Baby fried my MB

[Geek Dad]

  Could still be anything including a power supply.  You are
shotgunning which sometimes leads to confusion AND sometimes can even
exponentially complicate a problem.  Provided was the only way to get
a reply that says something definitive.  That means VDC numbers from a
multimeter.

  How long is the list of known good components?  None.  Still
unknown: what is definitively good or definitively bad?  Even a good
supply from one machine can be completely defective in another.  A
defective supply can also boot a computer.  Just more reasons why
swapping power supplies results in ‘maybe’ answers.  Simplest solution
is to first see what exists long before replacing everything.  30
seconds using a meter is the only way you will get a useful and
definitive answer.

  Why confusion? No definitive facts. Just shotgunning which is based
in speculation and which only results in 'maybe' answers.  At this
point, you should know which components are ‘definitively’ (absolutely
no doubt) good.  Meter would have reported that in 30 seconds.

I hear ya, but then why didn't the guy at the PC shop figure this out
with his meter? He plugged the PC in , ran his meter across it and
said leave it here for diagnostic or try swapping PSU.

I don't see how someone like me, an amateur at this meter stuff, would
fair any better than a pro.

 

[westom1]

I hear ya, but then why didn't the guy at the PC shop figure this out
with his meter? He plugged the PC in , ran his meter across it and
said leave it here for diagnostic or try swapping PSU.

Many if not most computer techs do not even know what a meter does.
To pass the A+ Certified Computer tech test, one needs no electrical
knowledge.

A principle is repeatedly stated in CSI. "Follow the evidence".
How may just speculated rather than follow some facts to a conclusion?
Fundamental concepts and knowing how to use diagnostics tools is rare
in PC repair. As Consumer Reports demonstrated in a recent issue,
most computer techs could not fix a simple problem. Instead many
replaced parts that were not defective.

In another discussion, Larc followed maybe 50 speculations of 'try
this and try that' before eventually doing what others even called
(due to no technical knowledge) dangerous. When Larc finally used a
meter, a very next post immediately eliminated the supply as a suspect
and immediately traced the problem down to one definitive suspect
(in http://tinyurl.com/6khcnf ):

These numbers says the power supply is perfectly good in this
computer. ...
The relevant power supply functions are working fine. So the
power supply controller is not telling the CPU to operate, or
some other motherboard function has failed.

PC repair is chock full of repairmen who only understand shotgunning
- which is why Consumer Reports paid to replace so many perfectly good
parts and got computers fixed the first time. Instead, 'follow the
evidence'. If those numbers are posted, then a reply can be
definitive. Then also learn what happens inside a computer. All from
numbers that can be obtained in only 30 seconds so that the next reply
is informative.

In your case, VDC numbers from purple, green, and gray wires both
before and when power switch is pressed should report much without
doubt.

 

[TVeblen]

Many if not most computer techs do not even know what a meter does.
To pass the A+ Certified Computer tech test, one needs no electrical
knowledge.

A principle is repeatedly stated in CSI. "Follow the evidence".
How may just speculated rather than follow some facts to a conclusion?
Fundamental concepts and knowing how to use diagnostics tools is rare
in PC repair. As Consumer Reports demonstrated in a recent issue,
most computer techs could not fix a simple problem. Instead many
replaced parts that were not defective.

In another discussion, Larc followed maybe 50 speculations of 'try
this and try that' before eventually doing what others even called
(due to no technical knowledge) dangerous. When Larc finally used a
meter, a very next post immediately eliminated the supply as a suspect
and immediately traced the problem down to one definitive suspect
(in http://tinyurl.com/6khcnf ):

PC repair is chock full of repairmen who only understand shotgunning
- which is why Consumer Reports paid to replace so many perfectly good
parts and got computers fixed the first time. Instead, 'follow the
evidence'. If those numbers are posted, then a reply can be
definitive. Then also learn what happens inside a computer. All from
numbers that can be obtained in only 30 seconds so that the next reply
is informative.

In your case, VDC numbers from purple, green, and gray wires both
before and when power switch is pressed should report much without
doubt.

Back in the day, when my friends and I used to work on cars, we called that
diagnostic approach the NODAT method (Naw-Dat).
"It could be the alternater" - replace it - "no, Nodat".
"Maybe it's the carburetor" - replace it - "no, Nodat".

 

[Jon Danniken]

A principle is repeatedly stated in CSI. "Follow the evidence".

I tried to watch that show once. Got about five minutes into it before I
turned it off.

Jon

 

[david]

Yes, he is on this.


What part about "never letting a small child pull on or get near
electrical cords" don't YOU get?

All this is pure Skybullshit:

 

[TVeblen]

Yes, he is on this.


What part about "never letting a small child pull on or get near
electrical
cords" don't YOU get?

Flame war. Steer clear my friend.

 

[Geek Dad]

 Many if not most computer techs do not even know what a meter does.
To pass the A+ Certified Computer tech test, one needs no electrical
knowledge.

   A principle is repeatedly stated in CSI.  "Follow the evidence".
How may just speculated rather than follow some facts to a conclusion?
Fundamental concepts and knowing how to use diagnostics tools is rare
in PC repair.  As Consumer Reports demonstrated in a recent issue,
most computer techs could not fix a simple problem.  Instead many
replaced parts that were not defective.

  In another discussion, Larc followed maybe 50 speculations of 'try
this and try that' before eventually doing what others even called
(due to no technical knowledge) dangerous.  When Larc finally used a
meter, a very next post immediately eliminated the supply as a suspect
and immediately traced the problem down to one definitive suspect
(in    http://tinyurl.com/6khcnf):


  PC repair is chock full of repairmen who only understand shotgunning
- which is why Consumer Reports paid to replace so many perfectly good
parts and got computers fixed the first time.  Instead, 'follow the
evidence'.  If those numbers are posted, then a reply can be
definitive. Then also learn what happens inside a computer.   All from
numbers that can be obtained in only 30 seconds so that the next reply
is informative.

  In your case, VDC numbers from purple, green, and gray wires both
before and when power switch is pressed should report much without
doubt.

OK well here's an update.

Received the new motherboard from New Egg. GA-EP45-DS3L. Swapped with
the supposed dead one. Computer still won't come on. Take it to the
local shop - they say they'll look at it, give it 3-5 business days.
They call me back in 3 hours and say it's the motherboard. I say wow,
but it's brand new. They say they everything works - even used my PSU
to power another machine. HDD, CPU, RAM all OK. I pickup the PC from
them, take it home, look inside, and I dunno, doesn't look like they
did anything with it.

But while I was on the phone with them when they called to say it's
the MB, i asked if they sold MB's, they asked where I got mine, I said
New Egg, they said they'd get it from a place like that too and only
end up charging me more, and the guy said he doesn't want to rip me
off (something to that afffect).

So I don't think they're lying. I just never expected a brand new MB
to be DOA, though i see it happen to others. Just my time I guess.

I got an ASUS P5Q PRO coming this time.

 

[westom1]

OK well here's an update.

Received the new motherboard from New Egg. GA-EP45-DS3L. Swapped with
the supposed dead one. Computer still won't come on. Take it to the
local shop ... They say they everything works - even used my PSU
to power another machine. HDD, CPU, RAM all OK. ...

But while I was on the phone with them when they called to say it's
the MB, i asked if they sold MB's, they asked where I got mine, I said
New Egg, they said they'd get it from a place ...

Which sounds very much like what Consumer Reports saw. They moved
the power supply to another system and it worked? That power supply
can still be defective in your system. But then shotgunning does not
provide definitive results.

No way to know 'definitively' that a power supply is good except by
measuring voltages in your computer. By an engineer's standard,
nobody yet knows if your power supply 'system' is good. Yes a
system. To know means the meter.

How many parts and how much labor and how much time and how much
money because everyone is shotgunning? We still do not know if the
supply 'system' is even working properly.

At this point you should have a list of what is 'definitively' good
and 'definitively bad'. Accomplishment is measured by the list's
length. That list is empty. Why? Shotgunning does not provide
definitive answers. We don't even know if the supply is 'defintively'
good.

Your problem is a computer that does not even execute its BIOS.
Then why are they testing HDD, and RAM? Why not also test keyboard,
video controller, and DVD drive? Exactly what Consumer Reports saw.
The technician only understands shotgunning - not how a computer
works.

Meanwhile, in this newsgroup are people with massive training and
experience. You are not using your best source. No numbers means
those with useful information must stay silent. Your replies will
only be as useful as the numbers posted. Shotgunning: wild
speculation solved nothing. They even wasted time testing the HDD and
RAM? He only understood shotgunning. So he blamed the motherboard.
(Well how does he know the CPU is good? He doesn't.)

So, if you replace the motherboard and it works, then what damage
did the baby cause. The reason we do our own repairs? Not to save
time or money. We do this to learn. If the new motherboard works,
then what was learned? Nothing. You still have no idea why the
baby's actions caused damage. Same reason why 'professonal
shotgunners' don't learn how computers works.

 

[Geek Dad]

  Which sounds very much like what Consumer Reports saw.  They moved
the power supply to another system and it worked?  That power supply
can still be defective in your system.  But then shotgunning does not
provide definitive results.

  No way to know 'definitively' that a power supply is good except by
measuring voltages in your computer.  By an engineer's standard,
nobody yet knows if your power supply 'system' is good.    Yes a
system.   To know means the meter.

  How many parts and how much labor and how much time and how much
money because everyone is shotgunning?  We still do not know if the
supply 'system' is even working properly.

  At this point you should have a list of what is 'definitively' good
and 'definitively bad'.  Accomplishment is measured by the list's
length.  That list is empty.  Why?  Shotgunning does not provide
definitive answers.  We don't even know if the supply is 'defintively'
good.

  Your problem is a computer that does not even execute its BIOS.
Then why are they testing HDD, and RAM? Why not also test keyboard,
video controller, and DVD drive?  Exactly what Consumer Reports saw.
The technician only understands shotgunning - not how a computer
works.

  Meanwhile, in this newsgroup are people with massive training and
experience.  You are not using your best source.  No numbers means
those with useful information must stay silent.  Your replies will
only be as useful as the numbers posted.  Shotgunning: wild
speculation solved nothing.  They even wasted time testing the HDD and
RAM?   He only understood shotgunning. So he blamed the motherboard.
(Well how does he know the CPU is good? He doesn't.)

  So, if you replace the motherboard and it works, then what damage
did the baby cause.  The reason we do our own repairs?  Not to save
time or money.  We do this to learn.  If the new motherboard works,
then what was learned?  Nothing.  You still have no idea why the
baby's actions caused damage. Same reason why 'professonal
shotgunners' don't learn how computers works.

So what kind of meter do I buy at a reasonable price and what can I
read to learn what the numbers mean?

Could the PSU have a short in it, so whenever it is plugged into a new
MB it will fry it?

 

[westom1]

So what kind of meter do I buy at a reasonable price and what can I
read to learn what the numbers mean?

Could the PSU have a short in it, so whenever it is plugged into a new
MB it will fry it.

If any power supply harms a motherboard, then the human bought a
supply that would not even meet standards 35 years ago. Having said
that, many power supplies marketed to computer assemblers and A+
Certified Techs may not have such required functions.

How does one know if those required functions exist? A power supply
that contains required functions will also provide a full sheet of
spec numbers. Power supplies marketed to computer assemblers provide
no specs - so that required functions can be missing and since they
are selling to people who do not know how electricity works anyway.

3.5 digit multimeter are sold where ever hammers are sold for about
the same price. Meters are sold in Lowes, Kmart, Radio Shack, a
hardware store, Sears, Home Depot, and Wal-mart. Obviously the last
store typically has the best price.

Set the meter to 20 VDC. Touch leads to each wire. Record number
to three significant digits. Post numbers here. Have a definitive
answer. Yes, even cell phones and Ipods are far more complicated and
more dangerous.

Once those numbers (from both before and when switch is pressed) are
posted, then you learn what those numbers are saying AND how a power
supply 'system' works.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

So what kind of meter do I buy at a reasonable price and what can I
read to learn what the numbers mean?

Your willingness to learn is laudable, but you're wasting your time with
westom. Your PSU has been tested and shown to power another system, so
is highly unlikely to be the faulty component.

westom used to post as (e-mail address removed), and is the village idiot. If you
search Google groups for him, you'll see he is a monomaniac with a bee
in his bonnet about power supplies and surge protection. If you do get
a multimeter and provide the voltage readings he is wittering on about,
he'll spout a load of waffle that will leave you none the wiser and no
closer to fixing your machine.