Cloning


L

Lil' Dave

Am a little gun shy due to what the Seagate (Acronis) diskwizard did.
Attempted to clone one identical hard drive to another on same bus system.
The results were that the source XP partition was unable to boot after that.
Message stated could not find hal.dll or was corrupted. Similar with clone.
Used the Diskwizard boot CD for doing the clone.

Also, I backed up the partition to another ide hard as images using
diskwizard. Those restorations were botched as well using the Seagate
(Acronis) diskwizard.

Hardware: onboard SATA (not II). Two identical 250GB Seagate SATA IIs
jumpered as SATA (not II). Configured as master and slave on the primary
ide via bios settings. XP works great on the first drive.

I can copy individual partition from one Seagate drive to the other using
Partition Commander. The result is a workable XP on 2nd Seagate. Also
found that I could restore previous images done with DriveImage 7.0 to
either SATA drives. Logical partitions with software install software and
personal data is also hidden on the 2nd Seagate drive.

Using boot manager and partition commander to hide partitions. No other OS
is ever visible to the other.

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro-G
Two Seagate Sata II hard drives configured via bios as master and slave on
primary ide. Nothing on the actual primary ide bus.
TDK 4X dvd writer as master on secondary ide.
Sources for image files:
Firewire hard drive
Hard drives in removable trays connected to a Promise Ultra133 TX2 card.
Images on Sony DVDs connected to same card.
TDK 4X DVD

Am looking for cloning software that works from boot media that I can clone
one Seagate to the other successfully. I can work out the partition hiding
afterwards. The purpose is to have an onboard workable clone if needed.

Please don't suggest Acronis software.
Dave
 
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A

Anna

Lil' Dave said:
Am a little gun shy due to what the Seagate (Acronis) diskwizard did.
Attempted to clone one identical hard drive to another on same bus system.
The results were that the source XP partition was unable to boot after
that. Message stated could not find hal.dll or was corrupted. Similar
with clone. Used the Diskwizard boot CD for doing the clone.

Also, I backed up the partition to another ide hard as images using
diskwizard. Those restorations were botched as well using the Seagate
(Acronis) diskwizard.

Hardware: onboard SATA (not II). Two identical 250GB Seagate SATA IIs
jumpered as SATA (not II). Configured as master and slave on the primary
ide via bios settings. XP works great on the first drive.

I can copy individual partition from one Seagate drive to the other using
Partition Commander. The result is a workable XP on 2nd Seagate. Also
found that I could restore previous images done with DriveImage 7.0 to
either SATA drives. Logical partitions with software install software and
personal data is also hidden on the 2nd Seagate drive.

Using boot manager and partition commander to hide partitions. No other
OS is ever visible to the other.

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro-G
Two Seagate Sata II hard drives configured via bios as master and slave on
primary ide. Nothing on the actual primary ide bus.
TDK 4X dvd writer as master on secondary ide.
Sources for image files:
Firewire hard drive
Hard drives in removable trays connected to a Promise Ultra133 TX2 card.
Images on Sony DVDs connected to same card.
TDK 4X DVD

Am looking for cloning software that works from boot media that I can
clone one Seagate to the other successfully. I can work out the partition
hiding afterwards. The purpose is to have an onboard workable clone if
needed.

Please don't suggest Acronis software.
Dave


Dave:
Since I notice you're a frequent contributor & commentator on these MS XP
newsgroups perhaps you came across a recent posting of mine - I can't
remember the specific NG I posted it to - re my comments on the Casper 4.0
disk cloning program. If you did see it, what is of any interest to you? If
you (or anyone else interested in this subject) want me to post them again,
I'll be glad to do so.
Anna
 
X

xfile

Hi Anna,

The following is your thoughtful post for the subject: Re: Norton Ghost 12
vs. Save and Restore 2.0 for XP image.

Thanks again.

-----------------------------------
Let me say at the outset that we haven't worked with either Symantec's Ghost
12 program nor the Save and Restore 2.0 program so it's possible one of
those programs may be suitable for your needs.

We have worked with the Ghost 2003 program for many years in an XP
environment and found that program to be quite effective as a disk cloning
(not a disk imaging) program especially when working with a Ghost 2003
bootable floppy disk or bootable CD. We were never thrilled with the Ghost
2003 GUI.

Similarly, we were (as many users were) disappointed with Symantec's Ghost 9
& 10 versions for a number of reasons and soon discontinued using those
programs. In the past couple of years we've been using the Acronis True
Image program both for disk cloning & disk imaging and by & large we've
found it to be an effective backup program. I believe you've received a
number of responses to your query recommending that program. You most
certainly should give that program a try, especially since Acronis has a
15-day trial version available. (At least I think they still do).

However, the *real* reason for this post is to suggest that you (and others
who are also considering a comprehensive backup program) might like to look
at another program - the Casper 4.0 program. So I'm going to provide you
with some details about that program based on our experience with it over
the past few months.

We've been working with the Casper 4.0 disk cloning program for about five
months now and by & large we've been quite impressed with this program.
First of all, potential users should note that this is a *disk cloning*
program - not a disk imaging program - in the sense that the program is
designed to create (for all practical purposes) a bit-for-bit copy of the
HDD so that if the recipient of the clone is an internal HDD, that cloned
HDD will be bootable and its data immediately accessible, unlike the
situation where a disk image is created on the recipient HDD and a recovery
process is necessary to restore the image to a bootable, data-accessible
state. Note, however, that should the recipient of the clone be a USB
external HDD - since that device is not ordinarily bootable - its contents
(although accessible from the boot HDD) would need to be "cloned back" to an
internal HDD should the recovery/restore process be necessary to create a
bootable HDD.

The Casper 4.0 program also has the happy capability of cloning individual
partitions on one HDD to another HDD, not merely creating a "disk image" of
the partition(s).

In general, the chief advantage of a disk-imaging approach rather than a
disk-cloning one has always been that following the initial creation of a
disk image, subsequent incremental disk images can be created and this
allows for a significant (and desirable) increase in backup speed as
compared with the time it takes for a user to create a disk clone every time
the user backs up his or her system.

There's also a relatively minor (in our view) advantage of creating disk
images rather than disk clones in that the resultant disk image file can be
compressed in size, thus saving some disk space. However, this advantage
generally disappears (or at least is substantially reduced) after a number
of incremental backup disk image files are created following the initial
(original) backup file ("archive"). And given today's relatively inexpensive
large-capacity hard drives we do not feel this advantage is of major import
for most users. Additionally, disk imaging obviously lends itself better to
using DVDs as the backup media, however given the rather large amount of
data usually being backed up by most users in today's systems most users
prefer to use hard drives (internal or external) as the recipient of the
disk image backup when employing that approach rather than disk cloning. In
any event if one's primary or exclusive interest is in disk imaging rather
than disk cloning then one need not consider the Casper 4.0 program.

The significant advantage of the Casper 4.0 disk cloning program over other
disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g., Acronis True Image or
Symantec's Norton Ghost, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. Employing what
Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create subsequent
disk clones of the source HDD usually at a fraction of the time it takes to
create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided incentive for users to
undertake frequent complete backups of their systems knowing that they can
create "incremental" disk clones in a relatively short period of time.

The Casper 4.0 program's capability in creating these *incremental* disk
clones results in a significant savings of time as compared to the usual
time it takes to create a cloned disk using other disk-cloning programs.
Knowing that this incremental disk cloning process will take only a
relatively short period of time provides the user with increased motivation
to back up their systems on a much more frequent & systematic basis than
they might otherwise do - a most desirable result as I think most PC users
would all agree.

Another positive feature we've discovered with the Casper 4.0 program - at
least based upon our experience to date is that unlike other disk cloning
programs such as the Acronis & Ghost programs, when the recipient of the
clone - the destination HDD - is an *internal* HDD, the user need not
disconnect the source HDD from the system and make an *initial* boot
following the disk cloning operation with only the destination HDD
connected. Again, we're referring here to a disk cloning operation where the
recipient of the clone (the "destination" drive) has been an *internal* HDD.

As many of us know, there has been a problem with disk cloning programs in
general with this situation in that if immediately following the disk
cloning operation both the (internal) source & destination HDDs are
connected and an *initial* boot is made to the source drive, there can be a
subsequent problem with the destination drive in that it will fail to boot
if at a later time it is the only HDD connected in the system. Because of
this anomaly our advice - as well as from others including the developers of
these disk cloning programs - has heretofore always been to disconnect the
source HDD from the system *immediately* following the disk cloning
operation and make that initial boot with *only* the destination (internal)
HDD present. (And, of course, to determine that the clone has "took" - the
cloned HDD is bootable & functional).

While this problem does not always happen along the lines described above,
it does occur with sufficient frequency that we feel this cautionary note is
required. Note that where the recipient of the cloned contents of the source
HDD is an *external* HDD, such as a USB external HDD, this potential problem
does not exist since the USB external HDD is not ordinarily a bootable
device. Again - based on our experience with the Casper 4.0 program to date
using a fairly wide variety of systems together with both PATA & SATA HDDs
in a variety of combinations, e.g., SATA-to-SATA, PATA-to-PATA,
SATA-to-PATA, etc., we haven't experienced a single problem (as described
above) in this area.

Using the Casper program is simplicity itself. There's virtually no learning
curve in undertaking the disk cloning process as one navigates through the
few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the button which
will trigger the disk-cloning process. After undertaking one or two
disk-cloning operations it should take the user no more than 20 seconds or
so to get to that point.

Here's a more-or-less typical example of using the program to clone the
contents of one HDD to another HDD (internal or external)...
1. Access the Casper 4.0 program.
2. Click on the opening screen's "Copy Drive" icon.
3. Click on the Next button on the "Welcome..." window.
4. Select the "Copy an entire hard disk" option, then the Next button.
5. The next window will reflect the HDD to be copied, presumably your boot
drive. Click Next.
6. The next window will list the "destination" HDD, i.e., the drive that
will be the recipient of the cloned contents of the drive you're copying.
Highlight that drive listing and Click Next.
7. A warning screen will appear indicating the destination HDD is "currently
in use" and that "all data on that disk may be lost if you continue". It's
just a cautionary note so click Next.
8. Since you're cloning the entire contents of your source HDD to the
destination HDD, just click Next on the next screen to accomplish that.
9. Select the "Perform the copy now" option and click Next and then Next
again on the following screen.

The disk-cloning operation will proceed with a final screen indicating its
successful conclusion.

BTW, the program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning process on a
daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user.

The program is not particularly inexpensive as disk cloning programs go.
Cost for a single-license is $49.95. AFAIK, the program is available for
download only from the developer at http://www.fssdev.com and this does not
include the "Casper Startup Disk" which sells for an additional $9.95. That
"Startup Disk" is a really essential piece of the program since in many
cases it would be the only way to effect a recovery of the system when the
installed Casper program could not be accessed from the Windows environment
because the program resides on a HDD that has failed or has become
unbootable. The usual scenario for using the Startup Disk is when the
recipient of the clone has been an external HDD - most likely a USB external
HDD - and the original source disk has become defective or dysfunctional
(unbootable) so that there is no opportunity to access the installed Casper
program. Since the USB external HDD containing the cloned contents of the
source drive is not bootable, one must use the Startup Disk in that
situation in order to clone the contents of the external HDD back to a
non-defective internal HDD in order to recover the system.

The developer does have a 30-day trial version available - see
http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/. The trial version is somewhat
crippled but should give one some reasonable insight as to how the program
works. However note that the trial version does not include the program to
create the "Startup Disk" described above.

This Casper 4.0 program is advertised as being compatible with Vista,
however, except for some cursory experience we've had using Casper with that
operating system, we feel we haven't had sufficient experience with that OS
to form any absolute judgment as to its effectiveness (or lack of) in that
environment. I will say the relatively few times we've used Casper in the
Vista OS with a number of different systems it has performed flawlessly.
-----------------------------------------
 
L

Lil' Dave

Anna said:
Dave:
Since I notice you're a frequent contributor & commentator on these MS XP
newsgroups perhaps you came across a recent posting of mine - I can't
remember the specific NG I posted it to - re my comments on the Casper 4.0
disk cloning program. If you did see it, what is of any interest to you?
If you (or anyone else interested in this subject) want me to post them
again, I'll be glad to do so.
Anna

Although it may work, sounds suspiciously like a linux based program
designed primarily for Mac systems. I still get email from Novastor
mailsite in that regards. Casper 5.0 is now available I see. Prefer
something Window PE based if on bootable media.

Price is a bit high considering all I want is clone software, nothing else.
Dave
 
A

Anna

Lil' Dave said:
Although it may work, sounds suspiciously like a linux based program
designed primarily for Mac systems. I still get email from Novastor
mailsite in that regards. Casper 5.0 is now available I see. Prefer
something Window PE based if on bootable media.

Price is a bit high considering all I want is clone software, nothing
else.
Dave


Dave:
AFAIK, Casper 4.0 (http://www.fssdev.com) is the latest version. You may be
confusing this program with one that's entirely different. I believe there
was (or is) another program using the same "Casper" name that was designed
for Macs, but that software has nothing to do with the program we're
discussing.

First of all, setting aside whatever foundation the Casper 4.0 uses to carry
out its basic disk-cloning function, all I can tell you (and others) is as
I've previously stated - the program works just fine. It's become our
disk-cloning program of choice. In the final analysis isn't that what's of
interest to us?

I assume you've seen my detailed posting re this program. You've probably
noticed that in addition to employing the program from the Windows GUI,
Casper also has available a "Startup Disk", in effect a bootable CD with the
Casper program so that you can use that media to carry out the disk-cloning
operation in lieu of the GUI.

It is true that compared with other disk-cloning/disk imaging programs, the
Casper 4.0 program is more expensive - just under $60. All I can tell you is
that based on our experience with the program (and the feedback we've
received from our users to whom we've recommended this program), it's worth
every penny. You might want to re:read my previous post on this program.
Anna
 
B

Bill Blanton

Lil' Dave said:
Although it may work, sounds suspiciously like a linux based program designed primarily for Mac systems. I still get email from
Novastor mailsite in that regards. Casper 5.0 is now available I see. Prefer something Window PE based if on bootable media.

Price is a bit high considering all I want is clone software, nothing else.
Dave

Terabyte's CopyWipe works well. I've only used the DOS version, but
they also offer a PEBuilder plugin. It doesn't have a pretty GUI or do
any handholding, which is a plus or minus depending on how you look
at it. Some of it's options include; Use BIOS/Direct, Raw sector copy/
partition copy, It also supports USB and FireWire.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/copywipe.php#download
 
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J

John Mueller

I wondered if you have had any experience with NovaStor 8.3 version NovaBackup product for imaging or cloning?
I already have a trial version of this but am afraid to use it to try to restore my C: Win XP SP 2 acer machine. Also has an Athlon 64 processor and SATA C: Drive,if that makes a difference.
THANKS
John

EggHeadCafe - .NET Developer Portal of Choice
http://www.eggheadcafe.com
 
D

DL

Is this as a result of a problem, or simply replaceing the hd?

I havent used NovaStor but have used Acronis without problems
 
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M

melvin cotterill

I have used a free piece of software available from Seagate. I happens to
include some Acronis software. It is extremely well written for beginners
like me. Do a Google search on the internet for " Seagate DiscWizard" and
download it from Seagate's site. I do not know if the software will work for
manufacturers of hard drives other than Seagate. I have a mixture of Seagate
IDE and IBM SCSI hard drives and it worked fine for me.
Good luck with it.
 

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