Shut Down and Start Up Issues


D

Dano

I have been having a shut down and start up issue that I think is so
simplistic, yet confounding, that I have decided to post here.

My computer runs properly, and all things are swell, until I shut down
from Windows XP Home SP2. My computer was built for me using an Inwin
box (looks a lot like this one:
http://www.in-win.us/products_pccase.php) and a Intel Motherboard,
please see specs below. I shut it down, through Start>Turn Off
Computer>Shut Down, and it shuts down fine, but I cannot use the power
button the front to start it up again. I have to use this wacked out
procedure to start it up again:

1. Turn off main computer switch in back of tower.
2. Turn off Power to surge protector
3. Wait 5 seconds
4. Flip back on power on the back of the tower
5. Flip on bower to surge protector

Computer starts after that. What settings do I have wrong? Is it
bios, is it electrical, is it something else?

Here is the strange part, when I tested in the past and plugged right
into my wall (sans surge protector), this did not happen, but this
never happened until about 6 months ago and I have brought in a new
surge protector.

Thanks.
Dano

BIOS Date: 02/13/05
BIOS Type: American Megatrends licensed to Intel
BIOS ID: 63-0100-000001-00101111-021305-iSPGDL_G-RL865006
OEM Sign-On: BIOS Date: 02/13/05 22:02:08 V
Chipset: Intel 2570 rev 2
Superio: Unknown
OS: WinXP SP2
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 processor 2600 Mhz MAX: 3060 Mhz
BIOS ROM In Socket: No
BIOS ROM Size: 512K
Memory Installed: 1536 MB
Memory Maximum: 4096 MB
Memory Slot 01: 256 MB
Memory Slot 02: 512 MB
Memory Slot 03: 256 MB
Memory Slot 04: 512 MB
ACPI Revision: 1.0
 
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R

Rod Speed

Dano said:
I have been having a shut down and start up issue that I think is
so simplistic, yet confounding, that I have decided to post here.
My computer runs properly, and all things are swell, until
I shut down from Windows XP Home SP2. My computer
was built for me using an Inwin box (looks a lot like this one:
http://www.in-win.us/products_pccase.php) and a Intel Motherboard,
please see specs below. I shut it down, through Start>Turn Off
Computer>Shut Down, and it shuts down fine, but I cannot use the power
button the front to start it up again. I have to use this wacked out
procedure to start it up again:
1. Turn off main computer switch in back of tower.
2. Turn off Power to surge protector

You likely dont have to do this one, its the first one and 3rd that matter.
3. Wait 5 seconds
4. Flip back on power on the back of the tower
5. Flip on bower to surge protector
Computer starts after that. What settings do I have wrong?
Is it bios, is it electrical, is it something else?

Likely a flakey power supply.
Here is the strange part, when I tested in the past and
plugged right into my wall (sans surge protector), this did
not happen, but this never happened until about 6 months
ago and I have brought in a new surge protector.

Unlikely to be relevant except in the sense that
thats when the power supply got raped by a spike.
 
D

Dano

Sorry we are doing this on two posts, my bad.

What is your suggestion, take it in and replace the PSU? Do PSU's go
after a while? Are they easy to reinstall?
 
P

PH

Dano said:
Sorry we are doing this on two posts, my bad.

What is your suggestion, take it in and replace the PSU? Do PSU's go
after a while? Are they easy to reinstall?
If you decide to replace it unplug the female end of the power cord from the
PC, gently disconnect the longer multi pin connector from the MB by pressing
on the side tab. Next unplug the IDE hdd, cd-rom and floppy drive power
connectors then make sure you hold the PSU before you remove the last of the
4 screws. It.s easy.
 
W

w_tom

Dano said:
Sorry we are doing this on two posts, my bad.

What is your suggestion, take it in and replace the PSU? Do PSU's go
after a while? Are they easy to reinstall?

As in other posts, some recommend fixing something without knowing
what is wrong. A 3.5 digit multimeter (sold by so many stores that
also sell the other tool you need - a screwdriver) would report in but
two minutes the suspect. Replacing a power supply may only temporarily
mask a failure.

Use meter to first measure purple wire voltage (from power supply to
motherboard) by pushing probe into nylon connector body and other probe
connected to chassis. Do not disconnect anything (since disconnecting
only complicates the problem). With computer powered off but plugged
into AC receptacle, that voltage must exceed 4.87 volts DC. Next
measure green wire. That voltage must be more than 2 volts before
switch is pressed and must drop down to less than 0.8 volts when switch
is pressed. If so, then power supply controller is telling power
supply to turn on.

Next measure gray wire voltage. Within seconds of switch press, that
voltage must rise to more than 2.4 volts and then must remain there.
Record that result and move on.

Finally measure voltage of one red, orange, and yellow wire as power
switch is pressed. Each voltage must rise immediately and remain above
3.23, 4.87, or 11.7 volts DC.

These numbers should identify what is and is not working. If these
numbers are then posted, further information may be provided. No
numbers and every post must be 'try this and try that'; also called
shotgunning.

Don't replace anything until a suspect is first identified. Those
numbers may even identify a failure before that failure happens. Meter
makes replies to your posts more useful, can even identify intermittent
failures before those failures occur, and identifies a suspect in but
minutes. Even swapping power supplies takes longer - and still may
only cure symptoms rather than the problem. Get the meter. Solution
for so little money that fixes it the first time - and without
shotgunning.
 
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R

Rod Speed

w_tom said:
Dano wrote
As in other posts, some recommend fixing
something without knowing what is wrong.

And you cant even manage to work out what the ATX specs say are acceptible voltages.
A 3.5 digit multimeter (sold by so many stores that also sell the other tool
you need - a screwdriver) would report in but two minutes the suspect.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
Replacing a power supply may only temporarily mask a failure.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

<reams of your repetetive pig ignorant drivel flushed where it belongs>
 
D

Davej

Rod said:
And you cant even manage to work out what the ATX specs say are acceptible voltages.


Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

Don't stop there Rod, go ahead and describe your own equipment and
procedure.
 
R

Rod Speed

Davej said:
Rod Speed wrote
Don't stop there Rod, go ahead and describe your own equipment and procedure.

Varys with the circumstances. If the symptoms fit a bad power
supply, I would normally measure the rails if the system doesnt
start at all, and have enough of a clue to be able to read and
comprehend the ATX specs on what the rail voltages should be.

If the problem is with the system starting, and the rails dont
even come up at all with a meter, I'd normally check to see if
the PS_ON# line is dropping when the power switch is pressed.

If the rails come up fine, but the system still doesnt start, I'd
normally check to see whether POWER GOOD comes up or not.

Mainly because those checks are easier to do than swapping
a power supply *IF* you have a multimeter and I do.

BUT if the symptoms are more subtle, I wouldnt normally bother
measuring the ripple on the rails, even tho I do have a CRO,
if I can try another power supply easily and I normally can.

And while I do have a very decent max/min multimeter, I wouldnt
normally use that instead of trying another power supply, basically
because its a lot quicker to try another power supply.

His claim that you can work out whether the power supply is at
fault with a multimeter in tw minutes is just plain pig ignorant drivel.
Sometimes you can, quite often you cant.
 
D

Davej

Rod said:
Varys with the circumstances. If the symptoms fit a bad power
supply, I would normally measure the rails if the system doesnt
start at all, and have enough of a clue to be able to read and
comprehend the ATX specs on what the rail voltages should be.

If the problem is with the system starting, and the rails dont
even come up at all with a meter, I'd normally check to see if
the PS_ON# line is dropping when the power switch is pressed.

If the rails come up fine, but the system still doesnt start, I'd
normally check to see whether POWER GOOD comes up or not.

Mainly because those checks are easier to do than swapping
a power supply *IF* you have a multimeter and I do.

BUT if the symptoms are more subtle, I wouldnt normally bother
measuring the ripple on the rails, even tho I do have a CRO,
if I can try another power supply easily and I normally can.

And while I do have a very decent max/min multimeter, I wouldnt
normally use that instead of trying another power supply, basically
because its a lot quicker to try another power supply.

His claim that you can work out whether the power supply is at
fault with a multimeter in tw minutes is just plain pig ignorant drivel.
Sometimes you can, quite often you cant.

Well, I don't see the point of worrying too much about exact voltage
tolerances when they are going to be measured with a cheap meter of
questionable accuracy. Maybe this guy doesn't have another supply to
swap in. Why express so much hostility over such a trivial matter?
 
R

Rod Speed

Davej said:
Rod Speed wrote
Well, I don't see the point of worrying too much about exact voltage tolerances
when they are going to be measured with a cheap meter of questionable accuracy.

Its MUCH worse than that. That fool plucked those stupid numbers
out of his arse and proved to the world that he cant even manage
to read and comprehend the ATX specs on the acceptable voltages
for the rails, or how a multimeter works either.

What he has actually done is taken the minimum voltages that the
ATX specs allow for each rail and has added the max ripple to those.
Maybe this guy doesn't have another supply to swap in.

Irrelevant to Wanker Tom's mindlessly silly claim that you can decide
if the power supply is faulty in just 2 minutes with a multimeter.
Why express so much hostility over such a trivial matter?

It isnt a trivial matter if anyone is stupid enough to believe his
stupid claims that a power supply is faulty if you dont get more
than the minimum rail voltages he has plucked out of his arse.

I put the boot in because he keeps repeating this drivel every
single time someone has a fault that can be a bad power supply,
even when every single individual who has ever commented has
rubbed his nose in the terminal stupidity of his pig ignorant claims.

He's even worse on surge protection and appears to hunt down
every post he can find that mentions either of them and spews his
drivel every time he finds one.

Its important that those who dont understand the
basics have the drivel pointed out for what it is.
 
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O

OSbandito

Well, I don't see the point of worrying too much about exact voltage
tolerances when they are going to be measured with a cheap meter of
questionable accuracy. Maybe this guy doesn't have another supply to
swap in. Why express so much hostility over such a trivial matter?


What's a voltmeter?
 
W

w_tom

What's a voltmeter?

A tool so ubiquitous as to be sold for $20 in Wal-Mart, Sears, Lowes,
Radio Shack, K-mart, or Home Depot. Choose any store. As for their
3.5 digit multimeter as found in any tool or electrical department.
 
O

OSbandito

w_tom said:
A tool so ubiquitous as to be sold for $20 in Wal-Mart, Sears, >Lowes, Radio Shack, K-mart, or Home Depot. Choose any store. As for >their 3.5 digit multimeter as found in any tool or electrical >department.

Thanks w_tom, I thought you guys would know I was joking.
You were decent to offer a serious reply. Sorry for being an assbite.
Can't seem to help it.
 
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J

JAD

OSbandito said:
OSbandito inquired:



Davej found a good deal on a Fluke:

Davej, You were kind to respond to my moronic question. I only asked it
because of previous posts which involved some crabby comments on DMM's.
I was actually born with an (analog) meter in my hand.

Best

born with an anal log in your hand?................................
 

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