Boot problem

[romat]

On a single boot system I've got 2 IDE drives and one SATA. One IDE
and the SATA have been used as backup/storage drives. My goal is to turn
the SATA into the system boot drive. Before cloning the SATA drive,
someone suggested disconnecting the secondary IDE drive (I had unable
to boot to the cloned SATA drive). However after doing that, an "NTLDR
is missing" message stops the startup. I've run through a number of
boot/NTLDR fixes via the Recovery Console, but none have taken. Before
doing an involved and potentially risky XP Repair install, I have a
question: Why might NTLDR seem to run fine with both IDEs hooked
up, but break down with the secondary drive disconnected? Thanks.

RM

 

[DL]

Because you failed to follow the clone procedure correctly & your boot
record is still on the IDE
You clone to sata, shutdown, disconnect boot drive, reboot & enter bios and
adjust boot order if required by your mobo / sata controler.

 

[Paul]

Because you failed to follow the clone procedure correctly & your boot
record is still on the IDE
You clone to sata, shutdown, disconnect boot drive, reboot & enter bios and
adjust boot order if required by your mobo / sata controler.

Just to briefly elaborate on that (because I've made this mistake not
too long ago):

1) Clone old drive to new.
2) Shut down computer.
3) Disconnect old drive, for this reboot only.
4) Now, power up and boot the new clone. Typically, you'd enter
the BIOS and correct the boot order setting, or at least
verify it is going to boot from the new hard drive. Let
it boot. Then shut down again via the OS menu.
5) Connect the old drive.
6) Power up, go into the BIOS and again check that the new
drive is the one to be used for booting. Some BIOS need
to be checked, each time the drive config is changed.
7) Now, when you reboot, it should boot from new, and not
be confused by the presence of the old drive.

When I made my mistake, and didn't do this, I had to clone the
old to the new again. I understand there is some recipe you
can do from maybe the recovery console, but I couldn't give a
damn at the time, and because my drives were small, just copied
it again.

So the old drive only needs to be disconnected for the first
boot, and then all should be fine after that.

Paul

 

[romat]

So the old drive only needs to be disconnected for the first
boot, and then all should be fine after that.

Thanks to both of your for the suggestions and detailed instruction.
Unfortunately, as before, it didn't work. With BIOS settings adjusted,
SATA drive starting alone comes to a halt between BIOS and Windows with
a blank screen except for a blinking cursor on the left edge (NTLDR
problem was result of my error and should be gnored). Any other
suggestions?

Roger

 

[Paul]

Thanks to both of your for the suggestions and detailed instruction.
Unfortunately, as before, it didn't work. With BIOS settings adjusted,
SATA drive starting alone comes to a halt between BIOS and Windows with
a blank screen except for a blinking cursor on the left edge (NTLDR
problem was result of my error and should be gnored). Any other
suggestions?

Roger

Before the cloning, was a SATA driver installed ? (I'm assuming the cloning is
done with something other than the OS, so the environment is not the same).
After the cloning, could you see and examine the SATA drive in explorer ?
(i.e. Booting the old IDE and viewing the SATA.)

Is the motherboard capable of using the native Microsoft SATA driver ? The
native driver, one that might work with Intel Southbridge SATA, would be
present in SP1 or SP2 I believe. I think it is for PCI mapped drives, and
Intel Southbridges emulate a PCI mapped register interface.

My guess would be you have a driver problem.

Paul

 

[romat]

Before the cloning, was a SATA driver installed ? (I'm assuming the cloning is
done with something other than the OS, so the environment is not the same).
After the cloning, could you see and examine the SATA drive in explorer ?
(i.e. Booting the old IDE and viewing the SATA.)

Is the motherboard capable of using the native Microsoft SATA driver ? The
native driver, one that might work with Intel Southbridge SATA, would be
present in SP1 or SP2 I believe. I think it is for PCI mapped drives, and
Intel Southbridges emulate a PCI mapped register interface.

My guess would be you have a driver problem.

The driver install was automatic and the SATA drive had been in use as
a storage drive for a couple of weeks. I just rechecked the driver
in Device Mgr and says it's the latest, tho the date is 7/2001 (if
it's meaningful). The MOBO is a K9NGM2-FID (Athlon 64) and supports both
IDE and SATA I/II. I don't know about driver problems or updates but
will check further to be sure. You could be right, given that date.
Thanks.

Roger

 

[romat]

I meant to say that yes, SATA can be seen in WinExpl.

 

[Andy]

On a single boot system I've got 2 IDE drives and one SATA. One IDE
and the SATA have been used as backup/storage drives. My goal is to turn
the SATA into the system boot drive. Before cloning the SATA drive,
someone suggested disconnecting the secondary IDE drive (I had unable
to boot to the cloned SATA drive). However after doing that, an "NTLDR
is missing" message stops the startup. I've run through a number of
boot/NTLDR fixes via the Recovery Console, but none have taken. Before
doing an involved and potentially risky XP Repair install, I have a
question: Why might NTLDR seem to run fine with both IDEs hooked
up, but break down with the secondary drive disconnected? Thanks.

RM

Your problem seems to be that the Windows system and boot partitions
are on two different drives. With all the drives connected, what
physical disk drives do Disk Management say the system and boot
partitions are on?

 

[romat]

Your problem seems to be that the Windows system and boot partitions
are on two different drives. With all the drives connected, what
physical disk drives do Disk Management say the system and boot
partitions are on?

Sorry, that's out of date. NTLDR is missing was erroneous, an error of
drive reading on my part. All boot info is on one IDE drive. The
problem is the cloned SATA drive won't start on its own. People are
suggesting a Repair install, tho I've been reluctant because it's not
obvious why to repair a drive that works, given the time and
possible risks. I might just have to bite the bullet though.

RM

 

[DL]

Lets see if I have understood you;
After cloning, you shutdown, disconnected IDE hd's, rebooted, entered bios &
adjusted any neccessary sata boot drive options, continued to boot.
What exactly happens? any error msg?
What did you clone with?
You have checked your mobo manual for any 'gotchas' when using a sata drive
as boot device?

 

[Lil' Dave]

Sorry, that's out of date. NTLDR is missing was erroneous, an error of
drive reading on my part. All boot info is on one IDE drive. The
problem is the cloned SATA drive won't start on its own. People are
suggesting a Repair install, tho I've been reluctant because it's not
obvious why to repair a drive that works, given the time and
possible risks. I might just have to bite the bullet though.

RM

What risk?
The original ide can still boot XP when instructed by the bios, right?
Remove it, and for now, disable ide. Reboot. Tell the bios to boot from
the SATA drive first as far as hard drives. Set the bios as far as bootable
media, to boot from CD first. Do a repair XP install of the SATA drive.
Dave

 

[romat]

Lets see if I have understood you;
After cloning, you shutdown, disconnected IDE hd's, rebooted, entered bios &
adjusted any neccessary sata boot drive options, continued to boot.
What exactly happens? any error msg?
What did you clone with?
You have checked your mobo manual for any 'gotchas' when using a sata drive
as boot device?

Yes to the first. No error message, just after the BIOS runs on
screen, the screen remains blank except for a blinking cursor on the
left edge. Starting with XP CD goes blank at that point (SATA drive).
Cloned with Acronis True Image 11 (demo which is supposed to be fully
operational). MOBO is ok. Someone elsewhere with a similar experience
suggested problem is MBR and disk ID, but the cloned drive doesn't
seem accessible since it's not recognized as a system drive. Ran
chkdsk but missed end, tho nothing in events that indicates problem.

 

[DL]

So have you actually entered the bios and made any adjustments to enable
boot from sata?
There are specific instructions for using a sata as boot drive in your
motherboard manual and on MSI site it depends which sata controler you are
using, and may involve a repair installation of winxp to instal raid drivers
from floppy, via F6 early in the process.
http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#3_3 for a brief outline

 

[romat]

So have you actually entered the bios and made any adjustments to enable
boot from sata?
There are specific instructions for using a sata as boot drive in your
motherboard manual and on MSI site it depends which sata controler you are
using, and may involve a repair installation of winxp to instal raid drivers
from floppy, via F6 early in the process.
http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#3_3 for a brief outline

Yes, "enter BIOS" is a short phrase for resetting boot order (otherwise
why open it). I'm using the SATA1 position on the board and BIOS
sees it. Thanks for the link. Not sure is the SATA controller is 8237,
but I'll check. It's being seen as a nonbootable drive right now, so
wouldn't that mean it's enabled? Not a RAID installation.

 

[romat]

So have you actually entered the bios and made any adjustments to enable
boot from sata?
There are specific instructions for using a sata as boot drive in your
motherboard manual and on MSI site it depends which sata controler you are
using, and may involve a repair installation of winxp to instal raid drivers
from floppy, via F6 early in the process.
http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#3_3 for a brief outline

Oh, you mean the driver off the MSI CD. Don't those get updated with
Live Update? I have the CD from last 2006, but will have to check
for the latest. Thanks for the idea, just to check.

 

[romat]

So have you actually entered the bios and made any adjustments to enable
boot from sata?
There are specific instructions for using a sata as boot drive in your
motherboard manual and on MSI site it depends which sata controler you are
using, and may involve a repair installation of winxp to instal raid drivers
from floppy, via F6 early in the process.
http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#3_3 for a brief outline

Why would I want to install RAID drivers? There is nothing so far in
the thread that's suggested that's involved.

RM

 

[DL]

Depends which sata controler you are using, the sata controler requires the
raid drivers whether you are using raid or not.
The mobo instructions, if you read them specifically state to F6 when using
specific sata controler as a boot drive

 

[romat]

Depends which sata controler you are using, the sata controler requires the
raid drivers whether you are using raid or not.
The mobo instructions, if you read them specifically state to F6 when using
specific sata controler as a boot drive

The K8NGM2-FID is a 7207 board. I don't find what you're saying in the
MOBO manual as a general statement about SATA. But let's say you're
correct. How does this process integrate with cloning the drive if
XP/CD doesn't recognize the drive when started alone?

 

[DL]

A winxp installation cd will not recognise a sata connected controler until
you F6 to install the sata/raid drivers from floppy, or unless the mobo has
multiple sata controlers & a boot drive has to be connected to a specific
controler port
If using intel onboard sata/raid I believe winxp should recognise it by
default

-------------
From MSI :-
Installing Windows 200/XP on a single S-ATA Hard Drive . Right after
booting off of the Windows cd, you need to push the F6 key when prompted
(Fig-a)
. Next when prompted (Fig-b) install the correct driver from the
floppy disk provided with the motherboard, press the S key to specify the
driver, and select the correct driver depending on which controller you are
using, then press enter key to continue.
. After this Windows 2000/XP will continue the installation, and will
detect the S-ATA hard drive to be installed onto.
---------------

 

[romat]

A winxp installation cd will not recognise a sata connected controler until
you F6 to install the sata/raid drivers from floppy, or unless the mobo has
multiple sata controlers & a boot drive has to be connected to a specific
controler port
If using intel onboard sata/raid I believe winxp should recognise it by
default

-------------
From MSI :-
Installing Windows 200/XP on a single S-ATA Hard Drive . Right after
booting off of the Windows cd, you need to push the F6 key when prompted
(Fig-a)
. Next when prompted (Fig-b) install the correct driver from the
floppy disk provided with the motherboard, press the S key to specify the
driver, and select the correct driver depending on which controller you are
using, then press enter key to continue.
. After this Windows 2000/XP will continue the installation, and will
detect the S-ATA hard drive to be installed onto.
---------------

I started the thread by saying that I wanted to turn the SATA drive
into the boot drive and have it cloned from the IDE boot drive.
I asked that again in my last point and you still haven't answered.
I'd be interested in your thought about how to do that.