Battery failure

[attilathehun1]

Would your computer stop working all of a sudden one day if the motherboard
battery, the 2032 organize battery I think, stops working? The computer
worked when I changed the monitor but then it stopped working shortly after
that. Then it didn't matter what monitor I tried, it just wouldn't fire up. I
checked everything almost, reseated the RAM, checked the power supply, tried
another video card, checked the hard drive, used different parallel straps. I
mean I went through all I could think of, except the motherboard battery. By
accident I discovered that it wasn't working. Do you think that could be the
problem? Is that a common problem of a PC going on the blink? Would it start
up after a rest and then finally shut down? It seems like the battery on my
flashlights get better once they aren't on, but once you turn the flashlight
back on, the flashlight dims out.
I'm thinking about putting the whole PC back together now and trying out a
battery that I know works. Ok, this is the truth. I took out the battery and
changed it with another one and I think the one I changed it with was bad.
I'm not sure, but I know I did change the battery. I was trying out my
battery tester and found out the right option on the tester to test 3 and 1
1/2 volt batteries. So, I'm not sure if the original battery I took out was
good or bad. That's why I'm asking if it's a common problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[JS]

Go buy a new battery and replace what's in your computer with the new one!

You will most likely need to configure the BIOS settings when you boot after
replacing the battery from the defaults to what works best for your PC.

JS

 

[jsoreno]

Yes go ahead buy a new battery. Just make sure you know how what to d
with the BIOS. Good luc

 

[Twayne]

Would your computer stop working all of a sudden one day if the

motherboard battery, the 2032 organize battery I think, stops
working?

Yes, that's quite possible. It would depend on a few things, but it's
definitely possible the CMOS settings were lost.
Boot to the System Settings/CMOS Settings/BIOS settings, whatever it's
called on your machine, and write down each setting in case you have to
put them back.
Then, there will be a "load default" choice somewhere; click that
then save and exit and continue the boot.

The computer worked when I changed the monitor but then it

stopped working shortly after that.

But that doesn't sound like a monitor problem.

Then it didn't matter what

monitor I tried, it just wouldn't fire up.

Did you try it from Safe Mode? That uses a standard driver that should
work with any monitor, just maybe not a very good looking screen, but it
will work if there is nothing wrong elsewhere.

I checked everything

almost, reseated the RAM, checked the power supply, tried another
video card, checked the hard drive, used different parallel straps.

Parallel straps? What the heck do you mean?

I

mean I went through all I could think of, except the motherboard
battery. By accident I discovered that it wasn't working.

What äccident" was that? See above: or try starting in Safe Mode.

Do you

think that could be the problem?

Possible, not likely, IMO.

Is that a common problem of a PC

going on the blink?

Not the way you describe it, but it could be possible. Just not likely
IMO. Can't hurt to try a known good battery though.

Would it start up after a rest and then finally

shut down?

Who knows? Try it and see.

It seems like the battery on my flashlights get better

once they aren't on, but once you turn the flashlight back on, the
flashlight dims out.

Irrelevant. Different battery, technology, materials, characteristics
and use. No comparison. This kind of battery reaches a cutoff point
and quits; period.
The most obvious symptom of a bad battery is that the computer won't
keep the system date correctly while the computer is turned off. If it
loses time when the computer is turned off, the battery is 99% likely
dead.

I'm thinking about putting the whole PC back together now and trying
out a battery that I know works.

Gopher it.

Ok, this is the truth. I took out

the battery and changed it with another one and I think the one I
changed it with was bad. I'm not sure, but I know I did change the
battery. I was trying out my battery tester and found out the right
option on the tester to test 3 and 1 1/2 volt batteries. So, I'm not
sure if the original battery I took out was good or bad. That's why
I'm asking if it's a common problem.

Measuring the battery with a meter isn't indicative of the battery's
health under load. Even a dead battery can show a healthy output
voltage out of its circuit. Measuring it is useless; just change it out
with a known good battery.

I could be misreading you, but with a lot of the things you've done, if
you didn't use good static protection while you worked on the computer,
you could have damaged some of the cktry in the computer. Thinking you
did it "safely" because you never drew a static arc from your fingers to
anything is NOT right! Static voltages that can damage today's
electronic ckts can be so low that they would not create visible arcs in
any way. Unless you observed good static procedures, you could, not
did, have damaged other cktry in the computer.

Get to Safe Mode for ALL of your testing until you have a working
system. THEN try to get it to run in standard mode.

HTH

Twayne

 

[attilathehun1]

Oh darn it, I knew I should've wrote down the settings on the BIOS. Isn't
there a default settings on the BIOS that I can hit? So the PC will go back
into the factory mode settings from the manufacturer. I've gone into BIOS
alot of times but I can't remember what the settings were for this PC. This
PC is a DIY that I built about 3 years ago. I bought the CPU and mobo from
CompUSA. It's a AMD processor chip Socket A EV6 bus 462 Pin ZIF and the
motherboard is a M7VIG 400 that supports AMD processors.
Any response will be gladly appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun

 

[attilathehun1]

Well, I tried to fire it up, without putting the heatsink and fan back onto
the CPU, and nothing happened. I smelt something like burning wires for a
second. Is that because I didn't have anything on the CPU yet? I mean why
install the heatsink and fan assembly just to have to take it apart again.
This PC has been a real nightmare. All I can figure it's the motherboard or
CPU chip that's finally given out.
Ok, if something I've done wrong here shoots out at you. please don't feel
to keep it back from telling what you think is wrong with the procedure.
Thanks,
attilathehun1

 

[gls858]

Well, I tried to fire it up, without putting the heatsink and fan back onto
the CPU, and nothing happened. I smelt something like burning wires for a
second. Is that because I didn't have anything on the CPU yet? I mean why
install the heatsink and fan assembly just to have to take it apart again.
This PC has been a real nightmare. All I can figure it's the motherboard or
CPU chip that's finally given out.
Ok, if something I've done wrong here shoots out at you. please don't feel
to keep it back from telling what you think is wrong with the procedure.
Thanks,
attilathehun1

Yes. The thing you did wrong was not putting the heat sink and fan back
on. Most likley you fried the processor. It doesn't take long.

gls858

 

[Nepatsfan]

Would your computer stop working all of a sudden one day if the motherboard
battery, the 2032 organize battery I think, stops working? The computer
worked when I changed the monitor but then it stopped working shortly after
that. Then it didn't matter what monitor I tried, it just wouldn't fire up. I
checked everything almost, reseated the RAM, checked the power supply, tried
another video card, checked the hard drive, used different parallel straps. I
mean I went through all I could think of, except the motherboard battery. By
accident I discovered that it wasn't working. Do you think that could be the
problem? Is that a common problem of a PC going on the blink? Would it start
up after a rest and then finally shut down? It seems like the battery on my
flashlights get better once they aren't on, but once you turn the flashlight
back on, the flashlight dims out.
I'm thinking about putting the whole PC back together now and trying out a
battery that I know works. Ok, this is the truth. I took out the battery and
changed it with another one and I think the one I changed it with was bad.
I'm not sure, but I know I did change the battery. I was trying out my
battery tester and found out the right option on the tester to test 3 and 1
1/2 volt batteries. So, I'm not sure if the original battery I took out was
good or bad. That's why I'm asking if it's a common problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, attilathehun1

I don't see any mention of testing your power supply. Either swap it out with a
known good unit or get a multi-meter and start testing voltages.

Good luck

Nepatsfan

 

[Twayne]

Oh darn it, I knew I should've wrote down the settings on the BIOS.

Isn't there a default settings on the BIOS that I can hit? So the PC
will go back into the factory mode settings from the manufacturer.

There usually is, yes. But being a diy project, it's hard to say
whether the defaults will be enough; another reason to work in Safe Mode
too, at least initially. Another reason to be paring down to essentials
(break it into smallest pieces you can) and work your way upwards.
ALWAYS note any non-standard BIOS settings, especially if the defaults
will screw things up.
The mobo usually has a jumper or short-pads to reset the BIOS stuff
too. Your specs will have that.
Don't recall for sure, but I seem to recall you mentioning somewhere
that the BIOS you had wasn't known to be the right one? That you should
be able to work out from your specs, so at least it's manageable. very
important to know; I wouldn't skip any steps if i could help it.

Afraid I can't help beyond that. Any chance you have your old build
notes stashed away someplace?


Regards,

 

[Twayne]

Yes. The thing you did wrong was not putting the heat sink and fan
back on. Most likley you fried the processor. It doesn't take long.

gls858

That may well be an accurate statement. If the external surfaces got
too hot to touch, there is an oustanding chance that the internal
temperature went beyond safe operating specs. I don't know for sure,
but I'd imagine it could happen in three to five minutes of run time,
especially if the cpu were running hard at or near 100%.

 

[Twayne]

From his other post on repeatedly prodding on every detail on how to
install a Zalman heatsink and fan (HSF), and from his other post here
where he admits to not attaching the HSF (and from his other post of
not wanting to "waste" any thermal paste although he likely has a
tube that allows 5, or more, applications), my guess is that he
didn't bother to attach the HSF (with thermal compound) and the BIOS
is aborting the POST because the CPU overheats beyound its configured
default temperature threshold or he didn't connect the fan to the CPU
header on the mobo so the BIOS sees no RPM so it aborts the POST.

Considering he powered up without the HSF (with thermal paste) and
that he smelt it burn afterwards, he probably just burnt his bridge
and can't go back until he replaces the damaged parts (CPU and
perhaps the mobo).

I'll second that; it could easily have beome a lost cause by now.
Shortcuts are almost never an advantage with this sort of thing. Hope
it wasn't a big investment.

 

[Twayne]

Oh darn it, I knew I should've wrote down the settings on the BIOS.

Isn't there a default settings on the BIOS that I can hit? So the PC
will go back into the factory mode settings from the manufacturer.
I've gone into BIOS alot of times but I can't remember what the
settings were for this PC. This PC is a DIY that I built about 3
years ago. I bought the CPU and mobo from CompUSA. It's a AMD
processor chip Socket A EV6 bus 462 Pin ZIF and the motherboard is a
M7VIG 400 that supports AMD processors. Any response will be gladly
appreciated. Thanks,
attilathehun

Just thinking: depending on what your investment is and whether you care
enough, it's probably time to let some trained professionals give you an
esimate on a repair job. Within a few minutes they'll be able to tell
you whether it's worth pursuing further or not. By pursuing, I mean
them, now you; they have all the right equipment and environment to do
that kind of work. IMO you're at way too much of a disadvantage to go
any further and probably should have stopped about the point where you
decided to change the battery.

With so many unknowns IMO it's nearly impossible and certainly unlikely
anyone here can help you by now.

regards,

 

[w_tom]

Well, I tried to fire it up, without putting the heatsink and fan back onto
the CPU, and nothing happened. I smelt something like burning wires for a
second. Is that because I didn't have anything on the CPU yet? I mean why
install the heatsink and fan assembly just to have to take it apart again.
This PC has been a real nightmare. All I can figure it's the motherboard or
CPU chip that's finally given out.

Powering up an AMD processor (not true of an Intel) without a
heatsink could be destructive. How hot was the CPU after a burning
smell?

Currently, suspects include most everything in that list of 'checked
everything' including power supply, RAM, video card, etc.
Previously, you said a multimeter is available. Without removing the
battery, measure that battery voltage. If battery is a CR2032 type,
then voltages above 2.8 volts are sufficient. About 2.8 volts
suggests replacing the battery in some future month. Well below 2.8
volts says the battery needs replacement now.

Battery may need replacement, but not correct reason for failure.
For example, power supply could have always been defective (even when
computer boots and runs fine). Again, only useful answer comes from
that multimeter. When powered on, multimeter measures voltage on any
one of purple, red, orange, and yellow wires. Again, measurements made
without removing or disconnecting anything. Then report those numbers
here to gain a useful conclusion.

That confirms battery and power supply. Once verified as
'definitively good', then move on to other suspects.

 

[attilathehun1]

It didn't even fire up. The fan didn't start spinning, not the heatsink fan,
the tower fan. Nothing came on the monitor, the LED stayed yellow, and no it
didn't even come on. I could see if I had it running for a minute or so and
then smelled something burning. I tried to fire it up and smelled something
like wires. Ok, maybe I did fry the CPU chip, if the CPU chip will fry in 10
seconds without the monitor going green and without the case fan starting up.
Ok, if that is possible, it doesn't matter anyways, because I think it's the
CPU chip anyways, or the motherboard. I've gone through everything else.
Now that you've told me about putting the heatsink on and not even trying
to start it up without it, I'm screwed at the moment. This new motherboard I
bought from newegg. com for $50 bucks, because of the free 512 ramstick that
was included, doesn't have a heatsink and fan with it. I have to buy one.
Unless I take off the plastic that is wrapped around the CPU, and then maybe
one of these heatsink fan assemblys I have sitting here will work. The
motherboard got bad reviews from people on neweggs website. It's an
Elitegroup model GF6100-M754 e-machine mobo/CPU combo. The only like I said
is it doesn't have a heatsink and fan assembly included.
What's more likely to give out, the CPU chip or the motherboard? I'm
thinking the motherboard.
Any more help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[attilathehun1]

Ok, the readings on the 3 volt 2032 organizer battery, well motherboard
battery, I just am used to calling them organizer batteries, is 2.869. Now,
as far as reading the power supply with is turned on. Right now, unless I go
throught the procedure to start a power supply by sticking a paperclip
shorting it out, I'm out of luck. I've told you it doesn't fire up. I know, I
can start up the power supply, another hassle. I do have 3 new power supplies
sitting here, still wrapped in the plastic it came from the manufacturer. I
did try this power supply on another PC. In fact I tried another power
supply, that I knew worked, on the PC already and it didn't fire up.
And again, as far as burning up the CPU chip when I smelled something
burning, if the CPU can burn up in 20 seconds then ok, it' burned up. The
case fan didn't start spinning, the hard drive didn't start spinning, the
monitor LED stayed yellow. I don't know.
This has just been a nightmare and waste of time.
And yes I did install the Zalman CNPS9700 LED cooler about 3 times on and
off. So, the only thing I have to do now with that is install the cooler fan
controller, the black plastic piece. Right now, the cooler is sitting back in
it's original plastic package and I'm fooling with this DIY 3 year old PC. I
should be building or overhauling my Dell 8300. I have everything new except
the hard drive and optical drive. In fact I'm going to use a new dvd drive or
no I'll use the same setup I have now. I have the master optical as a burner
and the slave used for my gaming. The master is one of the new type of feeds
where you just insert the CD disk and then it automatically inserts. No
pushing the button and waiting for the tray to come out. There is no tray on
this optical drive.
Ok, lets give it one more shot. I'm thinking about installing the lemon I
got from newegg. The e-machine mobo/CPU combo. I'm going to have to do some
tinkering with the plastic plate that surrounds the CPU. I don't have
anything, except maybe the Zalman, that will fit on it as it is now.
Any more help will be appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[attilathehun1]

Ok finally, I fired it up and presto! It works now and the monitor came up
green on the LED light. I turned it off immediately thanks to your comments,
so, no I didn't burn up the CPU chip. The device I smelled burning, don't
laugh, was the fan. I accidently plugged the fan molex connector into the
hard drive. I was just about to take off the mobo again and had just taken
the last mobo screws out and discovered it. Now, I need to install the
heatsink and fan assembly to the CPU. I have arctic silver that hasn't been
opened yet that's been sitting in my desk draw for 2 years or I have the
thermal paste that I've used once, that came with the Zalman cooler. Which
would you use? Now the area on the CPU chip is a small square about 1/4 inch
by 1/4 inch. Is that all the area I have to apply the compound? The other
motherboard I just bought has a area about 1 inch by 1 inch.
Ok, I'll wait for your response.
Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[attilathehun1]

OK, the problem now I think has to do with the CMOS. I changed the 3 volt
battery and now isn't there a jumper on the motherboard that I can do
something with to correct the problem? Or should I go into safe mode and run
it that way or should I go into BIOS and configure something?
Any help here will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, attilathehun1

 

[w_tom]

OK, the problem now I think has to do with the CMOS. I changed the 3 volt
battery and now isn't there a jumper on the motherboard that I can do
something with to correct the problem? Or should I go into safe mode and run
it that way or should I go into BIOS and configure something?
Any help here will be greatly appreciated.

To answer many questions. Which is more likely to fail?
Motherboard. CPUs are so robust. But this assumes the system has
been working. With so much human intervention, then everything is
equally likely to fail (because humans are so inventive).

That greater than 2.8 volts battery voltage (measured by a
multimeter) suggests battery should have been sufficient (not a reason
for failure) AND that battery was ready for replacement. Battery
replaced. Move on to other suspects.

Procedure to test purple, red, orange, and yellow wires with a meter
needs no paper clip. Measure each voltage before and when power on
button is pressed. Irrelevant is how the system responds. Only
relevant are numbers for each wire before and when power on button is
pressed. Post those numbers here to obtain a suspect - a definitive
answer. In your case, purple wire voltage would have always been
there, but other wires never reported any voltage - if failure was in
a 'power supply controller'.

A good power supply can fail in one system (not relevant in your
case). A defective power supply can still boot a computer (this is
relevant). Since a system has booted, measure those same four wires
as the system accesses (multitasks to) all peripherals
simultaneously. Numbers must exceed 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7. If less,
then power supply is still defective even though it boots that
computer.

These numbers can also be used to calibrate a voltage monitor
located on motherboard. Motherboard manufacturer can provide that
program to monitor power supply voltages while Windows executes. But
that motherboard voltage monitor hardware should be calibrated with
the multimeter; set thresholds accordingly.

Moving on. Thermal paste is not necessary for any properly machined
heatsink. When that thermal past is applied, CPU temperature should
only decrease by single digit degrees. If thermal paste results in
much lower temperatures, then either the heatsink is not properly
mounted, or that heatsink is manufactured defective.

Which thermal compound? Virtually no difference exists between an
overhyped and overpriced Arctic Silver verses other thermal compounds.

Apply so little thermal compound that, when heatsink is pressed on,
then compound does not spread outside CPU edge. Thermal compound
should be applied so sparingly that most of a heatsink contacts most
of the CPU directly. That is the most ideal thermal interface.
Thermal compound is only for those few areas where a heatsink fails to
contact CPU directly. No thermal compound should ever squeeze outside
the CPU / heatsink interface. Most important location for thermal
compound is at CPU's center. Almost all heat transfers from CPU to
heatsink at the center.

Generally, a BIOS reads and then sets itself accordingly. If system
boots in safe mode, then execute Windows diagnostics and other
utilities (CHKDSK, Disk Manager, system (event) viewer, Device
Manager, etc) to confirm software system integrity (not to be confused
with hardware integrity).

If BIOS does not see and boot the OS, then this is why responsible
computer manufacturers (ie Dell) provide comprehensive hardware
diagnostics. Those diagnostics are found in a diagnostic partition on
a hard drive, on a provided CD, and available from their web site.
Less responsible manufacturer means downloading individual diagnostics
from each component manufacturer. A hardware diagnostic executes on
its own - does not load or require complications from Windows.

If hardware does verify, then Windows provides an optional boot
procedure so that bootcfg.exe, fixboot.exe, and fixmbr.exe can repair
or restore Windows' programs that would normally boot Windows. If
these programs are necessary, then a BIOS message on screen reported
that the Operating System could not be located - meaning those 3
programs might fix Windows booting code on the hard drive.

 

[Twayne]

The manual will tell or show you where on the motherboard is the 2-pin
CMOS header pins across which you short (using a jumper) to clear the
CMOS table copy of the BIOS settings. While you might expect the
2-pin header to be near the battery, that isn't always true. I've
seen mobos with the battery at the lower right of the mobo (as viewed
when looking into the side panel with the case upright) and the 2-pin
header at the backside about halfway up. There may even be a
silkscreened label on the mobo that identifies the "Clear CMOS"
header.

With the computer powered down AND its power cord yanked from the
back, short the pins for a minute. Remove the jumper and reboot.
The CMOS table will repopulate with the default BIOS settings. If
you made any customization to the BIOS settings, you'll have to do
them again.

Refreshing to see such a clear, concise mind, VanG; keep up the good
work! Posters with your communications and people abilities are getting
rare and it's great to see your capabilities at work.

Twayne