing that it is a primary partition.
Use the built-in XP Disk Management tool to take a look at the
partitions and you will be able to determine the partition type.

John

 

[John John (MVP)]

The drive can only have *one* active *primary* partition.

Since your second dirve is likely not to be a primary partition...you'd not
be able to mark it active.


Now, in the event that it actually is a second primary partition..
yes...you could mark it active and move your "boot" files over
and re-edit boot.ini (Note: you cannot do that from within Windows however)

Yes, you can do that from the up and running Windows installation.

John

 

[philo]

however)

Yes, you can do that from the up and running Windows installation.

John

You are saying that you can mark a second partition active from within
Windows?

I never heard that one before