Apparently you cant install in certain ways

[Diamontina Cocktail]

You cant upgrade from XP Pro to Vista below a certain level for example.
Why?

I caught the post below in another newsgroup. Anyone got any comments?




1/ You cannot upgrade from WinXP Pro to either Vista Basic Home Edition or
Vista Premium Home Edition


2/ You can only upgrade if you have WINXP with SP2 installed and activated
on your computer. No more formatting and inserting disc to show you have
the previous system. So if your hard drive dies and you have to reinstall
Vista you have to install XP ( and update it to SP2 ) first.


3/ You cannot then install your XP Pro on another computer ( well you can
but you wont be able to activate it )


4/ In the USA ( and Canada ) if you purchase one copy you can then under the
"family" plan you can purchase 2 more copies for US$50 each. But Microsoft
doesnt really give a stuff about anything outside of Nth America


Just a couple of little surprises for people thinking about going the Vista
route

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Such "downgrades" are not allowed because there is a loss of functionality
in XP Pro that Vista HB or HP does not include. In such cases a custom
install is required and the upgrade option is diabled by Setup.

This is not new to Vista. It is the same reason you cannot upgrade from
Windows 2000 to XP Home but must do a clean install of Home, providing the
Win2k cd when requested.

This does not mean that you cannot use a Vista upgrade edition to install
VHB or VHP on a computer running XP Pro. It just means that you cannot
upgrade the bits to do it and a custom install is required.

 

[Guest]

I am not going to believe much on the upgrade paths until the retail version
hits the shelves there are just too many conflicting reports on what you can
and can not do with vista upgrade. Once those come out we will see what you
can and can not do.

 

[Rick Rogers]

Hi,

1) Yep, just like XP Home would not upgrade NT4 or 2000. This is not
unusual, nor is it a change from previous policies.

2) I'm not certain you have to have SP2 installed, but you do need to be
activated. Yes, you can no longer perform a clean install with an upgrade
disk by showing it a copy of a CD, this is because too often upgrades disks
were shown illegitimate copies. All x86 upgrade disks must be started from
within the existing OS to be upgraded, and this ensures that the existing OS
is legit since it will be activated.

3) You never could with an upgrade. Part of the price break is that you are
incorporating a license you already own into the upgrade. If you want two
installs, you need two full licenses.

4) Yes, purchase Ultimate and get two copies of Home premium for an extra
$50 each. It's not available outside of the US most likely because any offer
has to be in compliance with the laws of the country in which it's sold.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Rick Rogers]

Hi,

Upgrade matrix:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

 

[Ken]

Hi,

1) Yep, just like XP Home would not upgrade NT4 or 2000. This is not
unusual, nor is it a change from previous policies.

2) I'm not certain you have to have SP2 installed, but you do need to be
activated. Yes, you can no longer perform a clean install with an upgrade
disk by showing it a copy of a CD, this is because too often upgrades
disks were shown illegitimate copies. All x86 upgrade disks must be
started from within the existing OS to be upgraded, and this ensures that
the existing OS is legit since it will be activated.

What happens when later you wanted to re install vista upgrade after you
cant activated xp anymore because of the previous vista install. Can you
just re install it from within vista since its activated and choose either
upgrade or custom install?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

No. You will have to reinstall the legacy OS and then reinstall Vista
again.

 

[Ken]

Yes but how can you do it if you cant activate it anymore? Do i just use
win2000 or something because of no activation?

Ken

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Who says you can't activate it anymore? I know that product keys can be
cancelled but I doubt that applies here because MS is not trying to make
things impossible for you. You may get a message that the pk is in use and
instructions to call the activations center, but I doubt it. The activation
center may want to verify that you are not attempting to reinstall out of
compliance, but I don't see them not letting you reconstruct the same system
that the legacy Windows was on when you upgraded to Vista. If you are
uncertain then simply wait until after Jan 30 when we have reports from
users on these matters.

 

[Ken]

Ok thanks. The reason i ask was because i thought the original vista upgrade
install de activates xp so you cant use it anymore. So when you want to go
and re install vista later on you have to reinstall xp and have it activated
again. But i guess ringing up and explaining what you want to do they may be
will let you re activate again.

Ken

 

[Ken]

lol sorry for the questions but heres another 1, Can i use an oem xp pro
activated install to upgrade to vista retail.

Ken

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There has been speculation here to that effect but no reliable confirmation.
No one has had an upgrade edition product key yet (outside of MS) so we just
don't know. I am sure MS has anticipated this kind of problem.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Yes. That has always been supported in Windows.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Such "downgrades" are not allowed because there is a loss of functionality
in XP Pro that Vista HB or HP does not include. In such cases a custom
install is required and the upgrade option is diabled by Setup.

This is not new to Vista. It is the same reason you cannot upgrade from
Windows 2000 to XP Home but must do a clean install of Home, providing the
Win2k cd when requested.

This does not mean that you cannot use a Vista upgrade edition to install
VHB or VHP on a computer running XP Pro. It just means that you cannot
upgrade the bits to do it and a custom install is required.

OK but the point then is that the higher grade ones - and forgive me here
but I don't know the different level names within Vista so please bear with
me - cost a heck of a lot more. Here in Australia for example, for the last
18 months, possibly more, XP Pro upgrade has been exceedingly cheap compared
to when XP first came out or even compared with the first 3 years of XP. I
had wondered why XP Pro upgrade has ended up being so cheap as to make
putting XP Home on your machine an option not worth considering. Was this
the answer? Eg, that ultimately Microsoft would end up making you pay for it
by higher costing in Vista?

Please don't take that the wrong way. I have no doubt that some of you will
get upset but the truth of the situation is, whether Microsoft like it or
not, I wont be - possibly am not right now - the only person thinking that.
It does seem to be logical even if, in the end, it isn't the case. So,
assuming, as is more than likely the case, they didn't do it this way on
purpose, given that Microsoft is having all sorts of problems across the
globe with various Governments and their rulings, why would they set
themselves up once more to look like they were just profiteering?

I thought that, perhaps, the post was wrong in the other newsgroup, don't
know enough about Vista to be sure as yet and thought I would be soundly
corrected in here which would be all useful info if that was the case. It
appears the original post wasn't wrong which, though I hate to admit it,
leaves me thinking bad thoughts about the upgrade path, the cost I will now
have to pay and if this actually IS the way it was always meant to be. Eg,
cheap XP Pro leading to higher priced Vista.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Hi,

1) Yep, just like XP Home would not upgrade NT4 or 2000. This is not
unusual, nor is it a change from previous policies.

2) I'm not certain you have to have SP2 installed, but you do need to be
activated. Yes, you can no longer perform a clean install with an upgrade
disk by showing it a copy of a CD, this is because too often upgrades
disks were shown illegitimate copies. All x86 upgrade disks must be
started from within the existing OS to be upgraded, and this ensures that
the existing OS is legit since it will be activated.

I find point 2 amazing. What's to stop someone installing an XP and not
activating it - one that they borrowed - and then installing a legally
bought Vista upgrade after that? Eg, the XP was a legal one if not legally
obtained so isnt on the list of registration keys that are stopped from
activation but the XP itself is just put in and Vista upgrade immediately
applied.

3) You never could with an upgrade. Part of the price break is that you
are incorporating a license you already own into the upgrade. If you want
two installs, you need two full licenses.

Not quite right. I have, legally, XP Pro upgrade on this computer and no
other. However, should I want to, I could install it on another and activate
it, too. I think you know that to be the case. I happen to work in the
industry so I dont do that sort of thing, apart from what I think
personally, because there is no profit in being hunted down by Microsoft.

4) Yes, purchase Ultimate and get two copies of Home premium for an extra
$50 each. It's not available outside of the US most likely because any
offer has to be in compliance with the laws of the country in which it's
sold.

Point 4 also stinks. I realise that other countries, such as Australia, are
tiny markets but the company is ATTEMPTING to retain its market share across
the globe. You would think that offering the same in every country for the
US dollar equivalent the same as is offered in USA would be one way of
legally spreading the OS and of course having the Govts of those countries
think less harshly about the company than they do now.

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

What happens when later you wanted to re install vista upgrade after you
cant activated xp anymore because of the previous vista install. Can you
just re install it from within vista since its activated and choose either
upgrade or custom install?

Here's a better question.

I bought, back in around 1999 at the start of the year, a legal 98SE
upgrade. I only had 95 on the computer I had back then and decided to
upgrade. So I put it on that computer. Time goes by and W2K comes out but
isn't used by the majority of where my money is coming in so I don't see the
point in upgrading so quickly. XP comes out in Home flavour and I see that
this is different and the majority of my money will eventually be coming
from such users so the day after it comes out, I get a home upgrade version
and just upgrade the 98SE I had. More time goes by and the motherboard dies
and I take this excuse to buy all the parts I need to build new from ground
up, put the now XP Home on the new computer by putting the disks in there
and doing a repair install and driver install and then I am left with a
valid 98SE not being used so I ring Microsoft Australia and ask whomever
(who could have been in any part of the world) if I can put this 98SE I own
on another machine even though I knew they couldn't possibly tell. They said
they couldn't see any problem so I put 98SE on that other machine as I had a
valid licence for it and the new machine had the XP on it.

So, now we come to the question - I have a valid XP Pro upgrade (from Home)
on this computer. Why would I not be allowed to use its registration key on
another computer I would be able to build from the ground up and also the
Vista one on this computer? Eg, if Microsoft are going to invalidate my XP
Pro key then they are actually making something I bought unfit for the
purpose for which it was bought which is actually against the law in many
countries. I don't believe that in any Windows OS EULA prior to Vista, I
actually clicked that I agreed that they could do this to me in the future -
that is to take from me something I owned without paying for it - so where
do they get the right to do this from?

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

So in effect "forget clean install ever again" if you use an upgrade
version?

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

However, why CANT you use that XP you paid for any longer? Are Microsoft
giving you the money back that you paid for it or are you supposed to use
the disk as a coffee coaster and they forgot to tell you that?

Eg, who took your money from you when you legally bought XP and who is going
to give it back now it is invalid because of Vista install?

 

[Diamontina Cocktail]

Well, I hope you are right. I hope I am wrong when I say I believe that
invalidation of existing XP key, with a Vista upgrade, means you cant ever
install that XP again on any other machine and use it past the 30 day
activation. If they do that to people they are forcing them to actively
think about piracy because all that would achieve is to disadvantage the
honest. The pirates already KNOW how to get around it.

 

[Rick Rogers]

It's not invalid, it (the license for XP) has become part of the Vista
upgrade. If you want to have an install of both, you need a full license for
both. One reason an upgrade is cheaper is that it incorporates your existing
Windows license into it.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org