Advanced defrag question

[Ron Hirsch]

What is the nitty gritty on the steps that defrag uses?

Specifically, can a crash of the computer during defrag lose or corrupt the
file that was in process at the time of the crash?

I had XP SP3 crash hard during a defrag with Auslogics defragger. I don't
know why. I rebooted afterwards, and all seemed well. There was a 2.048 GB
dump file on my C drive (the same size as my RAM), which I deleted. XP
appears to be running normally. But since I have several hundred programs
and utilities installed, it's hard to know if something may be corrupted
somewhere.

I ran the full 6 step disk check in XP prior to the next bootup, and all
tested out perfectly - no disk problems. But I continue to wonder if the
file that was being processed at the time of the crash was damaged.

I'd like to know the sequence of steps in the defrag process. Can a crash
compromise the file being defragged at the instant of the crash?

Ron Hirsch

 

[R. McCarty]

NTFS is a "Journaling" file system. A further extension of those
capabilities
is found in Vista's Transactional NTFS format. Both provide protections
against data loss.

 

[Charlie]

I had XP SP3 crash hard during a defrag with Auslogics defragger. I don't
know why. I rebooted afterwards, and all seemed well. There was a 2.048 GB
dump file on my C drive (the same size as my RAM), which I deleted. XP
appears to be running normally. But since I have several hundred programs
and utilities installed, it's hard to know if something may be corrupted
somewhere.

It is extremely unlikely that you'll ever find out. Rest assured that
interrupting a defrag session normally doesn't result in any harm.

You say your system is running fine. Relax. Move on.

Unless you can't because you're one of those who believes "Just
because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't following you".

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Hi Charlie and McCarty,

Thanks to you both for your replies.

I Googled "journaling file system", and this link has some good data on what
that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system

My problem is that I'm always a very curious person.

When the crash occurred, I should have taken out a digital camera, and shot
the blue screen, for my info. But I did not not. The Event Viewer in XP did
list the crash, but there was really no info on the cause, that I could see.

I am now a little nervous about doing my next weekly defrag. But, since I
also create weekly images of my C drive via True Image, if it should occur
again, I'll just restore an image from before the crash. The complete 6 step
chkdsk showed zero problems on the drive, so it should be fine. Actually, it
is a relatively new drive. The prior drive had a serious problem, and I had
to replace it last summer. It apparently had some problems that were
difficult to diagnose, with a sector(s) in the free space, and was causing
problems when the system tried to write to that area.

Thanks again

Ron

 

[Gerry]

Ron

My concern would be what caused the crash and do I need to fix something
so that it doesn't happen again. What was the complete Stop Error
report?

Have you installed any other Auslogic software like Boost Speed?


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Jim]

Hi Charlie and McCarty,

Thanks to you both for your replies.

I Googled "journaling file system", and this link has some good data on
what
that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_system

My problem is that I'm always a very curious person.

When the crash occurred, I should have taken out a digital camera, and
shot
the blue screen, for my info. But I did not not. The Event Viewer in XP
did
list the crash, but there was really no info on the cause, that I could
see.

I am now a little nervous about doing my next weekly defrag. But, since I
also create weekly images of my C drive via True Image, if it should occur
again, I'll just restore an image from before the crash. The complete 6
step
chkdsk showed zero problems on the drive, so it should be fine. Actually,
it
is a relatively new drive. The prior drive had a serious problem, and I
had
to replace it last summer. It apparently had some problems that were
difficult to diagnose, with a sector(s) in the free space, and was causing
problems when the system tried to write to that area.

Thanks again

Ron

A "weekly defrag"!!! You really believe in overkill.
Jim

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Gerry,

That is my real concern - waht did cause th crash. That is why I've trying
to understand what happened.

I have no other Auslogic software installed. The defrag software has been
used for about 6 months, with no problem. As I noted, the 6 step XP chkdsk
showed the C drive as 100% OK in all areas.

There is always the possibility that the bit error rate for hard drives
finally slipped a bit somewhere, but that's being too optimistic.

After I create my weekly image of the C drive, I plan on running Auslogic
defrag again.

The only info in the event viewer is

Category 102
Event ID 1003

Error code 000000d1, parameter1 00000060, parameter2 00000002, parameter3
00000000, parameter4 ba7074c6.


Ron

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ron

My concern would be what caused the crash and do I need to fix something
so that it doesn't happen again. What was the complete Stop Error
report?

Have you installed any other Auslogic software like Boost Speed?

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Hi Jim,

Yes, you could say that. But a weekly defrag takes only a couple of minutes,
as there's not much to defrag. We all have our "thing". I'm a very neat and
organized person, and I practise overkill in many areas.

I also create an image of my C drive weekly, and I back up all my data et al
after every session. I have a good program (Folder Sync) where I write
scripts to do that - so it's a piece of cake. I store images and backups on
a variety of drives - E: and F:, which are internal, and a number of USB
external drives.

True Image has saved me many times when I had hardware failures of drives,
and occasonal weird corruptions which were difficult to analyze, and fix.
Hard drives are guaranteed fo fail someday. I've had about 7 such failures
in my 22 years of using computers. In the beginning, using floppies, then
tapes, was a tough way to go. True Image is something that every computer
user should consider using. If I have my C drive crash and burn, I can
change the drive to a new already formatted one (which I always have on
hand), run TI from the recovery CD, and restore things to normal, all in
about 20 minutes.

I built the system - so I know my around it very well. All my activities are
for personal use - I retired many years ago.

That's a lot quicker than starting from scratch. Revo uninstaller lists over
200 programs et al that are installed. Plus I have about 15-20 external USB
devices. And I have much of my software highly customized. Starting from
scratch would probably take me at least 100 hours to get things back in
order.

So yes, I believe on overkill on everything.

Ron

+++++++++++++++++++++A "weekly defrag"!!! You really believe in overkill.
Jim

 

[Gerry]

Ron

Disable automatic restart on system failure. This should help by
allowing time to write down the STOP code properly should they occur
again. Right click on the My Computer icon on the Desktop and select
Properties, Advanced, Start-Up and Recovery, System Failure and uncheck
box before Automatically Restart.

It is best to leave it as disabled even after you resolve the problem.

Background information on Stop Error message
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms795930.aspx

0x000000D1: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
The system attempted to access pageable memory using a kernel process
IRQL that was too high. The most typical cause is a bad device driver
(one that uses improper addresses). It can also be caused by caused by
faulty or mismatched RAM, or a damaged pagefile.
Source: http://aumha.org/a/stop.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/installx86.mspx

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Which version of Windows XP? Home Edition, Professional or?

What hardware changes have you made recently?

Have chaned any IRQ settings?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Bill Sharpe]

Hi Jim,

Yes, you could say that. But a weekly defrag takes only a couple of minutes,
as there's not much to defrag. We all have our "thing". I'm a very neat and
organized person, and I practise overkill in many areas.

I also create an image of my C drive weekly, and I back up all my data et al
after every session. I have a good program (Folder Sync) where I write
scripts to do that - so it's a piece of cake. I store images and backups on
a variety of drives - E: and F:, which are internal, and a number of USB
external drives.

True Image has saved me many times when I had hardware failures of drives,
and occasonal weird corruptions which were difficult to analyze, and fix.
Hard drives are guaranteed fo fail someday. I've had about 7 such failures
in my 22 years of using computers. In the beginning, using floppies, then
tapes, was a tough way to go. True Image is something that every computer
user should consider using. If I have my C drive crash and burn, I can
change the drive to a new already formatted one (which I always have on
hand), run TI from the recovery CD, and restore things to normal, all in
about 20 minutes.

I built the system - so I know my around it very well. All my activities are
for personal use - I retired many years ago.

That's a lot quicker than starting from scratch. Revo uninstaller lists over
200 programs et al that are installed. Plus I have about 15-20 external USB
devices. And I have much of my software highly customized. Starting from
scratch would probably take me at least 100 hours to get things back in
order.

So yes, I believe on overkill on everything.

Ron

+++++++++++++++++++++
A "weekly defrag"!!! You really believe in overkill.
Jim

I would say you are so well protected that you need not worry about any
crashes that occur during defrag. You might consider changing weekly
defrags to monthly, though.

I've had a few crashes but only lost a hard disk once in 25 years of
computer ownership. The first few years don't count, as there were only
floppy disks then. <G> And, yes, I use Acronis True Image to back up.

Bill

 

[db.·.. >]

it is likely that windows
is not the problem but
your third party software.

it is best to simply utilize
the tools microsoft has
provided and ignore
third party replacements
because they have the
propensity to destabilize
or corrupt the operating.

if however you firmly believe
in the need to utilize third party
software, then issues with them
should be addressed by their
maker(s).

--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Hi Gerry,

Thanks for your reply and help.

I have always had the automatic restart on system failure disabled on my
system. I learned some years back that it should be that way.

After running True Image, I used Auslogic's defrag again, keeping my fingers
crossed. It went through that very smoothly. So the bottom line is that
whatever caused the problem is apparetnly no longer present.

I'm using XP Pro SP3, with all the MS updates as of this moment.

The only yellow marks in the Events Viewer were for ctfmon.exe, which I had
disabled, since WinPatrol info had given me info on that startup, indicating
that I did not need it. But, since it was shown in yellow, I reenabled it.

No recent hardware changes. But after this last defrag, I downloaded the
latest version, and replaced the one that I was using - from about 1 year
ago.

No IRQ settings were changed either.

I ran the "sigverif.exe" and a list came up with 32 items. Since I could not
"copy" the list directly. I did a screen capture of that list, but it is a
JPG file. Can I paste in an image for messages on the forum? I'd probably
have to go to an HTML format , but I didn't think that was allowed. If not,
I can probably OCR it to convert to text.

I'm not sure what "checked" means. There was something that looked vaguely
like a check at the beginning of 10 of them. I could just type in those
names if that is what "checked" means.

Thanks again -

Ron
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ron

Disable automatic restart on system failure. This should help by
allowing time to write down the STOP code properly should they occur
again. Right click on the My Computer icon on the Desktop and select
Properties, Advanced, Start-Up and Recovery, System Failure and uncheck
box before Automatically Restart.

It is best to leave it as disabled even after you resolve the problem.

Background information on Stop Error message
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms795930.aspx

0x000000D1: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
The system attempted to access pageable memory using a kernel process
IRQL that was too high. The most typical cause is a bad device driver
(one that uses improper addresses). It can also be caused by caused by
faulty or mismatched RAM, or a damaged pagefile.
Source: http://aumha.org/a/stop.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/installx86.mspx

Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right click on
the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

Which version of Windows XP? Home Edition, Professional or?

What hardware changes have you made recently?

Have chaned any IRQ settings?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Ron Hirsch]

Hi DatabaseBen,

It is difficult to assign the blame in this situation, where the problem
disappeared almost instantly, and has not reappeared.

It was also my understanding that the built in defrag program that MS uses
was from another company to begin with.

I believe that the bit error rate for hard drives is 1 in
10,000,000,000,000. It might have even been that.

I'm a retired electronics engineer, and I have a general understanding of
how hard drives work. When I try to visualize what they do, I say to myself
that it's not possible. But fortunately, they can't hear me, and they
continue to do it anyway.

Ron

+++++++++++++++++++++++

" db.·.. ><))) ·>` .. ." <databaseben at hotmail> wrote in message
it is likely that windows
is not the problem but
your third party software.

it is best to simply utilize
the tools microsoft has
provided and ignore
third party replacements
because they have the
propensity to destabilize
or corrupt the operating.

if however you firmly believe
in the need to utilize third party
software, then issues with them
should be addressed by their
maker(s).

--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces