Boot problems - How to debug / see an error message ?

[Guest]

hello experts,

Can someone please tell me or point me to an 'idiot's guide' on how to debug
XP problems regarding boot up ? How to at least look for or be told an error
message or something?
I have searched the internet but yet failed to find something clear and user
friendly to help me.

My specific problem is this :

My pc often (usually) freezes part way through the boot up procedure. I can
force a restart via the button on the pc which then usually leads to a
successful boot up.
Often, on the way to the successful boot, I see a screen offering options
such as 'use last known good configuration' or 'start normally'.
Using one in preference to the other hasn't yet led me to any conclusions.

This is all particularly frustrating, as I have made the effort (although I
quite enjoy it) to 'start again' in the hope I could clear such problems.

I have:

reformated my C drive;

reinstalled XP from disc, using Windows Update to add the service packs and
updates;

made sure, to the best of my knowledge, that I have loaded the latest (best
?) hardware drivers from the manufacturer websites.

Thanks a lot for any clear and simple help,
Lee

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Lee

What you are seeking doesn't exist!

When you reinstall Windows XP it is best to sort out drivers before
installing
SP2 and later updates. Did you do this?

When was the computer new?

Please look in the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for Warning
and Error Reports over the last 2 days use and post copies here.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Administrative Tools, and
Event Viewer. When researching the meaning of the error, information
regarding Event ID, Source and Description are important.

HOW TO: View and Manage Event Logs in Event Viewer in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;enus;308427&Product=winxp

Part of the Description of the error will include a link, which you should
double
click for further information. You can copy using copy and paste. Often the
link will, however, say there is no further information.
http://go.microsoft.com/fw.link/events.asp
(Please note the hyperlink above is for illustration purposes only)

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Double click the button and close Event Viewer.
Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of the message.
This will paste the info from the Event Viewer Error Report complete with
links
into the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from Event
Viewer.

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties. Hardware,
Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Guest]

Thanks for your very detailed reply, Gerry.
Please see below :

Lee

What you are seeking doesn't exist!

When you reinstall Windows XP it is best to sort out drivers before
installing
SP2 and later updates. Did you do this?

Looking back at my manual system restore entries I made, I started
investigating / loading drivers _after_ bringing my 'new' xp install up to
SP2.

When was the computer new?

It was bought as brand new in 2003.

Please look in the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for Warning
and Error Reports over the last 2 days use and post copies here.

Apart from one error and warning which I can actually relate to something
specific which I know about and understand (!), there are 2 other warnings.
I had trouble understanding them or the explanation links, or indeed copy /
pasting the text, so here are 2 screengrabs :

http://incelsite.com/e1.gif

http://incelsite.com/e2.gif

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager?

Yes ! Previously I had no idea what they meant;
It showed I had a 'Simple PCI Controller' which had no driver. On allowing
windows to automatically search the internet from there in Device Manager, it
found an Intel Modem driver which it chose to install. The yellow question
marks went away.
I shutdown windows, then did a fresh start up. (not a 'restart').
No problems regarding crashing or freezing up on this occasion.

Do you think that was coincidence or do you strongly think the missing
driver was the problem all along ?
I used Driver Detective (driversHQ) yesterday to find and upgrade a number
of SiS drivers, but as I understand it their system wouldn't have found this
PCI problem because DD needs there to be at least 'any' driver already
associated with a device in Device Manager.

thanks a lot again,
Lee

 

[Guest]

(not sure why my last reply came through blank ... it was probably my fault
....)

Thanks for your very detailed reply, Gerry.
Please see below :

Lee

What you are seeking doesn't exist!

When you reinstall Windows XP it is best to sort out drivers before
installing
SP2 and later updates. Did you do this?

Looking back at my manual system restore entries I made, I started
investigating / loading drivers _after_ bringing my 'new' xp install up to
SP2.

When was the computer new?

It was bought as brand new in 2003.

Please look in the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for Warning
and Error Reports over the last 2 days use and post copies here.

Apart from one error and warning which I can actually relate to something
specific which I know about and understand (!), there are 2 other warnings.
I had trouble understanding them or the explanation links, or indeed copy /
pasting the text, so here are 2 screengrabs :

http://incelsite.com/e1.gif

http://incelsite.com/e2.gif

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager?

Yes ! Previously I had no idea what they meant;
It showed I had a 'Simple PCI Controller' which had no driver. On allowing
windows to automatically search the internet from there in Device Manager, it
found an Intel Modem driver which it chose to install. The yellow question
marks went away.
I shutdown windows, then did a fresh start up. (not a 'restart').
No problems regarding crashing or freezing up on this occasion.

Do you think that was coincidence or do you strongly think the missing
driver was the problem all along ?
I used Driver Detective (driversHQ) yesterday to find and upgrade a number
of SiS drivers, but as I understand it their system wouldn't have found this
PCI problem because DD needs there to be at least 'any' driver already
associated with a device in Device Manager.

thanks a lot again,
Lee

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Lee

Are you still getting error reports in Event Viewer since updating the
driver?

--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Guest]

Lee

Are you still getting error reports in Event Viewer since updating the
driver?

--

hello again Gerry,

No, however here's a sequence that's just happened :

pc has been shutdown for about 3 hours;

started it up;

got as far as the 'welcome' screen and windows 'jingle', then pc froze with
the egg timer over the welcome screen;

I also noticed a low level 'buzzing' noise at this time from somewhere in
the pc;

I forced a restart using the button on the pc;

pc booted up automatically with no problems;

I looked into Event Viewer and, for the first time, looked at the Security
section;

There are a string of 'failures' shown, of which the one shown below is the
most recent. The time on it certainly relates to either the new failed boot
up or this current successful boot up :

http://incelsite.com/e3.gif

By the way, I was recently advised to try and debug my problems using the
Alerter service, although I have so far failed to understand it.
The current status of that, is that I earlier turned the Alerter to
'automatic' and turned off 'automatically restart', all as shown here :

http://incelsite.com/e4.gif

http://incelsite.com/e5.gif

Thanks again,
Lee

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Lee

I would look in the System log and not the Security log.

BTW I find your gif files a little off putting. Some read using plain text
and
you could find such potential helpers will just move on to the next message.


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Guest]

Lee

I would look in the System log and not the Security log.

Under Event Viewer? Only the Security section there had a new entry.

BTW I find your gif files a little off putting. Some read using plain text
and
you could find such potential helpers will just move on to the next message.

Ok; I thought they were a good way to clearly show exactly what I was
seeing, but in future I will try to only paste the text of any messages.

thanks again,
Lee

 

[Guest]

Under Event Viewer? Only the Security section there had a new entry.

Just to clarify, that should really have read :

Under Event Viewer? Only the Security section there had a new entry marked
as either a warning, error or failure.

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Lee

As long as you have something like 19 items being recorded during the boot
period then this suggest you are on the right track.

What is the situation with regard to the application log?

Are you still getting the "pc froze with the egg timer over the welcome
screen?"


--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Guest]

Lee

As long as you have something like 19 items being recorded during the boot
period then this suggest you are on the right track.

Where specifically would these be shown?
Bear in mind I have no real understanding of what I'm looking at / for !

What is the situation with regard to the application log?

Do you mean under Event Viewer ? if so, there are still no further warnings,
errors or failures shown. There are however many 'information' messages.

Are you still getting the "pc froze with the egg timer over the welcome
screen?"

Not on further shutdown and boot up tests, where all has been fine. However
I haven't changed anything !
This is why it all seems to be such a mystery ...
I can predict now, that if I shut down my pc for a few hours, it will likely
exhibit the freezing up on the next start up.

lee

 

[Guest]

I can predict now, that if I shut down my pc for a few hours, it will likely
exhibit the freezing up on the next start up.

That indeed happened, and continues to do so.
Does anyone else have any advice to give, regarding how to debug why my pc
freezes up on boot up ?
If you are interested in helping me, you will no doubt benefit by reading
the previous posts in this topic. ie otherwise I will have to explain all the
details again, which may well be tedious for regular readers.

thanks a lot,
lee

 

[Guest]

hi lee,

let's see here. well i figure you have been at this for quite some time now.
must say most others would have given up by now and would have been happy
just to restart the system to get it working but you are hell bent on finding
out the reason.
Well you can try to do this:

=>If you have any peripherals attached to your system like a printer or a
scanner or even an external modem for that matter disconnect them and then
start your computer up(ie after that delay of a few or how many ever hours
you wish).

Tell me if this works
yogi

BTW a Merry Christmas and an even Happier New Year. Enjoy!!

 

[Guest]

hi lee,

let's see here. well i figure you have been at this for quite some time now.
must say most others would have given up by now and would have been happy
just to restart the system to get it working but you are hell bent on finding
out the reason.
Well you can try to do this:

=>If you have any peripherals attached to your system like a printer or a
scanner or even an external modem for that matter disconnect them and then
start your computer up(ie after that delay of a few or how many ever hours
you wish).

Tell me if this works
yogi

Thanks Yogi,

I will try this and report back later.
ie, after I shut down this current pc session, I will unplug any usb
connections. That will leave the following cables connected:
monitor,
mouse,
keyboard,
pc speakers,
mains power.

I've also tried to read up on Safe Mode, and how to use it for debugging
things, but I haven't managed to work out how to gain anything meaningful
from that.

I am seeing regular Failure Audits under Security in Event Viewer, which
seem to be generated around boot up time. Below is the latest message shown
there, but I haven't managed to make head nor tail of what the 'IPSec monitor
snap-in' is or does.

Event Type: Failure Audit
Event Source: Security
Event Category: Policy Change
Event ID: 615
Date: 25/12/2005
Time: 19:37:04
User: NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK SERVICE
Computer: LEE-(full id removed here in case posting it here may be a
security risk ...?)
Description:
IPSec Services: IPSec Services failed to get the complete list of network
interfaces on the machine. This can be a potential security hazard to the
machine since some of the network interfaces may not get the protection as
desired by the applied IPSec filters. Please run IPSec monitor snap-in to
further diagnose the problem.

I am wondering, without the benefit of any specific understanding, that
there may be something going wrong regarding 'users' on my pc .... maybe
settings are not being saved or loaded correctly at shutdown or boot up ...
I am the only person using my pc, but there are accounts for 'computer
administrator' and 'lee', both of which state they are 'computer
administrator' status.
When I boot up, whether I previously logged off or not, 'lee' is the account
which seems to be loaded.

thanks in case that inspires anything in the meantime,
lee

 

[Guest]

hello again Yogi,

Just reporting that my pc still froze on boot up, having previously
disconnected the usb connections as described earlier.
The freeze-up happened during the 'Windows XP' screen, where there is an
oblique shape beneath the logo with cycling blue 'blips'.

On forcing a reboot via the button on the pc, I was offered the familiar
choices (!) of various safe boot options, use last known good configuration,
or start windows normally.
I chose 'start windows normally', pc booted up.
My various experiences have shown it seems not to make any difference to
future problems if I choose 'start windows normally' or 'use last known good
configuration'.

thanks a lot,
lee

 

[Guest]

hey lee,
does your system freeze at boot up if you choose the safe mode option??

yogi

 

[Guest]

hey lee,
does your system freeze at boot up if you choose the safe mode option??

yogi

hello again Yogi,

I don't think it does, but I will try now.
I will do a reboot and put my pc into safe mode, then shut it down again.
When I restart later I will report any results.
Bet you can't wait for that .... !

lee

 

[Guest]

Hello again,

I just tried a cold boot up, having previously set up for Safe Mode, and the
pc booted up fine into safe mode.
I was offered the user log in choices of 'computer administrator' or 'lee',
from which I chose 'lee'.

I previously set up for Safe Mode by running msconfig, and selecting the
following under boot.ini :
/SAFEBOOT with NETWORK selected;
/BOOTLOG

I have looked at WINDOWS/ntbtlog.txt, as I have done before, but all it
contains is a long list of drivers which either have or haven't been loaded.
No other specific details.

I don't know if it is relevant that, for some reason or other, my pc usually
boots up into the 'lee' user without giving me the user choices I get when
using Safe Mode.

thanks again,
lee

 

[Guest]

Wow that was what i was looking for. Now we can troubleshooting
Well the fact that your computer boots just fine to the desktop after a cold
boot up means there is obviously something that loads when you normally boot
your pc and that is not loaded when you start your computer in safe mode. Now
that's what we need to diagnose.

I think it would be much faster if we talk on a messenger than like this
though i dont exactly approve of this but it will save us both a lot of
hassle. Later we can post the results right here for everyone to see. Tell me
if you want to try this out.
Else we can just continue like this.

yogi

 

[Guest]

hello again Yogi,

I don't have an IM installed at the moment, and I'm loathe to put any more
stuff on my pc in case it causes more problems !
I do appreciate your help though, so feel free to tell me what to look for
now and where, with a view to further debugging my pc.
I hope I won't have to compare the boot logs in safe mode v normal mode, as
I doubt I could ever work out anything from just comparing long lists of
drivers !!

thanks again,
lee