AMD's Athlon64 or Intel's P4?

[ANTant]

Hello. I am planning to upgrade my computer system in a few weeks. I am
going to replace its motherboard, CPU, and memory. You can view my
current primary/gaming system on
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt ...

I am planning to keep all my old parts except sound card, RAM, CPU, and
motherboard. Now, the question is which CPU and which motherboard (was
an ASUS person in the past) do I want to get. From brief researches from
reading benchmarks, AMD Athlon64 seems like a good choice for a gaming
system. I read that Intel P4 CPUs does a better job with video stuff
which I rarely do (mostly cropping and encoding with DivX).

Also, I plan to replace my old SB Live! Platinum (without its LiveDrive)
to an Audigy2 (good EAX) or maybe a M-Audio Revolutions (probably not
due to weak EAX emulation).

Also, I will be installing Debian with Windows XP Pro to replace Red Hat
Linux 7.2. Yes, I do game in Linux with old games like Q3A, RTCW, ET,
etc.

Mainly, this upgrade is for gaming. The newest games are starting to show
my system's age like DOOM 3, Far Cry, etc. I do not overclock and my
setup must be able to survive in a 85+ degrees(F) room (AC is weak,
upstair room, and Southern CA's heat waves). Heat is a big issue for me.

Any suggestions on what I should get for my upgrade is welcomed.
--

"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[John Hall]

Seems to me like you have it nailed. Athlon 64, ASUS motherboard (I would
go for an Nforce3) Audigy 2. That's what I would pick. NVidia's Opengl
drivers are better according to some, so for a video card you may want to go
that route if you game in Linux.

JK

 

[JK]

Hello. I am planning to upgrade my computer system in a few weeks. I am
going to replace its motherboard, CPU, and memory. You can view my
current primary/gaming system on
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt ...

I am planning to keep all my old parts except sound card, RAM, CPU, and
motherboard. Now, the question is which CPU and which motherboard (was
an ASUS person in the past) do I want to get. From brief researches from
reading benchmarks, AMD Athlon64 seems like a good choice for a gaming
system. I read that Intel P4 CPUs does a better job with video stuff
which I rarely do (mostly cropping and encoding with DivX).

Also, I plan to replace my old SB Live! Platinum (without its LiveDrive)
to an Audigy2 (good EAX) or maybe a M-Audio Revolutions (probably not
due to weak EAX emulation).

Also, I will be installing Debian with Windows XP Pro to replace Red Hat
Linux 7.2. Yes, I do game in Linux with old games like Q3A, RTCW, ET,
etc.

Mainly, this upgrade is for gaming. The newest games are starting to show
my system's age like DOOM 3,

Since you mentioned Doom 3, I thought you would like to see this.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

 

[ANTant]

Well, I am not ready to let go of this video card. I only had it for one year
and paid like $400 for it!! I think I can still get more FPS because my Athlon
2200+ XP is the bottleneck in getting more FPS.

Seems to me like you have it nailed. Athlon 64, ASUS motherboard (I would
go for an Nforce3) Audigy 2. That's what I would pick. NVidia's Opengl
drivers are better according to some, so for a video card you may want to go
that route if you game in Linux.

--
"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[ANTant]

Yeah, I have seen that before. I wanted to get more confirmations from others.
It looks like AMD Athlon 64 will be my next CPU. Now, need to figure out the
motherboard brand and model. Any suggestions? I would like to get a stable
one that has been out more than 3-6 months so I can determine that it has
the known issues fixed, Debian's Kernel has the all the support, etc.

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Since you mentioned Doom 3, I thought you would like to see this.

--
"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[agh]

Yeah, I have seen that before. I wanted to get more confirmations from others.
It looks like AMD Athlon 64 will be my next CPU.

Be sure to go for a motherboard with the Socket 939 since this is the new
standard. The matching CPUs are somewhat more expensive since they just got
out, though..

 

[Ralph Stens]

Hello,

I want to do the same things like you (changing motherboard, CPU and RAM).
I'm using Debian Sarge and XP. I think about an AMD Athlon 64 (socket 939)
with an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinium motherboard.

Best regards

Ralph

============================================================
 Ralph Stens
 email : (e-mail address removed)
============================================================

 

[Barry Walsh]

Well, I am not ready to let go of this video card. I only had it for one year
and paid like $400 for it!! I think I can still get more FPS because my Athlon
2200+ XP is the bottleneck in getting more FPS.

You should be aware then that there's no 64bit Linux driver for any ATi
cards. There's only a basic 2d driver supplied with X.org.

 

[HeadRusch]

I just got a chaintech cheapie $75 bucks off Newegg, socket 754 (no problem
since when I upgrade its usually time for new Ram and MB options anyhow),
working fine....just...not sure I'd recommend using a single SATA drive as
your only HD option, I can't seem to get my Seagate SATA drive to act as the
boot device reliably.....

If you go Socket 939, you'll be paying big bucks....the boards and chips are
expensive...with the extra money you spend on 939 you could probably upgrade
to a 939 chip and MB in a years time by just sticking with some 754 parts
today, getting the most out of them, and upgrading when the time comes.

Otherwise, the Chaintech is an NForce 3-250 board and has all the tweaks you
could want to overclock with, etc. A great bargain board. There are other
great boards out there, the DFI Lanparty II I think is the current king, but
its brand new and pricy I think......

 

[Never anonymous Bud]

If you go Socket 939, you'll be paying big bucks....the boards and chips are
expensive...

Good S939 MBs on Pricewatch start at just over $110.

 

[Michael Starke]

Since you mentioned Doom 3, I thought you would like to see this.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

After carefully examining the numbers at the above link I have a few
observations.

First there is a huge price step up from the AMD Athlon 64 3000 + at
$205.00
to the next Athlon chip tested, the 3500 + at $347.00 . That's over a
hundred bucks for only 7 FPS increase
at 1280 X 1024 resolution. With that in mind, I might choose the cheaper AMD
chip as being
a good performance/cost option , but I'd still consider one of the P IV
based combos
in that price range depending on test results with other games, including
those still to be tested after
release, like HL2, for instance.

Also, thanks to the competition from AMD, Intel prices have dropped 25%.
That has yet to be reflected at retail level, but in the coming weeks it
should start to show up.

FWIW, my P-IV 3.0Ghz based system using a Radeon 9800 pro
gets a steady 60 FPS according to the timedemo I just ran.

mjs

http://www.soundclick.com/theageofreason

 

[ANTant]

After carefully examining the numbers at the above link I have a few
observations.

First there is a huge price step up from the AMD Athlon 64 3000 + at
$205.00
to the next Athlon chip tested, the 3500 + at $347.00 . That's over a
hundred bucks for only 7 FPS increase
at 1280 X 1024 resolution. With that in mind, I might choose the cheaper AMD
chip as being
a good performance/cost option , but I'd still consider one of the P IV
based combos
in that price range depending on test results with other games, including
those still to be tested after
release, like HL2, for instance.

Also, thanks to the competition from AMD, Intel prices have dropped 25%.
That has yet to be reflected at retail level, but in the coming weeks it
should start to show up.

FWIW, my P-IV 3.0Ghz based system using a Radeon 9800 pro
gets a steady 60 FPS according to the timedemo I just ran.

What resolution and stuff? At 1152x864 resolution, High Quality setting
in DOOM 3, all details at maximum, anistropic at max, no FSAA, etc., I
get about 27 FPS according to timedemo. 29 on the second run due to
caching. This was on my current Athlon XP 2200+ system.
--
"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[JK]

After carefully examining the numbers at the above link I have a few
observations.

First there is a huge price step up from the AMD Athlon 64 3000 + at
$205.00

More like $160 now.

to the next Athlon chip tested, the 3500 + at $347.00 .

The have the Athlon 64 3400+ listed, which is around $280.

That's over a
hundred bucks for only 7 FPS increase
at 1280 X 1024 resolution.

The 1280x1024 numbers show less difference than the 800x 600
for as a faster Athlon 64 is used, as the video card is starting to
become the limiting factor.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=1

With that in mind, I might choose the cheaper AMD
chip as being
a good performance/cost option

The Athlon 64 3000+ is a great value at around $160. A much better
idea than a Pentium 4 2.8 ghz similar in cost.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2065&p=1

 

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

Hello. I am planning to upgrade my computer system in a few weeks. I am
going to replace its motherboard, CPU, and memory. You can view my
current primary/gaming system on
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt ...

I am planning to keep all my old parts except sound card, RAM, CPU, and
motherboard. Now, the question is which CPU and which motherboard (was
an ASUS person in the past) do I want to get. From brief researches from
reading benchmarks, AMD Athlon64 seems like a good choice for a gaming
system. I read that Intel P4 CPUs does a better job with video stuff
which I rarely do (mostly cropping and encoding with DivX).

Also, I plan to replace my old SB Live! Platinum (without its LiveDrive)
to an Audigy2 (good EAX) or maybe a M-Audio Revolutions (probably not
due to weak EAX emulation).

Also, I will be installing Debian with Windows XP Pro to replace Red Hat
Linux 7.2. Yes, I do game in Linux with old games like Q3A, RTCW, ET,
etc.

Mainly, this upgrade is for gaming. The newest games are starting to show
my system's age like DOOM 3, Far Cry, etc. I do not overclock and my
setup must be able to survive in a 85+ degrees(F) room (AC is weak,
upstair room, and Southern CA's heat waves). Heat is a big issue for me.

Any suggestions on what I should get for my upgrade is welcomed.

While AMD-64 is really nifty, especially for server class applications, it's
not really accessible yet to most game software. So the clock speed winds up
dominating a lot of that performance. For this year at least, consider using
Xeon's on a dual-CPU capable board and add the second CPU later if you need
it.

Hyperthreading on CPU's is useful for some applications, but also still
over-vaunted.

 

[JK]

While AMD-64 is really nifty, especially for server class applications, it's
not really accessible yet to most game software.

What? The Athlon 64 does a great job of running 32 bit software. The integrated
memory controller(s) help provide great gaming performance.

So the clock speed winds up dominating a lot of that performance.

Very funny. Clock speed is meaningless, unless you are comparing
otherwise identical chips. Architecture is what is important. Notice
that a $160 Athlon 64 3000+ beats an $820 Pentium 4 EE 3.2 ghz
running Doom 3.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7

Even with its huge cache and much higher clock speed, the P4 3.2 ghz EE
doesn't beat an Athlon 64 3000+(which is 1/5th the cost) in Doom 3.

For this year at least, consider using
Xeon's on a dual-CPU capable board and add the second CPU later if you need
it.

Most games won't benefit from having a second cpu in the system.

 

[Tony Hill]

Hello. I am planning to upgrade my computer system in a few weeks. I am
going to replace its motherboard, CPU, and memory. You can view my
current primary/gaming system on
http://alpha.zimage.com/~ant/antfarm/about/computers.txt ...

I am planning to keep all my old parts except sound card, RAM, CPU, and
motherboard. Now, the question is which CPU and which motherboard (was
an ASUS person in the past) do I want to get. From brief researches from
reading benchmarks, AMD Athlon64 seems like a good choice for a gaming
system. I read that Intel P4 CPUs does a better job with video stuff
which I rarely do (mostly cropping and encoding with DivX).

Also, I plan to replace my old SB Live! Platinum (without its LiveDrive)
to an Audigy2 (good EAX) or maybe a M-Audio Revolutions (probably not
due to weak EAX emulation).

Also, I will be installing Debian with Windows XP Pro to replace Red Hat
Linux 7.2. Yes, I do game in Linux with old games like Q3A, RTCW, ET,
etc.

Mainly, this upgrade is for gaming. The newest games are starting to show
my system's age like DOOM 3, Far Cry, etc. I do not overclock and my
setup must be able to survive in a 85+ degrees(F) room (AC is weak,
upstair room, and Southern CA's heat waves). Heat is a big issue for me.

Any suggestions on what I should get for my upgrade is welcomed.

Given your requirements I would say that the Athlon64 is the clear
choice. The bang for your buck in games is far better than what Intel
has to offer. Other than that it's mainly just a question of how much
money you have to spend on what parts. The video card you've got is
already quite good and the other components all look like they'll be
up to the task.

About the only trick that you might run into is that many new
motherboards only come with 2 IDE controllers, enough for 4 devices.
It looks like your system has 5 IDE devices. Often the extra parallel
IDE connectors have been dropped in favor of Serial ATA ones, though
there are at least a few boards less with 3 IDE controllers (I know
Asus' A8V Deluxe has them).

Switching one (or more) of the hard drives to SATA would be another
solution, though here you have to watch out for driver support in
Linux which is still a bit weak.

Other than that, I'd say you're on the right path. Even the heat
thing should be a tiny bit better for the Athlon64 with it's "Cool 'n
Quiet" technology and lower maximum power consumption when compared to
the P4.

 

[Michael Starke]

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action Michael Starke





What resolution and stuff? At 1152x864 resolution, High Quality setting
in DOOM 3, all details at maximum, anistropic at max, no FSAA, etc., I
get about 27 FPS according to timedemo. 29 on the second run due to
caching. This was on my current Athlon XP 2200+ system.

I used the same settings as the Anandtech tests and got very similar results
for my CPU as shown on their charts.

mjs

 

[ANTant]

I used the same settings as the Anandtech tests and got very similar results
for my CPU as shown on their charts.

Ah, what do you use to play then? I am curious of your FPS with my type
of settings in the game.
--
"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[ANTant]

Given your requirements I would say that the Athlon64 is the clear
choice. The bang for your buck in games is far better than what Intel
has to offer. Other than that it's mainly just a question of how much
money you have to spend on what parts. The video card you've got is
already quite good and the other components all look like they'll be
up to the task.

About the only trick that you might run into is that many new
motherboards only come with 2 IDE controllers, enough for 4 devices.
It looks like your system has 5 IDE devices. Often the extra parallel
IDE connectors have been dropped in favor of Serial ATA ones, though
there are at least a few boards less with 3 IDE controllers (I know
Asus' A8V Deluxe has them).

Yeah, I believe my hardware friend activated the Raid controller (not
sure of the details) to use the 120 GB HDD. I had to get a new PSU
because it didn't have enouh juice due to the HDD AND the video card.
Sheesh.

Switching one (or more) of the hard drives to SATA would be another
solution, though here you have to watch out for driver support in
Linux which is still a bit weak.

Yeah, that is why I am thinking of getting an older motherboard like
754 so drivers do exist. Also, helps ot determine what is stable out
there and save money. I do NOT need the latest and newest stuff!

Other than that, I'd say you're on the right path. Even the heat
thing should be a tiny bit better for the Athlon64 with it's "Cool 'n
Quiet" technology and lower maximum power consumption when compared to
the P4.

How about comparing to the Athlon XP?
--
"Have I told you how much I like ants, huh? Especially fried in a
subtle blend of mech fluid and grated gears?" --Rampage to Inferno,
"Transmutate" in Transformers (Beast Wars)
/\___/\
/ /\ /\ \ Phillip (Ant) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx & http://aqfl.net
| |o o| | E-mail: (e-mail address removed) or (e-mail address removed)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address if your e-mail was returned.
( )

 

[Piet Pompie]

While AMD-64 is really nifty, especially for server class applications,

I didn't know that. Do you have a link that compares Athlon 64
favorably with the P4 for server applications?

Let the benchmarks show that the Athlon 64 is really really nifty for
_game_ class applications.

it's
not really accessible yet to most game software.

I didn't know that either. Which games are inaccessible with the
Athlon 64?

So the clock speed winds up
dominating a lot of that performance. For this year at least, consider using
Xeon's

This is the worst possible choice you can make. Using a CPU that is
much more expensive than an Athlon 64 requiring a much more expensive
motherboard for negative gain in game performance.

on a dual-CPU capable board and add the second CPU later if you need
it.

I know Falcon 4 and Quake 1 can use SMP with some effort, do you play
one of these? Or do you play something else that can?