Anybody here use Linux?

[Jim Strand]

If I ask this question at a Linux ng, they'll say XP sucks. If I ask at an
XP ng, they'll say Linux sucks.

From what I've read Mandrake is the best for desktop apps and for newbies
(like me). I've been using windows since 3.11(currently XP home) and was
wondering if anybody here uses Linux, and how does it compare to XP?

After watching this thread grow it seems a perfect time to return to
the original subject, "how does it compare to XP?"

We all have opinions based upon our wishes and how well something
meets them. Hence the wide variety of responses. The best overall
recommendation is to evaluate for yourself.

Do you have access to an older unused computer? Say a Pentium II or
III, perhaps a K6-2 series something? If so verify any important data
on it has been transferred off then wipe it out and reformat. This
was you can have the entire drive dedicated to you Linux experiment.

If you only have one computer available but have a second hard drive
handy use that for Linux. That way you'll know the two are separated.

I started with the former, my old K6-2 450 system. My distribution
system of choice was Mandrake primarily because of the ease of
downloading and preparing the installation CD's. As I became more
familiar with Linux I upgraded to a Athlon XP box nearly identical to
my Windows one. This made my personal speed comparisons easier to
make as the playing field was more even.

So now I have two fully functional systems at home. Usage splits
about 65% Linux to 35% XP. Each has their own merits. For example
this is being written on the XP using Agent which I find superior to
the others. Other applications like Quicken and TurboTax as well.
(In fairness there is a Linux application that allows you to run
Windows programs, but I haven't figured out how to start it yet) Yet
for CD burning, office applications, and web browsing I prefer to
utilize the Linux machine.

In summary just try it and decide for yourself. You'll find other
newsgroups for the Linux distributions with people willing to help
guide you along. Then as time goes by check back here and let us
learn of your experience.

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

After watching this thread grow it seems a perfect time to return to
the original subject, "how does it compare to XP?"

GUI:

KDE is both easier to use and far more customizable than the Windows GUI.
You have to add a 3rd party app like WindowsBlinds to get the customization
that KDE provides, get in many ways, you still get less control than KDE
gives you. Talk about a resource hog...Windowsblinds will tax your
machine's resources.

Gnome is the favorit GUI for the enterprise desktop, mainly because
administrators can restrict your customization attempts more easily.
There's a war between the Gnome camp and the KDE kamp, but it's very usable
and very customizable. The best thing about Gnome is that there are
multiple window managers that it can use. It comes with Metacity, but you
can use Sawfish, Enlightenment, and others instead. It's hard to explain,
but they make a big difference in the GUI experience for Gnome.

That's one of the stregths of Linux. People argue that it's not consistent,
but it's easily customized to your liking. There are still other
environments you can be in like IceWM, AfterStep, etc. that are less
robust, but tax your resources much less. Many like their stripped down
perfromance better.

Organization:

Without a doubt, Linux is far more organized. Everthing the user does is
based on the /home directory. When a user installs software for his use
(apps that allow it), it's installed in the /home directory, unaffecting
the rest of the system. He does not have access to the other directories in
the system. Only the root user has access - therefore your kids can't screw
your computer up. The rest of the system is divided into multiple folders
for various reasons. At first they seem crazy, but there there for a
reason. For instance, /opt is for KDE, Gnome, and other non-essential stuff
that's sytem wide. Everything else has it's own place, separately.

Configuration settings:

A long time ago, MS decided that .inf files were a bad thing. They developed
a crude central database they called the Registry. This was the worst idea
they ever came up with. Not only is it cryptic, it's poorly organized and
make a mistake, your computer will lock up.

No such problem under Linux. Every app, every system component has a config
or .rc file. They are located where the component is or in the home
directory of the user. Screw up, delete the file and it'll get rebuilt for
you automatically. You then reconfigure and go on. And the files are almost
plain english! Here's an excerpt of the X86Config file:

Section "InputDevice"
Driver "mouse"
Identifier "Mouse[1]"
Option "ButtonNumber" "2"
Option "Device" "/dev/mouse"
Option "Name" "Autodetection"
Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"
Option "Vendor" "Sysp"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Not hard to decipher is it? Try looking in your registry...

Installation:

With Windows, you first install the OS, which takes about an hour. Then you
have to install 3rd party drivers. The time can vary based on how many you
have to install and how much headache the installation is. Some of your
hardware may still be listed in your Device Manager as unknown and it'll
rack your brain trying to figure it out. Then, you have to install all of
your software. That can take some time.

With Linux, you install everything at once. You pick out your packages, the
installer autodetects your hardware for the most part, and everything is
finished in about and hour. You may still have to install 3rd party drivers
like nVidia or Ati drivers to get full use of 3D video (some distros you
don't). However, it's far less painfull. Now, if you have the very latest
bleeding edge hardware, You might have to wait 6 months to a year for it to
be supported in Linux. nVidia supports their latest video cards with their
drivers, so video is not a problem if you use one of their cards. Ati has
been slightly behind.

This could get rather lengthy, but I'll stop there. Linus definitely has
many advantages as an OS over Windows. The single biggest problem to me, is
the lack of polish many of the apps have compared to Windows conterparts.
However, I paid $79 for everything. I've paid $100+ for a single app in
Windows. If you're willing to do a little more work installing and
configuring, there are free versions of Linux out there as well.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
10:02am up 9 days 0:37, 2 users, load average: 0.20, 0.20, 0.14

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...

 

[Terry Parker]

In summary just try it and decide for yourself. You'll find other
newsgroups for the Linux distributions with people willing to help
guide you along. Then as time goes by check back here and let us
learn of your experience.

I've made the transition to Linux (Mandrake distribution) and I'm really
pleased.


On the negative side of Linux:

1. A lot of highly polished programs are only available for windows.

2. It took awhile to get get used to learning how Linux does things. I had
to read a few How-to books to get my bearings. I been using MS since DOS
2.11 so I had been thoroughly indoctrinated in the MS way of doing things.


On the positive side of Linux:

1. It's a very secure operating system. It was built from the ground up to
be secure.

2. More and more name-brand programs are becoming available on a daily
basis. There are many, many highly polished programs that are completely
free!

3. I no longer support a monopoly and everything it represents

4. As I learn more, I can customize the user interface from mild to wild.

5. There are a great group of people in the Linux newgroups. Go in with
with an open mind and they will do their level best to help you.

6. It can run very well on modest hardware.


Terry

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

I've made the transition to Linux (Mandrake distribution) and I'm really
pleased.


On the negative side of Linux:

1. A lot of highly polished programs are only available for windows.

2. It took awhile to get get used to learning how Linux does things. I
had
to read a few How-to books to get my bearings. I been using MS since DOS
2.11 so I had been thoroughly indoctrinated in the MS way of doing things.


On the positive side of Linux:

1. It's a very secure operating system. It was built from the ground up
to be secure.

2. More and more name-brand programs are becoming available on a daily
basis. There are many, many highly polished programs that are completely
free!

3. I no longer support a monopoly and everything it represents

4. As I learn more, I can customize the user interface from mild to wild.

5. There are a great group of people in the Linux newgroups. Go in with
with an open mind and they will do their level best to help you.

6. It can run very well on modest hardware.

Let's not forget the wonderful POSIX threads. You can have lots of stuff
going on, unless it needs disk access, and your computer won't slow down
one bit. At some point you will tax out the cpu, but it sure does
multitasking quite a bit better than Windows.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
12:41am up 11 days 15:17, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.23, 0.19

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

Yeah right! I had the pleasure of installing the Linux Nvidia drivers to
Mandrake 9.2 tonight.

What a pain in the ass, I decided to remove Linux altogether from my
system, guess what, it's like a virus, harder than hell to remove.

It has you jumping thru hoops for what should be an easy task.

Linux sux big time.

I just had to come back to this one.

Tonight, I rebooted my Linux machine to run a LiveCD version of Mandrake
called PCLinuxOS. Something happened that caused my graphics system to not
work properly when I went back to SuSE Linux. From the command prompt,
which is all I had to work with because of the graphics problem, I cd'd to
the downloads directory where the nVidia installation file was located,
typed "sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-4496-pkg2.run" and reinstalled the nVidia
driver. It removed my old one, recompiled a new module for the kernel, and
installed a fresh working driver without any drama what-so-ever. It was a
snap. Now, I'm back working in SuSE Linux and everything is fine. How in
the world you had difficulty in doing this to install it in your Mandrake
installation, I'll never figure out.

BTW, after running Mandrake on the CD, which I know is not the complete
Mandrake installation, I now know why I'm using SuSE. Just setting up the
video alone was a headache in Mandrake. I couldn't find a way to adjust my
video refresh rate anywhere in the Mandrake Control Center. I'd have to
hack the X86Config-4 file. That's not that big of a deal, but not as easy
as SaX2 in SuSE. Maybe it was crippled due to running from a Knoppix type
of deal, but I don't think it was. If they had OpenOffice running, they can
fit the whole Mandrake Control Center in there. YaST's module SaX2 makes it
a snap. You can adjust your frequency in 1 MHz increments until you get
artifacts and you can back off until they're gone. Then, you'll have the
highest possible refresh rate it can handle and go easy on your eyes and
avoid headaches.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
11:43pm up 0:15, 2 users, load average: 0.09, 0.22, 0.27

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...

 

[Stacey]

I just had to come back to this one.

Tonight, I rebooted my Linux machine to run a LiveCD version of Mandrake
called PCLinuxOS. Something happened that caused my graphics system to not
work properly when I went back to SuSE Linux. From the command prompt,
which is all I had to work with because of the graphics problem, I cd'd to
the downloads directory where the nVidia installation file was located,
typed "sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-4496-pkg2.run" and reinstalled the nVidia
driver. It removed my old one, recompiled a new module for the kernel, and
installed a fresh working driver without any drama what-so-ever. It was a
snap. Now, I'm back working in SuSE Linux and everything is fine. How in
the world you had difficulty in doing this to install it in your Mandrake
installation, I'll never figure out.

Impatience and ignorance. People run into MUCH larger problems with windows
but they are familiar with working in that environment. New linux users run
into one problem, -it's not like windows- and they post something like this
guy did. He probably didn't know to type the "sh" part and gave up.

 

[Ruel Smith (Big Daddy)]

Impatience and ignorance. People run into MUCH larger problems with
windows but they are familiar with working in that environment. New linux
users run into one problem, -it's not like windows- and they post
something like this guy did. He probably didn't know to type the "sh" part
and gave up.

You know, I keep swearing that if someone spent 6 months of their computing
time using Linux, and they really tried to learn what they were doing,
they'd be preaching the Linux gospel. Yes, one has to almost re-learn using
a computer because it's a completely different system. It's like sitting
down in front of a Sun Solaris workstation and getting acquainted. It's
totally different. However, once you get accustomed to it, you'll wonder
why Windows isn't more Linux/Unix-like. At least Apple was paying attention
and used BSD as a core. However, they really dumbed it down a bit making it
more Mac-like.



--
Big Daddy Ruel Smith

My SuSE Linux machine uptime:
1:52pm up 14:23, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.06, 0.08

My Windows XP machine uptime:
Something less...

 

[Stacey]

Ruel Smith (Big Daddy) wrote:

You know, I keep swearing that if someone spent 6 months of their
computing time using Linux, and they really tried to learn what they were
doing, they'd be preaching the Linux gospel.

Yep but unfortunatly people in general are way to lazy be bothered.

 

[ToolPackinMama]

French kiss from Grenoble (France)

Over here! ::waving::

IMHO, US people who are "anti-French" over the scandalous, controversial
IRAQ war are jingoistic idiots, or bullies looking for any frail excuse
to act like thugs, or both, and in any case they are beneath contempt.
FWIW, plenty of US people were against the whole IRAQ thing all along,
and still are - and I'm one of them.

I am a lifelong Democrat, NOT A TRAITOR, thank you. I did not vote for
Bush, and I certainly will not vote for him this time either. IMHO Bush
and his administration are traitors and worse to their friends the
French, and particularly to the citizens of the US, for the ways they
attacked us all right here at home - gutting our Bill Of Rights, robbing
veterans of their benefits, etc.

I use both Windows XP and Linux, and BTW I prefer SuSE 9.0. I don't
care what country it's from. To me that is completely immaterial.

IMHO, anybody who has to be so unreasonably proud about their country,
right or wrong, probably has nothing else in their lives worth
mentioning that they are proud about. IMHO only a pathetically frail
ego needs to swaddle themselves in their nation's flag like it's a big
bandage. They seem to think that winding it tight enough will hold them
upright, and that that's as good as having a spine, but they are
mistaken.

 

[Roy Coorne]

ToolPackinMama wrote:

....

I use both Windows XP and Linux, and BTW I prefer SuSE 9.0. I don't
care what country it's from. ...

SuSE is a German/US-American distribution of Linux, a global OS with
_a_ Finnish origin, isn't it, and of some commercial software.

r c