Anybody know of a "try before you buy"

J

johns

I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
$55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.

johns
 
M

Mark C.

johns said:
I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
$55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
Click to expand...

The 9800 Pro is no slouch of a card. To see great improvement
you'd need to upgrade to an X800 at a minimum, or preferably
an X850/X1800/X1900 etc.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Nvidia's 6800's though.
It just wasn't the proper upgrade for you, coming from an already
great card. I guarantee you'd feel differently about Nvidia if you
tried a 7800GT :)

Also, I agree with you 100% about Tom's Hardware. He and his
staff push whatever company is buying them the most free lunches
and product, so much of what's on his site is very misleading.
 
E

Ed Forsythe

Not nearly as misleading as "...NVIDIA 6800 is a POS." I'll soon be
upgrading my 9800PRO to a 6800 or 7800GS because everything I have read
indicates either will be a huge improvement. The 9800PRO was a great card
but it's a bit long in the tooth and it surely can't run close to either of
the nVidia cards. However, it is possible that all the tests, benchmarks,
etc. I have accessed have been mistaken. You may save me from an expensive
mistake if you would post some of the info upon which you base your opinion.
 
M

Mark C.

Ed Forsythe said:
Not nearly as misleading as "...NVIDIA 6800 is a POS." I'll soon be
upgrading my 9800PRO to a 6800 or 7800GS because everything I have read
indicates either will be a huge improvement. The 9800PRO was a great card
but it's a bit long in the tooth and it surely can't run close to either of
the nVidia cards. However, it is possible that all the tests, benchmarks,
etc. I have accessed have been mistaken. You may save me from an expensive
mistake if you would post some of the info upon which you base your opinion.
Click to expand...

The peak bandwidth of a stock 6800 (not GT/Ultra/GS, which is the
card the OP was talking about) is 22.4GB/s, while the 9800 Pro's is
21.8GB/s.

The 9800 Pro has a much faster core (380MHz vs. 325) and only
slightly slower memory (680MHz vs. 700).

The 6800 does have 12 pixel pipelines instead of the 9800's 8, which
accounts for its better pixel fillrate. Still, someone upgrading from one
to the other probably wouldn't see enough difference to justify the cost
of a 6800.
 
J

johns

The nVidia driver enables HDR and SM3.0 out of nowhere, and
for no reason at all. That will overwhelm any 6800 on the market
and will generate crashes and artifacts in most games .. esp
Far Cry. The drivers are a joke. Without Coolbits and Rivatuner
to help compensate, most games require patching to run on
an nVidia card. Also, nVidia is in a price and naming war with
ATI, and they are bringing crippled cards on the market, and
you don't know what you are getting when you buy one until
you have paid for it, and discover the severe limitations ..
like no power connector, and you put in in a mobo without
the 24 pin psupply connector that feeds power to the card.
This kind of crap is just inexcusable. And then when you
finally get a game working ... you will see clearly that the
ATI cards show a lot more dynamic graphics on the screen.
I saw that all over Far Cry ... flickering fire lights ... none
with the nVidia cards. High detail in walls and ground ??
Again none of that with the nVidia cards. AND YET, the
nVidia cards benched much higher than my 9800 in tests
like 3DMark2100. Just look like shit, is all ... jagged lines
.... AA won't run on an nVidia card because it is incompatible
with HDR which will auto start if you are not careful.

johns
 
S

Spidious

I just went from a eVGA 6600Gt (no problems with it) to a EVGA 7800GS CO.
And boy was there a big difference ! If you have AGP the new 7800GS CO are
the cards to get. The graphics are so amazing, that I am seeing things on
games I did not even know where there before !
 
E

Ed Forsythe

Hi Mark,
This is just one of the 6800GS cards I'm considering:
BFG 6800GS Core = 370MHz (excellent possibility of clocking to 400+)
Memory = 1050MHz (Should clock to 1200+)
Bandwidth = 33.6 GB/s
Dual RamDac 400MHz

9800Pro (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
3DMark 03 5783 10,000 11,400
3DMark 05 2695 4321 5393
3DMark 06 680 1900+? 2717
The 6800 & 7800GS mark are from Guru of 3D and they are about the same as
other sites I've checked. BTW, My 9800 PRO/128 memory speed is 338MHz.

Hmm - Although the 6800GS would be a significant improvement, it looks as
though I'm going to spend the extra $100 and go for the *7800GS* @$299 :)
That should hold me comfortably for at least a year. Then I'll do a
complete upgrade - PCIX MB, CPU, DDR2 RAM, PCIX Vid card. All the rest of
my stuff is OK to start with after that I'll be able to upgrade
incrementally. Thanks for leading me to more research ;-)
 
E

Ed Forsythe

Glad you said that Spidious, 'cause that's where I'm going. BTW, I.ve had
several conversations with eVGA tech support and I've been impressed - a
bunch of nice guys and they're open 24/7! Now that I've made my card
decision I'm inclined to favor eVGA slightly over XFX and BFG. Sure would
like to hear from others.
 
M

Mark C.

johns said:
The nVidia driver enables HDR and SM3.0 out of nowhere, and
for no reason at all. That will overwhelm any 6800 on the market
and will generate crashes and artifacts in most games .. esp
Far Cry. The drivers are a joke.
Click to expand...

If NV's drivers are a joke, ATI's are downright hysterical.
 
S

Spidious

I ran a few test with some of my different video cards I have owed
stock/overclocked
These test were run with all other background programs running (40)

6800 9800XT 6600XT
7800GS CO
3D 2001 6584/7805 12205 12823 15871
3D 2003 1918/2356 3978/4078 8315 12189
3D 2005 1150 2020 3336
5886
 
S

Spidious

6800 9800XT 6600XT 7800GS CO

3D 2001 6584/7805 12205 12823 15871
3D 2003 1918/2356 3978/4078 8315 12189
3D 2005 1150 2020 3336 5886
 
E

Ed Forsythe

Nope, Front door I get this immeditely. Backdoor I get it after I click on
the "I Agree" ??:

Miraserver Error: There has been an invalid database query. MySQL said:
Can't connect to MySQL server on 'deebee' (4)

Query:
SELECT name,id,short,parentlist FROM sections WHERE status=1 AND parent=0
ORDER BY name
 

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