bigest issue with windoze ?

[lisztfr]

Hi all,

i wanted to ask that question i never solved well, that is, how
to properly shutdown a remote machine, with a good chance to
get the machine back next day ?

i wrote scripts to shutdonw apps 1 by 1, also flushing disks caches,
also using reborun and shutrun (?) for example, imho the most
critical moment with windows is while shutting down.. i ever lost
the machine because of bad shutdown, soon or late.

i'm about to build an electronic device with a switch to check at
certain time if the machine is still "on", (2am for ex) and then will
perform a reset on the mobo (i guess shorting the 2 pins for the
"reset" would do it.

maybe it's a win me problem only ...?

last time i did only winmx, and then wanted to reboot (befor closing
i thought reboot would be safer...) maybe i open a DOS windows too,
but with disabling the "ask" thing.. windows can't shutdown properply,
in my experience ! any idea ?


laurenth

 

[lisztfr]

http://aumha.org/win4/a/shtdwnme.php

nice to see how many things can go bad !

lh

 

[Al Klein]

i wanted to ask that question i never solved well, that is, how
to properly shutdown a remote machine, with a good chance to
get the machine back next day ?

There are WinAPIs to shut down in various ways.

i'm about to build an electronic device with a switch to check at
certain time if the machine is still "on", (2am for ex) and then will
perform a reset on the mobo (i guess shorting the 2 pins for the
"reset" would do it.

It would "do" it, but you won't like what it does. Use an API to tell
Windows to restart. If you want to restart in case of a hardware
failure, build a watchdog into the circuitry, and have the watchdog do
a hardware reset. (By that time, Windows is already gone, so you have
nothing to lose.)

last time i did only winmx, and then wanted to reboot (befor closing
i thought reboot would be safer...) maybe i open a DOS windows too,
but with disabling the "ask" thing.. windows can't shutdown properply,
in my experience ! any idea ?

That's how Windows works - it asks all running programs whether it's
ok to shut them down. If the program says no and you shut it down
anyway you could corrupt data files, or even the hard drive.

 

[lisztfr]

Ok to be more precise, the computer shutdown, but doesn't power off,
as every one knows, you see the screen with "you can now shutdown
etc " that happens most offen.
thanks for the help,

Lh

 

[B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson]

Ok to be more precise, the computer shutdown, but doesn't power off,
as every one knows, you see the screen with "you can now shutdown
etc " that happens most offen.
thanks for the help,

Still too few information to help you. Nothing about OS, hardware
involved, running processes, programs/functions used to remotely
(as you wrote within your initial post) power down,...

Above all, it hasn't anything to do with freeware. (As long as your
problems don't come from applying a free tool.) And because we know
nothing about the possible cause of your problems it is difficult
to suggest a shutdown manager, or such.

If you're using WinXP you can have a look at this page:

http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.htm

You even can get some ideas of possible sources of failure for
other versions of Windows by reading that text.

BeAr

 

[lisztfr]

i'm using the so called '"toy OS" windows millenium and have no
intention to downgrade to XP haha.

There should be a Distrowatch like for linux's to see how many peoples
use what nowadays... the main purpose or the threat was to ask for
a real software solution for shutting down the most safe way, but ok
the hardware part of the discussion should be postet elsewhere.

Now i have enable DMA again (forgot to enable it) and the nvidia
drivers
are from the 5 serie, because i had problems with the 6 as other
peoples too.

but anyway i will go for a hardware "watchdog" since i definitively NO
TRUT in the shutdown process, even with the patch for millenium i
installed before.

lh

 

[B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson]

i'm using the so called '"toy OS" windows millenium and have no
intention to downgrade to XP haha.

Now I better understand your initial post. Because you wrote ME in
lower case letters I thought you refer to *your* Windows computer.
My fault, sorry.

And having reconstructed the thread from your first post of the
7th of January I missed your subthread posting pointing to the
Aumha site I mentioned. Sorry, again. ;-)

Some thoughts to your problem: After checking all kinds of driver
incompatibilities you seem to have got your system into a state
where it would cleanly shutdown if no program is running. Or,
if no program which have been running left traces (*.dll and
such) open inside the memory.

If forced remote shutdown via utils like the PSShutdown from
SysInternals:

www.sysinternals.com/utilities/psshutdown.html

don't work as expected, I'd suggest to set up a VNC server on
your target computer. So you can control the state of that
computer with utilities placed there (like process viewers
and such). Above all, you don't need to *force* applications
to close but can shut them down, gracefully. That doesn't
work if the whole system hangs, though...

Be sure to use appropriate security measures (like SSH and
maybe certificates) for login and data transfer.

There are several free implementations for VNC and SSH (even
combined, sometimes) available. As I haven't used that kind
of programs for a couple of years I can't say which one is
regarded the most secure (and handy), at the moment.

If it is an option to you, just ask here (maybe others are
more up-to-date on this than I) or do a search on TightVNC,
RealVNC, UltraVNC, SSHVnc, OpenSSH, RC4, ...

but anyway i will go for a hardware "watchdog" since i definitively NO
TRUT in the shutdown process, even with the patch for millenium i
installed before.

Could be a 'last ressort'.

Btw.: I'd go for Win98SE when using a Win4x system. WinME always
was buggy and overloaded with colored crap. - A "toy OS" as you
rightfully put it. ;-)

BeAr

 

[Imposter]

Btw.: I'd go for Win98SE when using a Win4x system. WinME always
was buggy and overloaded with colored crap. - A "toy OS" as you
rightfully put it. ;-)

I used both 98SE and ME. After getting rid of the toy colored crap etc
('beating it into submission' as John Corliss put it) I found it a very
stable, hassle free OS and preferred it to 98SE. It (ME) was already
installed on a new PC when I bought it, but my initial fears were
unfounded.
Now installed XP, and whilst it's stable, I've still got a lot of "toy
colored crap" to get rid of. Wish M$ would bring out a 'Toy Colored Crap
Free' edition of all their operating systems in addition to Professional
and Home editions. Maybe as I replace some of my peripheral hardware I'll
go over to Linux. Tried it for a few months, but no drivers for Printer or
Scanner amongst other things meant it was a dead duck in the water at this
time.

 

[lisztfr]

windows ME thanks. hope this message rise in the ng

 

[B. R. 'BeAr' Ederson]

I used both 98SE and ME. After getting rid of the toy colored crap etc
('beating it into submission' as John Corliss put it) I found it a very
stable, hassle free OS and preferred it to 98SE. It (ME) was already
installed on a new PC when I bought it, but my initial fears were
unfounded.

Basically, after uninstalling the crap you've got a Win98SE system
with barely an enhancement 'under the hood'. WinME has some newer
drivers, too. But one mostly gets the important ones from the sites
of the hardware manufacturers, anyway...

Now installed XP, and whilst it's stable, I've still got a lot of "toy
colored crap" to get rid of. Wish M$ would bring out a 'Toy Colored Crap
Free' edition of all their operating systems in addition to Professional
and Home editions.

I'd, too, go for these. ;-)

To turn back to the topic of freeware: One can replace the colorful
shells by free replacements. There have been a couple of nice ones
for Win9x. (Like GeoShell, LiteStep, Raptor.) A page with several
links is here:

www.shellfront.org

As for WinXP - most people making shell enhancements seem to compete
MS in producing even *more* color crap. :-( So I'll stick with my
gray-optimized Win2kPro.

BeAr

 

[lisztfr]

windows ME thanks. hope this message rise in the ng

 

[lisztfr]

i get really in the impression not being published here...
using winME. wtf ?

Lh

 

[lisztfr]

windows ME thanks. hope this message rise in the ng

 

[SeaMaiden]

windows ME thanks. hope this message rise in the ng

Product activation

That's my biggest issue with windoze.

Activation is required again after you take out the hard drives (for cloning
and backup purposes in case of corruption or malware infection) and put them
back in. After you do this so many times (I think the limit is 4 changes),
you have to call MS Support.

You also get prompted to reactivate if you upgrade and replace your CD/DVD
drives, add more RAM or a different type of RAM, better CPU, better graphics
card, better network card, better sound card, etc. Changes on USB devices
are not as likely to trigger activation prompts. If you replace your
motherboard and chipset, Windows XP is not likely to boot at all due to HAL
restrictions, and if it does, it thinks you're using a different computer
and prompts you to reactivate. If you're using an OEM version of Windows,
you're SOL. There are similar activation problems with Office.

 

[Daniel Mandic]

Product activation

That's my biggest issue with windoze.

Hello!


Yes, that´s really weird. And I have to answer comical questions. I get
the feeling if I had stolen XP :-(

I have a good idea for MS:
Why not sending, let´s say every half a year or every year, a USB
Stick. There is anything written for the product activation and you
don´t need to call MS... just put in the USB-Stick. The USB Stick can
be recharged and used for any MS Product you have bought (also older
products) etc.




Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic

 

[Terry Russell]

Product activation

That's my biggest issue with windoze.

Activation is required again after you take out the hard drives (for
cloning and backup purposes in case of corruption or malware infection)
and put them back in. After you do this so many times (I think the limit
is 4 changes), you have to call MS Support.

You also get prompted to reactivate if you upgrade and replace your CD/DVD
drives, add more RAM or a different type of RAM, better CPU, better
graphics card, better network card, better sound card, etc. Changes on USB
devices are not as likely to trigger activation prompts. If you replace
your motherboard and chipset, Windows XP is not likely to boot at all due
to HAL restrictions, and if it does, it thinks you're using a different
computer and prompts you to reactivate. If you're using an OEM version of
Windows, you're SOL. There are similar activation problems with Office.

you shouldn't have to do it that often or at all if you are just changing
one or two things
often. Just don't activate until you have installed everything and got it
working.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php

On one XP install after a few day with 25 days left before activation I
experimented.
Set the clock back 4 days, still 25 days left, set it forward to correct
time, lo! 21 days
left. So just in case you wondered, it doesn't work

If the questions bother you take a copy of the agreement and make them
follow it, give
no information, admit nothing and complain up the chain if they get uppity
and insist.
Since you paid for it they are your servants, if it was freeware you adopt a
more
cooperative egalitarian model .

Product activation was the one thing that kept me from XP, still annoying
but not
that bad, at least not for the 5 XPpro machines I have tried in the last
month (crosses fingers ),
but then they were all under the same moon. Well, that and the price came
down
to something almost reasonable.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Hello!


Yes, that´s really weird. And I have to answer comical questions. I get
the feeling if I had stolen XP :-(

I have a good idea for MS:
Why not sending, let´s say every half a year or every year, a USB
Stick. There is anything written for the product activation and you
don´t need to call MS... just put in the USB-Stick. The USB Stick can
be recharged and used for any MS Product you have bought (also older
products) etc.

Daniel Mandic

My XP is legal.

I'm not sure I understand how your USB stick idea would work.

 

[SeaMaiden]

you shouldn't have to do it that often or at all if you are just changing
one or two things
often. Just don't activate until you have installed everything and got it
working.

http://aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php

On one XP install after a few day with 25 days left before activation I
experimented.
Set the clock back 4 days, still 25 days left, set it forward to correct
time, lo! 21 days
left. So just in case you wondered, it doesn't work

If the questions bother you take a copy of the agreement and make them
follow it, give
no information, admit nothing and complain up the chain if they get uppity
and insist.
Since you paid for it they are your servants, if it was freeware you adopt
a more
cooperative egalitarian model .

Product activation was the one thing that kept me from XP, still annoying
but not
that bad, at least not for the 5 XPpro machines I have tried in the last
month (crosses fingers ),
but then they were all under the same moon. Well, that and the price came
down
to something almost reasonable.

(My copy of Windows XP is legal.) Windows and installed programs are on one
hard drive. All my saved data is on the other. It is safer that way. I clone
my system hard drive instead of using System Restore. (Sometimes System
Restore makes things worse. If it accidentally gets turned on for my data
drive, then I lose data!)

If a driver, update, or program messes Windows up, then I restore my system
hard drive from the clone backup. (I am not cloning the drive for use on
more than one machine. I have only one computer that meets the requirements
for XP.)

Windows tends to get messed up a lot. Microsoft is probably getting tired of
me calling every few months when I get prompted to reactivate. When cloning
(or restoring) the system drive, it is necessary to remove the data drive,
put the system backup drive in, do the clone, remove the backup drive, and
put the data drive back in. I don't know how many "changes" XP counts during
one of these cloning sessions, but after 4 "changes" you are prompted to
reactivate. I wonder if my backup drive was USB instead of IDE I would not
be prompted as often, but Ghost 2003 cannot "see" certain USB drives with
the floppy disk version at the DOS/command level before Windows starts. I
would not trust using Ghost at the Windows level, and that's why it's not
actually installed in Windows.

(Yes, I have a legal license for Ghost. It came as part of SystemWorks 2004
Pro, but I'm not installing that ever again! I only hold onto it for legal
use of Ghost 2003. I no longer trust or respect Symantec products and will
never install any. Too invasive, too buggy, and no free technical support.
They used to be a good company, but now they suck. Ghost 2003 and the old
DOS utilities are they only things I still use. Other companies have better
products and better support, and many of them are freeware.)