K
Kinell
....and there's still standby power on the system if it's an ATX or
later motherboard system.
....and there's still standby power on the system if it's an ATX or
later motherboard system.
K
Kadaitcha Man
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH! You ****ing 'tard.
K
Kinell
Belay my previous, missed that bit.
A
Al Dykes
It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is) which could
potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.
--
There is live voltage on the mobo whenever a modern PC is plugged into
the wall. A dropped tool could short something out.
J
Joe Morris
Mike Scott said:
It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is
potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.
True, but from the standpoint of why one is using a grounding strap,
what you need to protect the ESD-sensitive devices is a way to assure
that everything being used is at the *same* potential. (This is the
reason that workers maintaining live high-voltage power lines will connect
the wire to their bucket: assuring that no potential difference
exists between them and the equipment they're working with.)
Note that merely touching a charge sink (such as the case) doesn't
guarantee anything about potential differences once you break that
connection. That's an advantage of using an antistatic strap: you
have both hands free while assuring that your body is at the same
potential as the sink.
And your comment "If it's plugged in (while switched off at
the mains)" has a pair of unstated assumptions:
1) The grounding ("earth") conductor is in fact working as
it should, and
2) No other device on that branch circuit is leaking energy
into the supposedly dead current-carrying conductors.
Far too many occupancies (especially older ones) weren't designed
with grounding conductors, and too many that have been retrofitted
have grounding systems that are not properly implemented. A common
example is the use of a cold water pipe as the grounding conductor.
With the rise in popularity of PVC pipes, consider the probability
that at some point in the future a plumber will replace a part of the
metallic water pipes with PVC...leaving the allegedly grounding
conductors floating, probably well above actual ground potential.
And even if one of the current-carrying conductors is grounded (note
the difference between groundING and groundED conductors) an
all-too-common problem is failure of the bonding between the grounded
conductor and the grounding point at the service panel. (Note: I'm
not very familiar with UK wiring standards or terminology.) Thus if
you have leakage from some other energy source (example: a computer and
printer fed from different mains but connected by a cable) you could have
some interesting consequences even if the mains feeding the other
device are disconnected.
Joe Morris
K
kony
It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is
potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.
The system should either be turned off via a power switch
(main cutoff) on the back of the power supply which leaves
the system grounded, or unplugged from AC entirely and then
the earth-grounded user should touch a ground point on the
system first, to ensure that system ground is at similar
potential as user who is earth grounded.
C
Chris van Bladel
Kinell said:
Press the powerbutton once more when the unit is unplugged. This way the
system will try to powerup and "drain" or "use up" the voltage left in
the PSU.
And as for toughing the case with your wrist, thats the way
J
John Doe
A troll giving potentially dangerous advice about a subject he
apparently knows nothing about.
apparently knows nothing about.
E
Ed Cregger
Fisher said:
We're just talking here, amongst friends, hopefully. I'm not in a pissing
contest with anyone, including you.
I agree that a perfect Earth ground, which normally doesn't exist in the
real world, would be the theoretically perfect way to do things. But in
reality, it isn't really necessary, nor is it easy to obtain.
As far as looking it up goes, I've been an ET for over forty years. I've
probably looked it up a few times already.
Ed Cregger
J
John Doe
....
Hooking yourself up to Earth ground is probably a good way to get
electrocuted.
Hooking yourself up to Earth ground is probably a good way to get
electrocuted.
J
John Doe
Fisher said:
Go give the same advice in a basic electronics discussion group.
sci.electronics.basics
Please provide some citations.
Where is ground in a battery powered device?
It most certainly is.
I have invented, designed, and built electronic devices. Most of
what I know has been learned through research. I can spot a wild
goose chase from a mile away. I am not going on your wild goose
chase.
You need to provide links to your sources.
You need to get a clue about the subject.
D
Dmitri
Franklin wrote:
A piece of copper wire (stripped of insulation, of course) wrapped around
your wrist would actually be much more effective than the anti-static
strap because the only connection point in the strap is the small button
in the very middle of the strap. The rest of the strap is, obviously
dielectric. HOWEVER, as many pointed out in this thread, there is a 1MOhm
resistor in series with the croc clip so you don't get electrocuted if you
touch a wrong part.
If you disconnect the mains power from the case you're working on (which
you should always do, anyways) you cannot ground yourself, but you can
electrically bond yourself to the case with the strap (or wire), which
prevents ESD when you're inserting a component, but it DOES NOT prevens
ESD when you pick a component up from the desk (which is assumed NOT to be
electrically bonded to the case). So, never open ESD-protective bags
BEFORE you bond yourself to the case you're working on.
Good luck and please don't fry yourself!
--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------
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##-----------------------------------------------##
A piece of copper wire (stripped of insulation, of course) wrapped around
your wrist would actually be much more effective than the anti-static
strap because the only connection point in the strap is the small button
in the very middle of the strap. The rest of the strap is, obviously
dielectric. HOWEVER, as many pointed out in this thread, there is a 1MOhm
resistor in series with the croc clip so you don't get electrocuted if you
touch a wrong part.
If you disconnect the mains power from the case you're working on (which
you should always do, anyways) you cannot ground yourself, but you can
electrically bond yourself to the case with the strap (or wire), which
prevents ESD when you're inserting a component, but it DOES NOT prevens
ESD when you pick a component up from the desk (which is assumed NOT to be
electrically bonded to the case). So, never open ESD-protective bags
BEFORE you bond yourself to the case you're working on.
Good luck and please don't fry yourself!
--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------
##-----------------------------------------------#
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##-----------------------------------------------##
G
Guest
Franklin said:
As everybody else has told you, no.
The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
A
Al Dykes
Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.
I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
looking over my shoulder.
Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.
(And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
strapped to a body part is an idiot. )
T
ToolPackinMama
Al said:
::applause:: True, plus it imparts a pleasing aroma.
J
JAD
Al Dykes said:
Yeah, just the thought of that wire wrapped around my wrist and no way for
my buds to get it off quickly, while I flop round the floor like a fish out
of water, sorta scarey.
The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model computers
out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my granddaughter
hand in the airport.
J
JAD
A side note,,,,,,,,,
I stopped using anti static straps when I bought a humidifier into the work
room. A/C units DRY the air and create the environment for static build up.
I stopped using anti static straps when I bought a humidifier into the work
room. A/C units DRY the air and create the environment for static build up.
JAD said:
S
spodosaurus
ToolPackinMama said:::applause:: True, plus it imparts a pleasing aroma.
You obviously do not have a very sensitive nose! Those smells are horrid.
--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo
I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
D
Dmitri
JAD said:
Another important room improvement in terms of dealing with ESD would be
to get rid of synthetic carpeting on the floor.
--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------
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M
Michael Thomas
When installing add on cards, motherboards, whatever - my main
objective is to eliminate the difference in potential between the
case, me, and the new component I'm installing. My technique is to
start by wearing 100% cotton clothing, because it won't build up a
static charge. I connect power to the supply then disconnect it.
That will ground the case and as long as it doesn't move around will
stay at ground potential. I then take the card with it in it's
conductive metallic plastic bag (faraday cage) and place it onto the
case and open the bag. While touching the case with my arms, wrists,
etc. I remove the card and insert it into it's slot. With this
technique, I keep myself, the case, and the card at as close to the
same potential as possible.
MT
objective is to eliminate the difference in potential between the
case, me, and the new component I'm installing. My technique is to
start by wearing 100% cotton clothing, because it won't build up a
static charge. I connect power to the supply then disconnect it.
That will ground the case and as long as it doesn't move around will
stay at ground potential. I then take the card with it in it's
conductive metallic plastic bag (faraday cage) and place it onto the
case and open the bag. While touching the case with my arms, wrists,
etc. I remove the card and insert it into it's slot. With this
technique, I keep myself, the case, and the card at as close to the
same potential as possible.
MT