Are there documents available for free which dcoument how to use Windows XP?

[John F. Davis]

Hello

So I am trying to use the windows XP embeddded product and I looking
for documentation which tells in detail how to use it. Where is this
documentation?

It does not seem possible with the provided documentation in the help
folder. It seems that you have to pay for technical support or
purchase a class.

JD

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

There are a bunch of resources to learn about XP Embedded. One of which is
this very newsgroup. Have you visited www.microsoft.com/embedded to see
what white papers/etc. are available online?

 

[John F. Davis]

There are a bunch of resources to learn about XP Embedded. One of which is
this very newsgroup. Have you visited www.microsoft.com/embedded to see
what white papers/etc. are available online?

Yes. I read some highlevel docs there on the differences between
wince and winxp.

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

Yes. I read some highlevel docs there on the differences between
wince and winxp.

Try this link.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/Embedded/xp/techinfo/howto/stepguide/default.asp

 

[Andy Allred [MS]]

It's not clear from your request that you've examined the myriad of White
Papers and Doc/Help Updates on MSDN. The docs in the help folder on your dev
machine are duplicated on MSDN, *but* the docs on MSDN are constantly being
refreshed as clarification on issues is required. Some of the whitepapers
are pretty low level.

An explanation of what exactly you're having trouble with will help as well.

--
Andy

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.
=====================================================

 

[John F. Davis]

It's not clear from your request that you've examined the myriad of White
Papers and Doc/Help Updates on MSDN. The docs in the help folder on your dev
machine are duplicated on MSDN, *but* the docs on MSDN are constantly being
refreshed as clarification on issues is required. Some of the whitepapers
are pretty low level.

Myriad is a good word.

www.tldp.org is a good model M$ could follow. You can search for a
particular subject and find a document which explains how to do an
operation in one document. Sometimes you need to look at multiple
documents, but that is the exception. The other nice thing is that
you can read the documents using a text based browser such as lynx.

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

Myriad is a good word.

www.tldp.org is a good model M$ could follow. You can search for a
particular subject and find a document which explains how to do an
operation in one document. Sometimes you need to look at multiple
documents, but that is the exception. The other nice thing is that
you can read the documents using a text based browser such as lynx.

FYI: Many of us here do not work for MS (note the S) but do have a
favorable opinion of MS. Some of those non Microsoft people are probably
more likely to respond to people who write MS instead of M$. Know your
audience...

 

[John F. Davis]

FYI: Many of us here do not work for MS (note the S) but do have a
favorable opinion of MS. Some of those non Microsoft people are probably
more likely to respond to people who write MS instead of M$. Know your
audience...

I've noticed that they mostly spit out a canned response. Read this
url. Also, if a $ on a ascii interface hurts their feelings, I'm not
sympathetic. BTW, I appreciate your help. If it offends you, I'll
not pester you about it. Also, fwiw, I am not installing the various
service packs in order to install the xp tools on the target box. As
soon as I get in the tools installed I will run TA on it. I really
don't know how someone could install the OS/Service Packs/Windows XP
tools/build and run an image in one hour. You must have a T3 link and
a super computer, not to mention a lot of experience wth windows based
products.

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:44:11 -0800, "Andy Allred [MS]"

It's not clear from your request that you've examined the myriad of
White Papers and Doc/Help Updates on MSDN. The docs in the help
folder on your dev machine are duplicated on MSDN, *but* the docs
on MSDN are constantly being refreshed as clarification on issues
is required. Some of the whitepapers are pretty low level.


Myriad is a good word.

www.tldp.org is a good model M$ could follow. You can search for a
particular subject and find a document which explains how to do an
operation in one document. Sometimes you need to look at multiple
documents, but that is the exception. The other nice thing is that
you can read the documents using a text based browser such as lynx.

FYI: Many of us here do not work for MS (note the S) but do have a
favorable opinion of MS. Some of those non Microsoft people are
probably more likely to respond to people who write MS instead of
M$. Know your audience...

I've noticed that they mostly spit out a canned response. Read this
url. Also, if a $ on a ascii interface hurts their feelings, I'm not
sympathetic. BTW, I appreciate your help. If it offends you, I'll
not pester you about it. Also, fwiw, I am not installing the various
service packs in order to install the xp tools on the target box. As
soon as I get in the tools installed I will run TA on it. I really
don't know how someone could install the OS/Service Packs/Windows XP
tools/build and run an image in one hour. You must have a T3 link and
a super computer, not to mention a lot of experience wth windows based
products.

1. Running TAP. < 1 minute
2. Importing devices.pmq into Component Designer: 10 minutes
3. Importing new custom component from #2 into database < 1 minute.
4. Creating new platform. 2 minutes.
5. Dragging a template + new custom component. < 1 minute
6. Check dependancies cycle. 15 minutes.
7. Build. 10 minutes.
8. Copy. 2 minutes.
9. Boot and run FBA - 20 minutes

Total = 62 minutes.

All estimates are 'rough'.

 

[John F. Davis]

1. Running TAP. < 1 minute
2. Importing devices.pmq into Component Designer: 10 minutes
3. Importing new custom component from #2 into database < 1 minute.
4. Creating new platform. 2 minutes.
5. Dragging a template + new custom component. < 1 minute
6. Check dependancies cycle. 15 minutes.
7. Build. 10 minutes.
8. Copy. 2 minutes.
9. Boot and run FBA - 20 minutes

Total = 62 minutes.

All estimates are 'rough'.

Installing the OS and patches - 1/2 days.
Installing the tools and fix - 1 day.
Finding the document which details these steps - 2 days.
Reinstalling the OS/tools since the initial install will not work - 1
day.
....

Anyhow, I found a video which steps through a build. It appears that
the default method is to use a dual boot setup where your build and
test machine is the same. I'm really not up for reinstalling this
machine tonight. I will do it again tomorrow so that I have a d drive
which I can use to dual boot.

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Why do you want to leave Linux in the first place?
What are you expectations that you will get from XPE?

You cavil at documentation, carp at MS and XP, why?

Regards,
Slobodan

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:44:11 -0800, "Andy Allred [MS]"

It's not clear from your request that you've examined the myriad of
White Papers and Doc/Help Updates on MSDN. The docs in the help
folder on your dev machine are duplicated on MSDN, *but* the docs on
MSDN are constantly being refreshed as clarification on issues is
required. Some of the whitepapers are pretty low level.


Myriad is a good word.

www.tldp.org is a good model M$ could follow. You can search for a
particular subject and find a document which explains how to do an
operation in one document. Sometimes you need to look at multiple
documents, but that is the exception. The other nice thing is that
you can read the documents using a text based browser such as lynx.

FYI: Many of us here do not work for MS (note the S) but do have a
favorable opinion of MS. Some of those non Microsoft people are probably
more likely to respond to people who write MS instead of M$. Know your
audience...

I've noticed that they mostly spit out a canned response. Read this
url. Also, if a $ on a ascii interface hurts their feelings, I'm not
sympathetic. BTW, I appreciate your help. If it offends you, I'll
not pester you about it. Also, fwiw, I am not installing the various
service packs in order to install the xp tools on the target box. As
soon as I get in the tools installed I will run TA on it. I really
don't know how someone could install the OS/Service Packs/Windows XP
tools/build and run an image in one hour. You must have a T3 link and
a super computer, not to mention a lot of experience wth windows based
products.

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

1. Running TAP. < 1 minute

2. Importing devices.pmq into Component Designer: 10 minutes
3. Importing new custom component from #2 into database < 1 minute.
4. Creating new platform. 2 minutes.
5. Dragging a template + new custom component. < 1 minute
6. Check dependancies cycle. 15 minutes.
7. Build. 10 minutes.
8. Copy. 2 minutes.
9. Boot and run FBA - 20 minutes

Total = 62 minutes.

All estimates are 'rough'.

On my development platform with XPE build that is less that 64 MB (When
repositories are cached is in memory)

Step:
6. 1<minute
7-8. 2<minute
9. ~3 Min


- Gigabit network.
- Device and dev machine Intel 875 Chipset, P4-2400 MHZ HTT with dual
channel memory 2x400 MHz.


Regards,
Slobodan

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

Installing the OS and patches - 1/2 days.
Installing the tools and fix - 1 day.
Finding the document which details these steps - 2 days.
Reinstalling the OS/tools since the initial install will not work - 1
day.
...

Anyhow, I found a video which steps through a build. It appears that
the default method is to use a dual boot setup where your build and
test machine is the same. I'm really not up for reinstalling this
machine tonight. I will do it again tomorrow so that I have a d drive
which I can use to dual boot.

I wasn't counting the time it takes to have a windows dev machine
configured. I also didn't count the time it takes to build the computer
itself (joke).

Good luck with your build. Let me know if you have further questions.

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

On my development platform with XPE build that is less that 64 MB
(When repositories are cached is in memory)

Step:
6. 1<minute
7-8. 2<minute
9. ~3 Min


- Gigabit network.
- Device and dev machine Intel 875 Chipset, P4-2400 MHZ HTT with dual
channel memory 2x400 MHz.


Regards,
Slobodan

Mine is just a simple brain-dead build (250 meg) for demo purposes running
on a slow/ancient laptop. Further evidence that an hour is PLENTY of time
to get something simple working with XPE.

 

[John F. Davis]

Why do you want to leave Linux in the first place?

I didn't know I entered Linux much less left it.

What are you expectations that you will get from XPE?

I'm using it to see its capabilities.

You cavil at documentation, carp at MS and XP, why?

Why ask why? Would my opinion change yours?

Regards,
Slobodan

John F. Davis wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:44:11 -0800, "Andy Allred [MS]"

It's not clear from your request that you've examined the myriad of
White Papers and Doc/Help Updates on MSDN. The docs in the help
folder on your dev machine are duplicated on MSDN, *but* the docs on
MSDN are constantly being refreshed as clarification on issues is
required. Some of the whitepapers are pretty low level.


Myriad is a good word.

www.tldp.org is a good model M$ could follow. You can search for a
particular subject and find a document which explains how to do an
operation in one document. Sometimes you need to look at multiple
documents, but that is the exception. The other nice thing is that
you can read the documents using a text based browser such as lynx.

FYI: Many of us here do not work for MS (note the S) but do have a
favorable opinion of MS. Some of those non Microsoft people are probably
more likely to respond to people who write MS instead of M$. Know your
audience...

I've noticed that they mostly spit out a canned response. Read this
url. Also, if a $ on a ascii interface hurts their feelings, I'm not
sympathetic. BTW, I appreciate your help. If it offends you, I'll
not pester you about it. Also, fwiw, I am not installing the various
service packs in order to install the xp tools on the target box. As
soon as I get in the tools installed I will run TA on it. I really
don't know how someone could install the OS/Service Packs/Windows XP
tools/build and run an image in one hour. You must have a T3 link and
a super computer, not to mention a lot of experience wth windows based
products.

An explanation of what exactly you're having trouble with will help
as well.

 

[John F. Davis]

I wasn't counting the time it takes to have a windows dev machine
configured. I also didn't count the time it takes to build the computer
itself (joke).

Good luck with your build. Let me know if you have further questions.

I used the TA output as an input to the component designer. Then I
imported the result into a new project in Target Designer. I did this
according to this MS video "Tutorial: Building a Windows XP Embedded
Device". I did not do as the video did where he changed the c drive
to d drive. I built the image copied it to the target machine and
rebooted it. It worked better that the first version I built in that
it got past the black and white bar graph window where it said booting
windows. After it showed that window though, it went to a blue screen
and said BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG_INFO. So, I figured that c: to d: thing
the guy did in the video probably matters even though I am on a
different machine. As such, I changed the setting to be d:, rebuilt
the image, deleted the existing files on my d drive on my target
machine, copied in the new image and rebooted. Same error.
BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG_INFO. At this point the problem is either the
NTLOADER thing you mentioned or its just the problem with copying the
files to the target machine. For instance, i can not delete all the
files in the d: drive. There are sharing violations on the hidden
directories. The other possible problem is the NTLOADER thing. In
the video, the guy is using windows XP as his development box. I am
using win2k and its probably incompatible. Could this be the problem?
I'll reinstall/repartition this computer tomorrow so that I can be
closer in spec wth the standar setup.

 

[Gordon Smith \(eMVP\)]

I used the TA output as an input to the component designer. Then I
imported the result into a new project in Target Designer. I did this
according to this MS video "Tutorial: Building a Windows XP Embedded
Device". I did not do as the video did where he changed the c drive
to d drive. I built the image copied it to the target machine and
rebooted it. It worked better that the first version I built in that
it got past the black and white bar graph window where it said booting
windows. After it showed that window though, it went to a blue screen
and said BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG_INFO. So, I figured that c: to d: thing
the guy did in the video probably matters even though I am on a
different machine. As such, I changed the setting to be d:, rebuilt
the image, deleted the existing files on my d drive on my target
machine, copied in the new image and rebooted. Same error.
BAD_SYSTEM_CONFIG_INFO. At this point the problem is either the
NTLOADER thing you mentioned or its just the problem with copying the
files to the target machine. For instance, i can not delete all the
files in the d: drive. There are sharing violations on the hidden
directories. The other possible problem is the NTLOADER thing. In
the video, the guy is using windows XP as his development box. I am
using win2k and its probably incompatible. Could this be the problem?
I'll reinstall/repartition this computer tomorrow so that I can be
closer in spec wth the standar setup.

Copy NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from XP (you can find them in the repositories
if need be) onto your Win2k system. Win2k will work with the newer
versions.

This newsgroup is a great resource for developing/debugging problems,
however most newsreaders do an awful job at exposing the true history of the
group. You can use google to search this newsgroup...

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=microsoft.public.windowsxp.embedded

 

[John F. Davis]

Slobodan,

Sorry to get mean with you.

Today after work when I got home, I talked to the kids,
talked to the wife, petted the dog, enjoyed the comfort of
my home, etc. The change in pace gave me time to reflect
and I realized I was letting my frustration get to me. As
such, I was arguing with you. Sorry.

I'm going to try Gordon's tip tomorrow about upgrading my
boot loader. I think that will help. This week, my
frustration level has been high and I was taking it out on
you.


My apologies,

JD

 

[Slobodan Brcin]

Thanks,

1. You must relax while working with XPE.
2. You will have small or huge problems all the way. But almost always they
can be solved one way or the other.
3. There is no concise manual how you should do the things. Since there are
countless scenarios and utilities that can be used to accomplish specific
tasks.
4. Before you start you should choose your objective to evaluate XPE
correctly.
- You can use only kernel mode builds less than 8 MB that probably can be
booted from your dev machine without doing FBA.
- Minlogon builds (you will need to do programming all the time to make your
environment)
- Winlogon for standard windows functions and look.

When you do what Gordon suggested, it will move you closer to working XPE,
but you will most likely see BSOD few more times.

After you successfully boot your first XPE.
Read all answers you got, maybe it will be clearer to you what we all said.

Regards,
Slobodan