A better defrag program?

P

Paul H

I have been running the built-in XP defrag over and over. My hard disk is
only 60% full, but the defrag gives up after doing a little work. The disk
is still a compete mess! Are there alternative defrag programs that I could
download, that I could trust? TIA, Paul
 
J

John Inzer

Paul said:
I have been running the built-in XP defrag over and over. My hard
disk is only 60% full, but the defrag gives up after doing a little
work. The disk is still a compete mess! Are there alternative
defrag programs that I could download, that I could trust? TIA, Paul
=================================
Maybe the freeware 'Auslogics Disk Defrag'
would be worth a try:

Auslogics Disk Defrag
http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag

--

J. Inzer MS-MVP
Digital Media Experience

Notice
This is not tech support
I am a volunteer

Solutions that work for
me may not work for you

Proceed at your own risk
 
P

Paul H

Maybe "desperately" is a little harsh, but it annoys me that 30 files are
too large to be defragmented when there is plenty of empty space available
if it were to be gathered together. I would prefer if the defrag process
ran until sufficient contiguous empty space existed so every large file
could be defragmented, or the defrager program told me that this is not
possible because of immovable fragments. I've also tried "Auslogics Disk
Defrag" with a better display and quicker but the same results. I'll try it
in safe mode.

Paul said:
I have been running the built-in XP defrag over and over. My hard disk is
only 60% full, but the defrag gives up after doing a little work. The
disk
is still a compete mess! Are there alternative defrag programs that I
could
download, that I could trust? TIA, Paul


I'll assume you are desperately trying to defrag because you are
experiencing slow speed. The defragger will quit when your file system is
sufficiently pooched.

Therefore, Run > cmd > chkdsk /f

or use the tool above the one that comes with the built-in defragger and set
it to schedule a check. Use the event viewer (Run > cmd > eventvwr) to see
what the results were.

You definitely want to make sure that your file system is OK before moving
all of your data around. Defragging is very overrated and check-disk is very
underrated. As XP is not a journaled file system like Vista and 7, it is
more than likely to get out of whack--and it does.
 
J

John Doue

Paul said:
Maybe "desperately" is a little harsh, but it annoys me that 30 files are
too large to be defragmented when there is plenty of empty space available
if it were to be gathered together. I would prefer if the defrag process
ran until sufficient contiguous empty space existed so every large file
could be defragmented, or the defrager program told me that this is not
possible because of immovable fragments. I've also tried "Auslogics Disk
Defrag" with a better display and quicker but the same results. I'll try it
in safe mode.




I'll assume you are desperately trying to defrag because you are
experiencing slow speed. The defragger will quit when your file system is
sufficiently pooched.

Therefore, Run > cmd > chkdsk /f

or use the tool above the one that comes with the built-in defragger and set
it to schedule a check. Use the event viewer (Run > cmd > eventvwr) to see
what the results were.

You definitely want to make sure that your file system is OK before moving
all of your data around. Defragging is very overrated and check-disk is very
underrated. As XP is not a journaled file system like Vista and 7, it is
more than likely to get out of whack--and it does.
I believe most defrag programs will skip files beyond a certain size,
since defraging them would require a lot of work and lots of empty space
on the disk, for a very limit benefit.

You have to realize that most defrag programs require a given percentage
of empty space on the disk to work correctly. To defrag large individual
files, you need to use a specifically design program. I believe
fits this bill.

But whichever way you look, make first a backup, then run chkdsk before
you attempt anything.
 
C

C

Paul said:
Maybe "desperately" is a little harsh, but it annoys me that 30 files are
too large to be defragmented when there is plenty of empty space available
if it were to be gathered together.

There isn't plenty of space and that's the problem. Move the files to a
larger partition if possible.
 
J

Jose

I have been running the built-in XP defrag over and over.  My hard diskis
only 60% full, but the defrag gives up after doing a little work.  The disk
is still a compete mess!  Are there alternative defrag programs that I could
download, that I could trust?  TIA, Paul

What does "gives up" mean?

What does "complete mess" mean?

Is there something in the Analysis Report that need explaining? You
can copy/paste it here.

If you are running from the Windows interface, don't expect to see one
huge blue block when you are done.

Look in the Event Log for messages from the defrag process to see if
the problem is real or imagined.
 
C

C

JacobH said:
40% isn't enough freespace? Something is dreadfully wrong somewhere if
that's the case!
Maybe move those 30 files off the drive, defrag it then move them back
and try again?

Nope, you need more space. Percentage means nothing; it's how much space
is available which you haven't indicated. Are these files on the C drive
or another partition? I had the same problem with Outlook's .pst file
and I moved it to the D partition which has over 200 GB free. Haven't
had a problem since.
 
D

db

firstly, you should run a chkdsk
to ensure that your mft is current
with the file system.

next, you mentioned having large
files that do not want to defrag.

the way to defrag them is to "move"
one of the files onto a clean partition
or re writable media.

the fragments will be pulled from
the hard disk and will be contiguous
on the other location.

then do the next file and the next.

after you move the big files defrag
your hard disk again.

then move each of the large files one
by one over to the hard disk.

incidentally, there are some files
that can not be defrag.

and you won't be able to move them
as well.

you will know which files to leave as
is.
--
db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- @Hotmail.com
- nntp Postologist
~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
C

C

Paul said:
This laptop only has a C: drive. I do have a 4gb flash drive for temp
storage.
View the attached picture to see my defrag results.
Here are the defrag results:

Volume (C:)
Volume size = 37.25 GB


Much too small. Can you store your 14 files in an external hard drive
with more space? Either that or get a much bigger hard drive, at least
160GB.
 
J

Jose

Paul H;1712281 Wrote:














There are MFT fragments and pagefile fragments that cannot be processed
by the XP defragger or the 'freeware' utilities. You need a commercial
grade defragger for those. I suggest that you download the free trial
version of Diskeeper 2010, install it, run a boot-time defrag for the
MFT and paging file, and then leave it on auto defrag mode. It will
defrag all the files, and what's more, the 2010 edition has a feature
that prevents much of the fragmentation during file writes, so future
defragging requirements will be lower. The free trial version works just
like the full version for a month, so you have plenty of time to do the
defrag.

I have never used any commercial defrag utilities - am I in trouble?

Volume (C:)
Volume size = 37.26 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 12.70 GB
Free space = 24.56 GB
Percent free space = 39 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 0 %
File fragmentation = 0 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 30,984
Average file size = 387 KB
Total fragmented files = 0
Total excess fragments = 0
Average fragments per file = 0.00

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 1536 MB
Total fragments = 0

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 3,918
Fragmented folders = 0
Excess folder fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 94 MB
MFT record count = 31,444
Percent MFT in use = 12 %
Total MFT fragments = 0
 
G

Gerry

Paul

How long is it since you last ran Disk Defragmenter?

Are you carrying out necessary preliminaries before you run Disk
Defragmenter ? Firstly you need to compact your Outlook Express files.

In Outlook Express place the cursor on Local Folders and select File,
Work Offline followed by File, Folder, Compact All. Do not attempt to
interupt or stop the process until it has completed. Close Outlook
Express when it has completed. As an aside your Outlook Express folders
are too large and you will encounter folder corruption and loss of
messages if you do not take measure to resolve that situation.

Next you need to run Disk Clean Up.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter.

A better programme than Disk CleanUp is cCleaner but note that cCleaner
will not handle System Restore points. Removing older restore points
should help get Disk Defragmenter to work better.
http://www.ccleaner.com/download

Your pagefile is causing problems as it has 18 fragments scattered
across the drive breaking up the free space. I suspect you have set
Windows to manage you pagefile. Whilst this is commonly recommended, a
fixed minimum = maximum pagefile avoids this problem but a completely
contiguous pagefile can be problematic to create where more than 50% of
the drive / partition is already occupied. I suggest you set the
pagefile to zero, run Disk Defragmenter, restart the computer and
recreate the pagefile.

Some other things to consider.

The default allocation to System Restore is 12% on your C partition
which is over generous. I would reduce it to 700 mb. Right click your My
Computer icon on the Desktop and select System Restore. Place the cursor
on your C drive select Settings but this time find the slider and drag
it to the left until it reads 700 mb and exit. When you get to the
Settings screen click on Apply and OK and exit.

A default setting which could be wasteful is that for temporary internet
files, especially if you do not store offline copies on disk. The
default allocation is 3% of drive. Depending on your attitude to offline
copies you could reduce this to 1% or 2%. In Internet Explorer select
Tools, Internet Options, General, Temporary Internet Files, Settings to
make the change. At the same time look at the number of days history is
held.

The default allocation for the Recycle Bin is 10 % of drive. Change to
5%, which should be sufficient. In Windows Explorer place the cursor
on your Recycle Bin, right click and select Properties, Global and
move the slider from 10% to 5%. However, try to avoid letting it get
too full as if it is full and you delete a file by mistake it will
bypass the Recycle Bin and be gone for ever.

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Here are the defrag results:

Volume (C:)
Volume size = 37.25 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 24.21 GB
Free space = 13.04 GB
Percent free space = 35 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 11 %
File fragmentation = 21 %
Free space fragmentation = 1 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 143,561
Average file size = 395 KB
Total fragmented files = 14
Total excess fragments = 18,157
Average fragments per file = 1.12

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 672 MB
Total fragments = 18

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 9,201
Fragmented folders = 1
Excess folder fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 221 MB
MFT record count = 153,780
Percent MFT in use = 67 %
Total MFT fragments = 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Files that cannot be defragmented
9 266 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\Adobe\Data1.cab
170 275 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\StorageCraft\ShadowProtect_3.3.zip
773 276 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{C668DDE7-8A20-4FD6-85AC-7E17A35456BD}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\ - a - Inbox.dbx
22 313 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\Downloads\ShadowProtect_3.5.zip
311 415 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\ShadowProtect_3.3\ENU_ShadowProtect3.x.iso
3,997 415 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\StorageCraft\ShadowProtect_3.3\ENU_ShadowProtect3.x.iso
7,995 520 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application Data\Google\Google Desktop Search\rpm.cf1
3,226 585 MB \Program
Files\Dvd-to-mpeg\TEMP\TMP00007F4507.mpg
1,610 644 MB \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{C668DDE7-8A20-4FD6-85AC-7E17A35456BD}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\ - f - friends & relatives.dbx
 
G

Gerry

Jose

But then I doubt you have set Windows to manage your pagefile!


--


Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
J

Jose

Here are the defrag results:

Volume (C:)
    Volume size                                = 37.25 GB
    Cluster size                               = 4 KB
    Used space                                 = 24.21 GB
    Free space                                 = 13.04 GB
    Percent free space                         = 35 %

Volume fragmentation
    Total fragmentation                        = 11 %
    File fragmentation                         = 21 %
    Free space fragmentation                   = 1 %

File fragmentation
    Total files                                = 143,561
    Average file size                         = 395 KB
    Total fragmented files                     = 14
    Total excess fragments                     = 18,157
    Average fragments per file                 = 1.12

Pagefile fragmentation
    Pagefile size                             = 672 MB
    Total fragments                            = 18

Folder fragmentation
    Total folders                             = 9,201
    Fragmented folders                         = 1
    Excess folder fragments                    = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
    Total MFT size                             = 221 MB
    MFT record count                           = 153,780
    Percent MFT in use                         = 67 %
    Total MFT fragments                        = 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Fragments       File Size       Files that cannot be defragmented
9               266 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\Adobe\Data1.cab
170             275 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\StorageCraft\ShadowProtect_3.3.zip
773             276 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{C668DDE7-8A20-4FD6-85AC-7E17A35456BD}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\    -  a -   Inbox.dbx
22              313 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\Downloads\ShadowProtect_3.5.zip
311             415 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\ShadowProtect_3.3\ENU_ShadowProtect3.x.iso
3,997           415 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\My
Documents\aatemp\StorageCraft\ShadowProtect_3.3\ENU_ShadowProtect3.x.iso
7,995           520 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application Data\Google\Google Desktop Search\rpm.cf1
3,226           585 MB          \Program
Files\Dvd-to-mpeg\TEMP\TMP00007F4507.mpg
1,610           644 MB          \Documents and Settings\Paul\Local
Settings\Application
Data\Identities\{C668DDE7-8A20-4FD6-85AC-7E17A35456BD}\Microsoft\Outlook
Express\    -  f - friends & relatives.dbx

Get it all down to zero (see the example in previous post)

Total fragments: 0
Files that cannot be defragmented: None

You can achieve this using the XP tools and a little sensible
interpretation of the results.
 
V

VanguardLH

Paul said:
Maybe "desperately" is a little harsh, but it annoys me that 30 files are
too large to be defragmented when there is plenty of empty space available
if it were to be gathered together. I would prefer if the defrag process
ran until sufficient contiguous empty space existed so every large file
could be defragmented, or the defrager program told me that this is not
possible because of immovable fragments.

Some defrag utilities will show you the "type" of files on the hard disk.
If some are tagged as "system", the defragmenter won't move those. These
are OS files that cannot be moved by a defragmenter. Often they are very
tiny files but can scattered across the partition. The result of them being
scattered and unmovable is that there may not be a big enough slice of disk
space between them to move an entire large file, so the large file remains
fragmented. No defragmenter will move these system files even when you
reboot and run the defrag utility (since a portion of the OS still must load
to run the defragmenter). I tried all the top commercial defragmenters and
none of them could move these tiny system files to make larger a contiguous
block of clusters in which a large file could get moved. I forget which but
it wasn't until one of them allowed me to interrogate the sectors which was
when I then discovered these tiny unmovable "system" files that were slicing
up large blocks of free clusters.

I haven't experimented with running the defragmenter from a bootable disc
(floppy or CD) to see if not having anything of the OS running from its
partition. What I've done in the past is to restore a logical image (not
logical files and not a sector-by-sector copy) of the partition. As the
files are laid down on the freshly formatted partition, those tiny system
files are grouped together. That means now you have large *contiguous*
blocks of clusters in which to move the large files; however, by doing the
logical image restore, you do a defragment, anyway. Defragmenters can only
do so much when they are running under the instance of the OS and for the
partition for the OS. A bootable disc that runs the defragmenter might work
better since the OS running the defragmenter isn't in the partition getting
defragged.
 

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