Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (939) & Abit AN8 'Fatal1ty': Compatible?

G

George Macdonald

It does, but only at the cost of giving them the power and legitimacy
of elected officals. Notice how US politics changed after the 19th
Amendment (direct election of Senators)

Yes, well it is rather lamentable that some of the worst seem to be so
difficult to err, dislodge. Then again, there have been some remarkable
successes.
No. Only in certain predictable situations where the
authorities have probable cause.

Be prepared to spend a night in jail then - probable cause is easy for the
cops when they've a mind to... it's happened.
Easy to put into drivers licences. Lots of antenna space.
So carry yours in a metal cigarette case and get stopped.

There ya go - now you have an I.D. Implants are, I'm sure, on the agenda
in the not too distant future... and apparently we already have
"volunteers".:)
Some alignment, but only the sense of common-enemy.

Seems like your Euro-exposure did not include a brush with the old "class
system." I suppose to people there, growing up with it would result in a
unique mind set anyway.
As for people waking-up, nope. Until people are willing
to abandon the nanny-state protections, they're still dreaming.

It won't happen globally, all at once - it *is* starting to happen. The
Penguins of Brussels have accelerated the process.
Of course not. Nor of those in the US NE.


Yes, mostly because the job market is moribund (due to job
protections) so getting laid off is a much bigger deal than
in the US.

No - not at all. Some of the tax laws they have are an insult to the
general population/employee force... lots of paper companies with near-zero
assets. The job market is in the pan because they have had a steady stream
of recently added EU member coutries with err, very attractive labor
rates... temporary abberations.
 
G

George Macdonald

Hardly. Euro tractor-trailers are 12 wheelers. US std is 18.
US engines are typically 400-500 HP, Euros are 230-420 HP.
Euros use cab-over-engine designs and don't have sleepers.

I'm sure I've seen Euro ones with a berth. So the Volvos/M-Bs we see here
are different vresions? Either way time to get rid of the buggers and
develop a proper rail freight system.
If they lived there, how long does it take to get a camera?
The towers bured for 1-2 hours before collapsing. If they
really did have "prior knowledge" (which I sincerely doubt),
then they potentially are accessories-before-the-fact and
ought to be questioned & perhaps charged.

What is it that you do not understand about "... photos of planes hitting
WTC"? Now take a look at a map of NJ - figure at least a 1.5hr drive to
get from NW to Hoboken. The "prior knowledge" thing has umpteen examples
of which I know some detail about two. Both were reported to the F.B.I.;
in the first case, that family is no longer managing the Exxon gas station
but F.B.I. feedback was understandably absent; in the 2nd case, it is known
that when the F.B.I. showed up at the residence, it was stripped. You'd
better believe "they" are among us and ready to do us harm - learn from the
U.K. Read the Berman article I cited for the inspiration.
 
D

Dave

Robert Redelmeier said:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald


It does, but only at the cost of giving them the power and legitimacy
of elected officals. Notice how US politics changed after the 19th
Amendment (direct election of Senators)


No. Only in certain predictable situations where the
authorities have probable cause.


Easy to put into drivers licences. Lots of antenna space.
So carry yours in a metal cigarette case and get stopped.


They can. There are always some trophy non-conforming uses.
But with them, the zones get manipulated for developer's
gain and enormous corruption potential.


Some alignment, but only the sense of common-enemy.

Conspiracy theory or just a con?
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
So the Volvos/M-Bs we see here are different vresions?

Mostly. I suspect some of the city tractors might be Euro
version, but getting US DOT approval wound't be easy.
Either way time to get rid of the buggers and develop a
proper rail freight system.

Everything has a place. Do you think your AMD Venice should
have spent weeks on a train?
What is it that you do not understand about "... photos of
planes hitting WTC"?

OK -- two innocent possibilities: A relative was visiting
and in NYC with camera (playing tourist); or Polaroids were
taken from TV looping. Both very likely.
You'd better believe "they" are among us and ready to do
us harm

So what else is new? There have always been enemies without
and within. Should we do more harm to ourselves trying to
stop them by expensive measures?
- learn from the U.K.

Actually, it now looks like the "suicide" bombers weren't.
They were duped by their controllers into carrying devices they
didn't think would be detonated. Not good for the terrorist's
recuitment efforts.

-- Robert
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
Be prepared to spend a night in jail then - probable cause
is easy for the cops when they've a mind to... it's happened.

Of course it has happened. But much less often since cops
undergo more rigorous psych testing, are afraid of false
arrest lawsuits and Miranda rights are well known.
Seems like your Euro-exposure did not include a brush
with the old "class system." I suppose to people there,
growing up with it would result in a unique mind set anyway.

I saw the class system in spades. And no sign of nostalgia.
Some tendency towards classic liberalism while the aristocracy
is tainted by association with the far right.
It won't happen globally, all at once - it *is* starting to
happen. The Penguins of Brussels have accelerated the process.

This they have done. Alienated people.
The job market is in the pan because they have had a steady
stream of recently added EU member coutries with err,
very attractive labor rates... temporary abberations.

Polish plumbers might have affected the Netherlands (although
they've also suffered from the deflation of a housing bubble).
But France's malaise started _long_ before enlargement. Germany's
started with reunification with the "kill'em with kindness" 1 OM =
1 DM. They expected 20 years of trouble. France did not.

-- Robert
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

Dave said:
Conspiracy theory or just a con?

Conspiracy theories require their perpetrators to be intelligent
(often with hindsight-quality foresight) and trusting of their allies.
Neither usually obtains.

-- Robert
 
G

George Macdonald

Mostly. I suspect some of the city tractors might be Euro
version, but getting US DOT approval wound't be easy.

I think you know what I mean - not that BHP is all that useful as a measure
of truck performance anyway but the high powered, recent-model Euro-trucks
are no slouches. Have you not seen the racing series?:) I've certainly
seen long-haul Volvos and M-Bs around here and I did not notice any
particular sluggishness in trucks on recent visits to France or the U.K....
just as much a nuisance as they are in the U.S. but with maybe a bit more
discipline on lane usage.
Everything has a place. Do you think your AMD Venice should
have spent weeks on a train?

An efficient rail system should be much faster than any road transport and
it'd save a lot of costs on road repairs and aggravation. Even the rail
system we have, as bad as it is in some parts of the U.S., could easily
compete on cost and shipping time... if it didn't have to go up against the
err, Teamsters.:-(
OK -- two innocent possibilities: A relative was visiting
and in NYC with camera (playing tourist); or Polaroids were
taken from TV looping. Both very likely.

"Possibilities" or "likely"? Sorry but you're being awfully presumptious
in concocting a contorted scenario and with no knowledge of the facts. Oh
and stills of TV footage are easy to recognize.
So what else is new? There have always been enemies without
and within. Should we do more harm to ourselves trying to
stop them by expensive measures?

I've already said, I believe the solution has to come from within the
Islamic "world". All that's been published so far, that I've seen, is that
they're "worried about a backlash against innocent, peaceful Muslims". I
just hope that someone in "authority" in the U.K. is having umm,
discussions with their senior clerics and suggesting it's about time to
clean their "house"... locally at least.

As for enemies within, this one is of a new cast and with a brazen dogma
which makes our most devout members of any current Western faith or belief
system appear quite relaxed and easy going. Hell there are calls from the
U.K. extremists to establish a caliphate there. That's treasonous.
Actually, it now looks like the "suicide" bombers weren't.
They were duped by their controllers into carrying devices they
didn't think would be detonated. Not good for the terrorist's
recuitment efforts.

All I've seen on that is that it is a highly speculative theory which is so
far being dismissed by the investigators (no timing device residue)... and
it doesn't make much sense to me, nor, from my POV, to the bombers.
Zealous or just stupid does not change the result nor the prognosis.
 
G

George Macdonald

I saw the class system in spades. And no sign of nostalgia.
Some tendency towards classic liberalism while the aristocracy
is tainted by association with the far right.

I think the landed gentry do have a nostalgia for the "old days". If by
"far right" you mean neo-Nazi I haven't seen any of that, though it does
exist to some extent everywhere. That's not what I was referring to though
with the distaste, which is more to do with association with the
self-supposed divinely righted indolent.
Polish plumbers might have affected the Netherlands (although
they've also suffered from the deflation of a housing bubble).
But France's malaise started _long_ before enlargement. Germany's
started with reunification with the "kill'em with kindness" 1 OM =
1 DM. They expected 20 years of trouble. France did not.

Economies go through cycles. I do wonder sometimes how the French, in
particular, are able to offer themselves such luxuries as the TGV and the
Paris Metro; then there's the Brits who had by far the best rail system in
the world and they managed to **** it all up.

At any rate, I believe that one of the things that's happened here is that
just when the up-cycle should have kicked in, an EU enlargement squelched
it, all aggravated by the EU central planning "initiatives"... and it's a
*lot* bigger than a few plumbers: major industrial projects are crossing
the old frontiers, and the jobs with them - another point of resentment
against the EC.
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
An efficient rail system should be much faster than

Ah, a railroad romantic. I gotta admit a freight at speed
is a marvelous sight. Unfortunately, that's the easy part.
I've worked as a dispatcher. Freight doesn't shunt itself
(pax do!) and those cars need to be switched along just
barely enough siding. Modern humping helps.

Rail is good for certain kinds of freight -- high volume/weight
and relatively low value. Point-to-point. If you rail
freight is a slam-dunk, why do the Euros and Japanese still
have a lot of road trucks?

Sure, there are improvements possible in the us. I believe
intermodal with truck pickup & delivery of 40ft containers
to railheads is increasing.
"Possibilities" or "likely"? Sorry but you're being awfully
presumptious in concocting a contorted scenario and with
no knowledge of the facts.

Well, you haven't described it fully in one place.
Oh and stills of TV footage are easy to recognize.

Perhaps some if the frame is showing. You didn't say
who inspected the polaroids closely.
I've already said, I believe the solution has to come from
within the Islamic "world". All that's been published
so far, that I've seen, is that they're "worried about a
backlash against innocent, peaceful Muslims". I just hope

Because that's all that would sell here. Absence of
proof isn't proof of absence.
Hell there are calls from the U.K. extremists to establish
a caliphate there. That's treasonous.

As was the US Revolution. All treason isn't bad.
Notice how the story got picked up, though.

-- Robert
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
I think the landed gentry do have a nostalgia for the "old days".

They might well. It wasn't their nostalgia I was referring to.
I was saying that I haven't seen any nostalgia for the class-system
in the masses of common people in Europe.
I do wonder sometimes how the French, in particular, are
able to offer themselves such luxuries as the TGV and the
Paris Metro;

I'm not entirely sure they're luxuries (whatever those are),
but it's extremely easy: tax and spend.
then there's the Brits who had by far the best rail system
in the world and they managed to **** it all up.

err ... Teamsters? :)
At any rate, I believe that one of the things that's happened
here is that just when the up-cycle should have kicked in,
an EU enlargement squelched it, all aggravated by the EU

A self-justifying logic. How do you know macro economies go
in these "cycles", and how do you know it would have turned up?
Watch out -- you might find yourself arguing for the dismal science!

-- Robert
 
N

Nate Edel

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Robert Redelmeier said:
As was the US Revolution. All treason isn't bad. Notice how the story got
picked up, though.

As Benjamin Franklin is reported to have said, rebellion is only treason in
the third person.
 
G

George Macdonald

Ah, a railroad romantic. I gotta admit a freight at speed
is a marvelous sight. Unfortunately, that's the easy part.
I've worked as a dispatcher. Freight doesn't shunt itself
(pax do!) and those cars need to be switched along just
barely enough siding. Modern humping helps.

Antiquated methods... lack of vision/investment.
Rail is good for certain kinds of freight -- high volume/weight
and relatively low value. Point-to-point. If you rail
freight is a slam-dunk, why do the Euros and Japanese still
have a lot of road trucks?

I didn't say the Euros were more enlightened here.:)
Sure, there are improvements possible in the us. I believe
intermodal with truck pickup & delivery of 40ft containers
to railheads is increasing.

That is the way! If you look at the transformation in the sea-ports and
trans-oceanic shipping, it's kinda obvious that with the right kinds of
rail freight terminals and local trucking, there are huge improvements
possible... both in terms of cost, efficiency and (one of your favorites
:)) reduction in petroleum consumption. You'd need excellent (adaptive)
scheduling but that is all possible.
Well, you haven't described it fully in one place.


Perhaps some if the frame is showing. You didn't say
who inspected the polaroids closely.

I figured you might accept some of the facts without a detailed sketch,
which I'd rather not get into... and a frame is not necessary to recognize
a photo of a TV image at 525 interlaced.
Because that's all that would sell here. Absence of
proof isn't proof of absence.

The evidence is kinda obvious - in your face even. The extreme Muslim
clerics in the U.K. are now even more belligerent - I believe they *want*
to be deported now and I hope they get their wish.
As was the US Revolution. All treason isn't bad.
Notice how the story got picked up, though.

The govt. in power still has the right/obligation to punish seditious
behavior, especially when it's coming from non-citizen "guests"... and the
U.S. revolution was a wee bit different in that respect. For those
claiming birthrights one can always adopt the Swiss model for citizenship
qualification... something I've always considered vaguely fascist but......
 
G

George Macdonald

They might well. It wasn't their nostalgia I was referring to.
I was saying that I haven't seen any nostalgia for the class-system
in the masses of common people in Europe.

In the masses, I don't see much different there from the social layering
based on economic status that we have in the U.S. I think we agree on the
distaste for having to continue dealing with their social anachronisms...
even worse when it comes to the "parvenus" who think they've err,
"arrived".
I'm not entirely sure they're luxuries (whatever those are),
but it's extremely easy: tax and spend.

It's just that compared with others, the French rail systems are superb...
IOW a luxury. The Paris Metro, in particular, has no comparison in any
other place that I've seen, including Tokyo.
err ... Teamsters? :)

No, the unions had been neutralized long before the Tories
(Thatcher/Major[clueless git]) embarked on their entrepreneurial
adventurism. The U.K.s perpetual economic problems have as much to do with
incompetent management as zealous unions - it's a different system, with
inherited class system expectations. It was "management" who created un
unmanagable web of bickering companies to run a "railroad". Personally I
don't think you can run a top class rail system without taxation subsidies
- the historical evidence supports me there... and it *is* a national
resource.
A self-justifying logic.

Maybe but if anyone believes that the revitalisation of the Irish and East
German economies has not hurt other EU national economies, they're
dreaming. Maybe it's not "zero sum" but it's damned close.:)
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
That is the way! If you look at the transformation in the
sea-ports and trans-oceanic shipping, it's kinda obvious
that with the right kinds of rail freight terminals and local
trucking, there are huge improvements possible...

Well, absolutely large (and will be pursued) but NOT relatively
large :) The US already moves 3x more freight by rail than
interstate trucking:
http://www.census.gov/prod/www/statistical-abstract-04.html
have a look at table 1052 for 1999 (latest avail):
Rail 1499 billion ton-miles
ICC truck 499
non-ICC truck 594

local trucks already carry more than long-haul. Yes,
long haul is increasing fast but this is to be expected
as the economy produces more and more high value goods.
Your AMD Venice CPUs go by truck if not air.
I figured you might accept some of the facts without a
detailed sketch, which I'd rather not get into... and a

Very difficult to comment, then. Facts I accept, but need
enough. I'm afraid I accept very few conclusions from others.
It takes data. All I have here is some kids had Polaroids of
9/11 around 7pm in a place 1.5h from ground zero. Obviously
couldn't have driven in to get them if they were taken on-site.
If not from TV, were taken by someone in place with a camera.
Could be visiting friend/family doing the tourist thing. Could be
friend/family evac'd. I doubt the complicit or conspirators
would show anything to kids -- they're known blabbermouths.
frame is not necessary to recognize a photo of a TV image
at 525 interlaced.

Sometimes, depending on the sharpness of the monitor and
focus of the camera lens. The raster lines aren't always visible.
The extreme Muslim clerics in the U.K. are now even more
belligerent - I believe they *want* to be deported now and
I hope they get their wish.

In the UK, there is very little to stop their deportation.
The govt. in power still has the right/obligation to
punish seditious behavior,

Sedition _is_ a crime in the UK. Not in the US where it has
to elevate to treason before it becomes a crime.
especially when it's coming from non-citizen "guests"...

I think even the US can revoke visas for sedition.

-- Robert
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
In the masses, I don't see much different there from the social
layering based on economic status that we have in the U.S.

Sure there is. Money counts for less and family/breeding more
in the EU. Family only much counts here through money.
The Paris Metro, in particular, has no comparison in any
other place that I've seen, including Tokyo.

le metro is excellent, mostly for the density of stations.
Tokyo is hobbled by two competing subsway companies, plus JR.
Even New York amalgamated it's system. I think Paris had
one competing company, but not for long. Tokyo also is a
bit of a ring city around the Imperial Palace grounds and
this topography complicates design.
Personally I don't think you can run a top class rail system
without taxation subsidies - the historical evidence supports
me there... and it *is* a national resource.

Well, what about other national infrastructure, like phone system?
Pipelines? Airlines? Subsidies are necessary when other competing
alternatives are preferred [cheaper] so pricing makes the venture
non-viable. Much rail passenger traffic falls into this class.
Not freight.
Maybe but if anyone believes that the revitalisation of
the Irish and East German economies has not hurt other
EU national economies, they're dreaming. Maybe it's not
"zero sum" but it's damned close.:)

Hmm ... that's an odd way of looking at it. Prosperity in one
place diminishing it in another? [Relative prosperity, sure]
But did the growth of America impoverish Europe? England grew
enormously from trade with the US. Does the growth in India and
China impoverish America today? IMHO, cheap imports are a major
factor restraining inflation from the staggering US household,
govt and trade deficits We'll see what happens now that China
has revalued the yuan.

-- Robert
 
G

George Macdonald

Well, absolutely large (and will be pursued) but NOT relatively
large :) The US already moves 3x more freight by rail than
interstate trucking:
http://www.census.gov/prod/www/statistical-abstract-04.html
have a look at table 1052 for 1999 (latest avail):
Rail 1499 billion ton-miles
ICC truck 499
non-ICC truck 594

local trucks already carry more than long-haul. Yes,
long haul is increasing fast but this is to be expected
as the economy produces more and more high value goods.
Your AMD Venice CPUs go by truck if not air.

I'm wondering why you focus on *my* "AMD Venice"? Are you recalling the
bent pins?:) A cross-country trip should certainly be faster by rail;
with the right terminal/local facilities, the end result should be an
improvement, as I see it. The difference in total environmental impact is
huge.

As for the increase in long-haul, from my observations, the level of
surveillance has decreased over recent years so that many trucks are
overloaded. The results in the rate of deterioration of roads and
occurence of mobile road-blocks is striking... here in NJ at any rate. IOW
"increase" operates in two senses here and real costs are hard to figure.
Very difficult to comment, then. Facts I accept, but need
enough. I'm afraid I accept very few conclusions from others.
It takes data. All I have here is some kids had Polaroids of
9/11 around 7pm in a place 1.5h from ground zero. Obviously
couldn't have driven in to get them if they were taken on-site.
If not from TV, were taken by someone in place with a camera.
Could be visiting friend/family doing the tourist thing. Could be
friend/family evac'd. I doubt the complicit or conspirators
would show anything to kids -- they're known blabbermouths.

I suspect you did not read the details correctly and your data definitely
got garbled: I don't know from where you got 7pm?? As already stated: on
9/12 the kids of the local gas station manager, huddled in front of the
store entrance, were babbling/gloating over pics of planes *hitting* the
WTC and the aftermath. When asked, they said they'd been "down there
yesterday in Hoboken at 7.30 *am*", i.e. ~1hr20min before the first impact.
I've explained all the rest - the chances of this being an opportunistic
event are nil IMO.
Sometimes, depending on the sharpness of the monitor and
focus of the camera lens. The raster lines aren't always visible.

There's more than raster lines - TV photos have a certain image "quality"
which I don't think is hard to determine... unless they're so bad that the
image itself is hard to make out.
In the UK, there is very little to stop their deportation.

I have to think the govt. is afraid of the possibility of a backlash by
the supposedly non-violent fundamentalist Muslim population. It *could*
also violate some EU human rights regs.:-(
 
G

George Macdonald

Sure there is. Money counts for less and family/breeding more
in the EU. Family only much counts here through money.

Sorry but I never saw that among friends, colleagues, relatives etc... all
outside the "upper-crust", where my acquaintance is err, limited.:)
le metro is excellent, mostly for the density of stations.
Tokyo is hobbled by two competing subsway companies, plus JR.
Even New York amalgamated it's system. I think Paris had
one competing company, but not for long. Tokyo also is a
bit of a ring city around the Imperial Palace grounds and
this topography complicates design.

Paris never had a "competing company" in the >30years I've known it but I
see it as a luxury in terms of the tire/rail system (mind-boggling cost),
convenience, comfort, frequency and especially fare cost. Obviously it
cannot self-sustain through the fares charged, though it *is* helped by its
limitation on distance (basically inside the peripherique) and the compact
habitation of Paris itself.

By comparison, London is girding up to perform the same mischief on the
management/running of the Tube as was done to the national rail system; the
guy who "fixed" the NYC subway system was employed at great expense and
told them how to proceed but his advice was ignored.
Personally I don't think you can run a top class rail system
without taxation subsidies - the historical evidence supports
me there... and it *is* a national resource.

Well, what about other national infrastructure, like phone system?
Pipelines? Airlines? Subsidies are necessary when other competing
alternatives are preferred [cheaper] so pricing makes the venture
non-viable. Much rail passenger traffic falls into this class.
Not freight.

Difficult questions. How much should the govt. subsidize airlines which
are chronically in debt, like e.g. UAL?<shrug>? Where they can
self-sustain that's fine but I see rail as a special case - you have to
look at it long-term wrt things like rights of way and infrastructure
maintenance. The return to trams and inner-city light rail in Europe and
the U.S. is quite a lesson when you consider how short a time since the
infrastructure was ripped out in many cities.
Hmm ... that's an odd way of looking at it. Prosperity in one
place diminishing it in another?

When EU subsidies and tax incentives are biased according to perceived (by
some elite bureaucrat in brussels) needs... yes. There are specific
examples: Siemens had a newish memory fab near Newcastle, England; when the
German reunification happened and E. Germany was nominated as an economic
zone for "stimulation", the Newcastle plant was closed & stripped, Infineon
was created and voila we had new memory fabs with fresh jobs in Dresden...
and fresh unemployment in Newcastle. There are loads of other similar
examples... institutionalized madness.
[Relative prosperity, sure]
But did the growth of America impoverish Europe? England grew
enormously from trade with the US. Does the growth in India and
China impoverish America today? IMHO, cheap imports are a major
factor restraining inflation from the staggering US household,
govt and trade deficits We'll see what happens now that China
has revalued the yuan.

Well the Yuan revaluation is "limited" and AFAICT, looks like a token
gesture for the moment. We'll see. As for cheap imports and inflation vs.
trade deficit.... chicken or egg?
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
I'm wondering why you focus on *my* "AMD Venice"?

'cuz I'm envious! doh :)

It is, however, an example of a high value shipment that
justifies higher-order (more secure) transportation.
A cross-country trip should certainly be faster by rail;
with the right terminal/local facilities, the end result
should be an improvement, as I see it.

I very much doubt it. The standing stock (rail lines) won't
take very high speeds, nor will the rolling stock. Then you
have the inevitable delays at humping yards. I'm very certain
a dual-driver tractor-trailer could beat a std freight.
And likely even a thru-express unless it had _perfect_
scheduling and didn't have to wait for any sections to clear.
You do know the RR safety rules?
The difference in total environmental impact is huge.

I'm not even sure it's that large. RR diesels are _dirty_.
They still burn high-sulfur, and the cheapest oil they can buy.
that many trucks are overloaded. The results in the rate of
deterioration of roads and occurence of mobile road-blocks is
striking... here in NJ at any rate.

I believe most of the overloading is on local end runs where
surveillance is nearly impossible. This would actually _increase_
with increased rail because trucks will still provide the local
end. Unless you are thinking of pushing sidings everywhere,
and getting massive delays for motorists while shunting.
As already stated: on 9/12 the kids of the local gas
station manager, huddled in front of the store entrance,
were babbling/gloating over pics of planes *hitting* the WTC
and the aftermath. When asked, they said they'd been "down
there yesterday in Hoboken at 7.30 *am*", i.e. ~1hr20min
before the first impact. I've explained all the rest -
the chances of this being an opportunistic event are nil IMO.

good Polaroid shots unless you have a Hasselblad with 300+mm lens
on a tripod. Across three miles of water, the 1350' towers would
appear about 5/16" tall on a Polaroid with a normal lens.

I presume you were looked at shots of the WTC2 hit. But from
Hoboken (to the NW), they would have been obscured by WTC1
burning, and WTC2 was hit on the south face, fireballing east.
See if any of these twigs some memory:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/impacts.html
There's more than raster lines - TV photos have a certain image
"quality" which I don't think is hard to determine... unless
they're so bad that the image itself is hard to make out.

Yes, but Polaroids are little better :)
I have to think the govt. is afraid of the possibility of
a backlash by the supposedly non-violent fundamentalist
Muslim population.

I think the govt has more to fear from the non-Muslim
population if they don't "do something"
It *could* also violate some EU human rights regs.:-(

Almost certainly. However, that's more likely to _win_
the govt votes. They won't care.

-- Robert
 
R

Robert Redelmeier

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips George Macdonald said:
Paris never had a "competing company" in the >30years I've
known it

No, I think it was earlier. One short line on the Right Bank.
but I see it as a luxury in terms of the tire/rail system
(mind-boggling cost),

Huh? Montreal and DC chose tire/rail, and I think for good reason.
Better ride, faster starts & stops. I don't think the cost
is excessive. Digging the hole & stations costs the money.
convenience, comfort, frequency and especially fare cost.
Obviously it cannot self-sustain through the fares charged,

I'm not so sure its worse than others. Yes, Paris have very
attractive subway fares. Particularly the multi-ride and
season pass pricing. But I'm not sure this hurts their
total revenue stream. The cost of running a subway is
more-or-less independant of ridership. They're going to be
full at rush hours. The trick is to attract off-peak riders.

This is a revenue maximization exercise, and even with a
monopoly, that isn't with maximum prices. The shape of
the demand curve must be carefully plotted. Usually good
discounts give high volumes, which is very important.
Difficult questions. How much should the govt. subsidize
airlines which are chronically in debt, like UAL? <shrug>?

Much less when there are success stories like SWA!
The return to trams and inner-city light rail in Europe and
the U.S. is quite a lesson when you consider how short a
time since the infrastructure was ripped out in many cities.

I thought most of this was due to earmarked taxes.
When EU subsidies and tax incentives are biased according to
perceived (by some elite bureaucrat in brussels) needs... yes.
There are specific examples: Siemens had a newish memory fab near
Newcastle, England; when the German reunification happened and
E. Germany was nominated as an economic zone for "stimulation",
the Newcastle plant was closed & stripped, Infineon was created
and voila we had new memory fabs with fresh jobs in Dresden...
and fresh unemployment in Newcastle. There are loads of other
similar examples... institutionalized madness.

On a microscale with tax distortions, certainly.
I'm a bit surprised Newcastle didn't match.
This is an ugly game.
Well the Yuan revaluation is "limited"

Yes, they say 2%. But that's going to hit many inflation
components, often by reflection.
and AFAICT, looks like a token gesture for the moment.
We'll see.

Yes on both.
As for cheap imports and inflation vs. trade deficit.... chicken or egg?

Sure. But either way, inflation results.

-- Robert
 
G

George Macdonald

'cuz I'm envious! doh :)

It is, however, an example of a high value shipment that
justifies higher-order (more secure) transportation.

Trucking... high order?... secure? Nothing "falls" off the back?;-)
I very much doubt it. The standing stock (rail lines) won't
take very high speeds, nor will the rolling stock. Then you
have the inevitable delays at humping yards. I'm very certain
a dual-driver tractor-trailer could beat a std freight.
And likely even a thru-express unless it had _perfect_
scheduling and didn't have to wait for any sections to clear.
You do know the RR safety rules?

I didn't say you could do it with current stock/rails and I'd already
mentioned the anachronism of humping yards. It's ultimately a better
investment than the waste on the trucking system.
I'm not even sure it's that large. RR diesels are _dirty_.
They still burn high-sulfur, and the cheapest oil they can buy.

They don't have to be dirty - that's only a contemporary choice. Are you
saying the EPA has no mandate to control locomotive emissions?... seems
odd. The diesel electric is a far more efficient "engine" than the
thousands of smoke belching trucks I see - add in hybrid electrics and even
pure electrics where possible and you can burn way less petro-fuel... if
you've a mind to.
I believe most of the overloading is on local end runs where
surveillance is nearly impossible. This would actually _increase_
with increased rail because trucks will still provide the local
end. Unless you are thinking of pushing sidings everywhere,
and getting massive delays for motorists while shunting.

We used to see regular surveillance around here a few years ago.
good Polaroid shots unless you have a Hasselblad with 300+mm lens
on a tripod. Across three miles of water, the 1350' towers would
appear about 5/16" tall on a Polaroid with a normal lens.

You're reading way more detail than even I have and 3 miles is a bit of an
exaggeration even from the center of Hoboken.
I presume you were looked at shots of the WTC2 hit. But from
Hoboken (to the NW), they would have been obscured by WTC1
burning, and WTC2 was hit on the south face, fireballing east.
See if any of these twigs some memory:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/impacts.html

Look the photos existed the next day - the guys who had them claimed to
have taken them and were gloating over them. That's enough to get me
worried but I'd suggest you argue with them... if you can find them.
Yes, but Polaroids are little better :)

Depends on the "Polaroid" device and even that may have been a mistake - I
did not personally examine the results. For all I know they could have been
done with a cheap digicam and were digital enlargements... easy enough.
I think the govt has more to fear from the non-Muslim
population if they don't "do something"

They've been twiddling their thumbs for long enough. Hey, maybe Enoch
Powell was right after all.:)
 

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