backup catch-22

[Husky]

I completely forgot about the built in M$ backup program, and it's more than enough [I'm guessing] to restore my C:\\ OS next time it craps out..

It's already backed up the C:\ partition. And then it occurred to me, theonly time I'd be using this backup is when the OS goes out to lunch as it has done many times before. But.... catch-22.. The OS backup program is in the C:\ partition. Meaning it could very well crap out when the OS goes. Last time everything cascaded to where re-format, reinstall was theonly option.

And I'm trying to make this backup work so I don't have to re-install 100programs plus the OS again, and all the settings.

Can the XP backup program be copied to another drive and work from there if C: becomes trashed ?

 

[Shenan Stanley]

I completely forgot about the built in M$ backup program, and it's
more than enough [I'm guessing] to restore my C:\\ OS next time it
craps out..

It's already backed up the C:\ partition. And then it occurred to
me, the only time I'd be using this backup is when the OS goes out
to lunch as it has done many times before. But.... catch-22.. The
OS backup program is in the C:\ partition. Meaning it could very
well crap out when the OS goes. Last time everything cascaded to
where re-format, reinstall was the only option.

And I'm trying to make this backup work so I don't have to
re-install 100 programs plus the OS again, and all the settings.

Can the XP backup program be copied to another drive and work from
there if C: becomes trashed ?

Get an imaging application like Ghost or TrueImage..
Or backup to an external media - like an external hard disk drive
(USB/Firewire.)

 

[Guest]

Husky,

I use Norton Ghost 10. There are other good imaging programs too. I back up
to my hard drive, then I cut and paste the image to CD's. If I have a disc
failure, I can restore the image using the CD's.

Milt

 

[Gordon]

I completely forgot about the built in M$ backup program, and it's more
than enough [I'm guessing] to restore my C:\\ OS next time it craps out..

It's already backed up the C:\ partition. And then it occurred to me, the
only time I'd be using this backup is when the OS goes out to lunch as it
has done many times before. But.... catch-22.. The OS backup program is
in the C:\ partition. Meaning it could very well crap out when the OS
goes. Last time everything cascaded to where re-format, reinstall was the
only option.

And I'm trying to make this backup work so I don't have to re-install 100
programs plus the OS again, and all the settings.

Can the XP backup program be copied to another drive and work from there
if C: becomes trashed ?

The backup utility that comes with XP is NOT designed for (or capable of)
doing a complete disk backup. It's primarily designed to backup data ONLY
and then onto a tape drive, not any other media.

To accomplish what you ant, you need some sort of disk imaging program -
Norton Ghost and Acronis are the two that are usually mentioned in this
respect, but there is also BootIt that does the same.

HTH

 

[Husky]

To accomplish what you ant, you need some sort of disk imaging program -
Norton Ghost and Acronis are the two that are usually mentioned in this
respect, but there is also BootIt that does the same.

So much for backup...

 

[Gordon]

So much for backup...

In fact the backup utility included in XP Pro is a crippled version of a
commercially-available program... (can't remember which one at the
moment...)

 

[John John]

In fact the backup utility included in XP Pro is a crippled version of a
commercially-available program... (can't remember which one at the
moment...)

I beleive it was Seagate then Veritas now Symantec Backup Executive.
Being that Symantec acquired Veritas (about a year ago or so) you can be
sure that the thing will be a total disaster soon, if not already...

John

 

[GTS]

The backup utility that comes with XP is NOT designed for (or capable of)
doing a complete disk backup. It's primarily designed to backup data ONLY
and then onto a tape drive, not any other media.

To accomplish what you ant, you need some sort of disk imaging program -
Norton Ghost and Acronis are the two that are usually mentioned in this
respect, but there is also BootIt that does the same.

HTH

--
You're mistaken in several respects. Firstly, Windows backup program
(ntbackup) can backup and restore a full Windows installation including all
programs and settings. System State MUST be included in the backup. See
System State in ntbackup help for more information. Secondly, ntbackup is
not limited to tape. It can also backup to another internal or external
hard drive or mapped network drive.

In the OP's case where the system drive fails, it would be necessary to
reinstall Windows (minimally as possible) in order to then be able to run
ntbackup to perform the full restore. Disk Imaging software is faster and
simpler as it can generally restore an image by booting from the software's
CD.

 

[PopS]

....

The backup utility that comes with XP is NOT designed for (or
capable of)
doing a complete disk backup. It's primarily designed to backup
data ONLY
and then onto a tape drive, not any other media.

....

Bull squat: The ntbackup program is fully useful and uses shadow
copy for its backups, so that would indicate it's capable of
backing up the os, which it can indeed do.

If you get a catastrophic crash, you used the XP CD to get a
minimal install going; that way ntbackup is reinstalled, or if
it's a Home version, you can now get it installed.
Fire up ntbackup and go ahead and do the restore; it'll work
just fine. BTDT more than once.

Using a ghost, whatever, you STILL have to do the XP CD thing,
plus you have anothe rprogram to fiddle with installing. That
works too, but it's not much of a difference and it takes longer
and more chances for things to screw up.

The -trick- is to store the backed up data someplace OTHER THAN
on the same drive the OS is on! Preferably DVD, or at least
another physical hard drive that's reliable. I beleve that's
what the OP actually wanted to know about.

Ghosting is good, I don't mean it's not. But it's not the only
way, and although most backup software won't do you right with
the OS partition, ntbackup will do you fine, and is FREE! You
can backup/restore a file, folder, set of folders, a whole drive,
or the whole machine in one go if you wish.

But, ntbackup is THE easiest way to get going again at a known
point in time. Plus it's fast and easy to use.

Pop

 

[Gordon]

...
...

Bull squat: The ntbackup program is fully useful

Well considering the number of posts that I've seen that say "I backed up
data with NTBackup and now I can't restore it" I would take your comment
that it is "fully useful" with a HUGE pinch of salt. As explained in
another post in this thread, NTBackup is a CRIPPLED version of Backup
Executive. and is NOT designed for mission-critical or whole drive backups!

 

[Galen]

In Husky had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

I completely forgot about the built in M$ backup program, and it's
more than enough [I'm guessing] to restore my C:\\ OS next time it
craps out..

It's already backed up the C:\ partition. And then it occurred to me,
the only time I'd be using this backup is when the OS goes out to
lunch as it has done many times before. But.... catch-22.. The OS
backup program is in the C:\ partition. Meaning it could very well
crap out when the OS goes. Last time everything cascaded to where
re-format, reinstall was the only option.

And I'm trying to make this backup work so I don't have to re-install
100 programs plus the OS again, and all the settings.

Can the XP backup program be copied to another drive and work from
there if C: becomes trashed ?

There are even some free options:

Backup! Image/Clone:
http://kgiii.info/windows/all/advanced/image-clone.html

You'll want an additional drive for the free option but it's good - I've
tested it and it's been effective in the two tests but I've had no call to
use it since.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"At present I am, as you know, fairly busy, but I propose to devote my
declining years to the composition of a textbook which shall focus the
whole art of detection into one volume." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[Guest]

You can usually buy Norton Ghost bundled with Partition Magic at Best Buy for
about $20.00. That combo lets you create a new seperate backup partition on
your old hard drive, or on a new hard dirve. It's quick, easy, and has has
built in protectioin to keep you from screwing anything up to badly.
--
Linusverl

In Husky had this to say:

My reply is at the bottom of your sent message:

I completely forgot about the built in M$ backup program, and it's
more than enough [I'm guessing] to restore my C:\\ OS next time it
craps out..

It's already backed up the C:\ partition. And then it occurred to me,
the only time I'd be using this backup is when the OS goes out to
lunch as it has done many times before. But.... catch-22.. The OS
backup program is in the C:\ partition. Meaning it could very well
crap out when the OS goes. Last time everything cascaded to where
re-format, reinstall was the only option.

And I'm trying to make this backup work so I don't have to re-install
100 programs plus the OS again, and all the settings.

Can the XP backup program be copied to another drive and work from
there if C: becomes trashed ?

There are even some free options:

Backup! Image/Clone:
http://kgiii.info/windows/all/advanced/image-clone.html

You'll want an additional drive for the free option but it's good - I've
tested it and it's been effective in the two tests but I've had no call to
use it since.

--
Galen - MS MVP - Windows (Shell/User & IE)
http://dts-l.org/
http://kgiii.info/

"At present I am, as you know, fairly busy, but I propose to devote my
declining years to the composition of a textbook which shall focus the
whole art of detection into one volume." - Sherlock Holmes

 

[Husky]

In the OP's case where the system drive fails, it would be necessary to
reinstall Windows (minimally as possible) in order to then be able to run
ntbackup to perform the full restore. Disk Imaging software is faster and
simpler as it can generally restore an image by booting from the software's
CD.

no way to stick backup on another drive to restore the C: partition ?

 

[Husky]

Bull squat: The ntbackup program is fully useful and uses shadow
copy for its backups, so that would indicate it's capable of
backing up the os, which it can indeed do.

Why can't I just copy backup to the other drive where I'm storing the backup image that it makes ? Then if something goes sour, just run it from that drive ?

 

[Husky]

Backup! Image/Clone:
http://kgiii.info/windows/all/advanced/image-clone.html

You'll want an additional drive for the free option but it's good - I've
tested it and it's been effective in the two tests but I've had no call to
use it since.

I'll try it.

 

[Gordon]

Why can't I just copy backup to the other drive where I'm storing the
backup image that it makes ? Then if something goes sour, just run it from
that drive ?

Depends whether it has entries in the registry - if it has then no you
can't.

 

[PopS]

Well considering the number of posts that I've seen that say "I
backed up
data with NTBackup and now I can't restore it" I would take
your comment
that it is "fully useful" with a HUGE pinch of salt. As
explained in
another post in this thread, NTBackup is a CRIPPLED version of
Backup
Executive. and is NOT designed for mission-critical or whole
drive backups!

Well, you and those others are misinformed. You need to read up
on it and figure it out. When using the wizard, it even
automatically backs up the system state on my XP Pro.
Misinformation can be expensive. Even the MS Help file does a
pretty decent job of explaining it. And, I've used it.

Pop

 

[PopS]

Bull squat: The ntbackup program is fully useful and uses shadow
copy for its backups, so that would indicate it's capable of
backing up the os, which it can indeed do.

Why can't I just copy backup to the other drive where I'm storing
the backup image that it makes ? Then if something goes sour,
just run it from that drive ?
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

You could, actually. It's best to also store it on hard media,
but that would work fine as long as the other drive is actually a
differeny physical drive, not just a partition on the same drive.
If it resides on the same physical drive but in a different
partition, and the whole drive goes belly up, then you also lose
your backup.
But sure, you can do that.

Pop

 

[PopS]

In the OP's case where the system drive fails, it would be
necessary to
reinstall Windows (minimally as possible) in order to then be
able to run
ntbackup to perform the full restore. Disk Imaging software is
faster and
simpler as it can generally restore an image by booting from the
software's
CD.

no way to stick backup on another drive to restore the C:
partition ?

 

[Gordon]

PopS wrote:

Well, you and those others are misinformed.

Not at all. I REPEAT - IT IS A CRIPPLED VERSION OF BACKUP EXECUTIVE.
What do you not understand about the word "crippled"?

IT IS not designed FOR FULL SYSTEM BACKUPS.
It may well DO "full system backups" Have you actually tried RESTORING a
"full system backup" using it?

I'll guess probably not.