ADSL doesn't work with phone plugged into second socket

[Lionel van den Berg]

Hi all,

I've had my telecom company out 3 times to fix this problem. First it
seems there was a connection problem at socket in the wall. Having fixed
that another problem remains. I have two sockets, if I plug in the ADSL
modem it works fine, however, if I then plug in the telephone the ADSL
drops off but the phone still works.

Anyone have any idea what the problem might be? Could it be a dodgy line
filter?

Thanks

Lionel.

 

[Paul]

Hi all,

I've had my telecom company out 3 times to fix this problem. First it
seems there was a connection problem at socket in the wall. Having fixed
that another problem remains. I have two sockets, if I plug in the ADSL
modem it works fine, however, if I then plug in the telephone the ADSL
drops off but the phone still works.

Anyone have any idea what the problem might be? Could it be a dodgy line
filter?

Thanks

Lionel.

The "kit" from my ISP, included an ADSL modem and four filters. You
use the filter, one per telephone. This is the filter they provided
in the kit. You plug the filter into the wall, then the phone
goes into the filter. The filter removes the high frequency content,
before it gets to the phone.

http://www.dsldepot.com/ais/item_images/z200sm.JPG

The wiring would typically look like this. Notice that the ADSL
doesn't get a filter, but the phones do. An alternate technique,
is to use a splitter at the demarc. But that requires a technician
to come to your house. That is why the phone company sends
out these kits, for a "splitterless" install using filters.

ADSL---Router---Computers
|
|
C.O. ------- Demarc ---------X------X------X---X--X (jacks)
| | | |
Filter Filter Filter Filter
| | | |
Phone Phone Phone Phone

One issue I had, was the quality of the phone wiring and jacks
in the house. I determined that my jacks had some surface
corrosion (they didn't even work well with a dial-up modem,
so I had some advanced warning they were bad), and that
led to variable ADSL performance. Once I disconnected all
the phone wiring, and ran new wire to the computer room,
no more problems.

Mine looks like this.

ADSL---Router---Computers
|
|
C.O. ------- Demarc ---------X---X
|
Filter
|
Phone

See "Installation issues" here. I corrected my problem, without
reading this. I've had ADSL for several years now. I would
have done more wiring, but I'm just too lazy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_Digital_Subscriber_Line

Paul

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:37:21 -0400, Paul wrote:


Sorry for not including more information. I know where the line filter
belongs, it has been working flawlessly for over a year until the recent
problems.

My wiring looks more like the following:


ADSL---Router---Computers
|
|
C.O. ------- Demarc ---------X------X
|
Filter
|
Phone

One issue I had, was the quality of the phone wiring and jacks in the
house. I determined that my jacks had some surface corrosion (they
didn't even work well with a dial-up modem, so I had some advanced
warning they were bad), and that led to variable ADSL performance. Once
I disconnected all the phone wiring, and ran new wire to the computer
room, no more problems.

I looked at the jack immediately before the ADSL router. I could not see
any problems and the technician also checked this and found a small
wiring problem, I wasn't around so could see what it was.

I might have to take a look at the second jack as that is the one I've
been using the phone in to test.

Thanks for the info.

Lionel.

 

[GT]

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 05:37:21 -0400, Paul wrote:


Sorry for not including more information. I know where the line filter
belongs, it has been working flawlessly for over a year until the recent
problems.

My wiring looks more like the following:


ADSL---Router---Computers
|
|
C.O. ------- Demarc ---------X------X
|
Filter
|
Phone

You need a microfilter on every phone socket being used. You don't seem to
have a filter on the ADSL modem!

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

You need a microfilter on every phone socket being used. You don't seem
to have a filter on the ADSL modem!

The modem has one built in.

Even so, it was working for a year with no problems.

Cheers

Lionel.

 

[GT]

The modem has one built in.

Even so, it was working for a year with no problems.

Until you plugged a phone into the other socket?! The ADSL modem will work
without a filter, until you plug a phone into the line.

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

Until you plugged a phone into the other socket?! The ADSL modem will
work without a filter, until you plug a phone into the line.

Well how would it work for a year then suddenly have this problem?

The modem has a built in filter.

It may be coincidental also, as tonight both are working together though
not reliably, there has still be some drop offs.

I probably need to buy a second filter to make sure the first didn't go
dodgy anyway, so I can try 2 at that time.

Your logic still doesn't make sense to me but I'm not a telcoms engineer
so I will try some tests to prove it wrong and hopefully someone can
provide a strong argument as to why it is right.

Thanks

Lionel.

 

[GT]

Well how would it work for a year then suddenly have this problem?

Because you only just plugged the phone in to cause the problem! I quote,
"if I then plug in the telephone the ADSL drops off but the phone still
works" - this is entirely indicative of a missing filter on the ADSL modem.
Your diagram shows no filter on the ADSL modem.

The modem has a built in filter.

Are you sure - they don't normally? What model is that?

 

[jameshanley39]

Because you only just plugged the phone in to cause the problem! I quote,
"if I then plug in the telephone the ADSL drops off but the phone still
works" - this is entirely indicative of a missing filter on the ADSL modem.
Your diagram shows no filter on the ADSL modem.

He is obviously saying he had the phone in there for a year with the
ADSL modem, and no problem.

I cannot remember technicalities of if you have 2 phone sockets..
you can actually test if an ADSL filter is being used, and thus if it
is working.. I remember once using broadband and the phone, with no
filter, and it worked fine. But when the phone was off the hook, my
sensitive ears picked up a strange noise, which I narrowed down to
coming through the phone, and which went when I used a an adsl filter
(instead of a Y splitter). I remember meddling around even seeing
what happened if I put the phone in the adsl section and vice versa ,
just cannot remember the results!

I have heard of phones not working when you have ADSL.. If the filter
isn't be used right - so if it is not being used at all. So may in the
past, you had no ADSL filter, (or you had one, but were not plugging
your ADSL modem in it), and it just caused noise on the telephone
line, noise so quiet you didn't hear it.
But now, due to some electronic adjustment of some sort. Without a
filter you get nothing.

I have a bag of filters anyway.. Just having one or two are important
for troubleshooting.. Like any computer component.

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

He is obviously saying he had the phone in there for a year with the
ADSL modem, and no problem.

Thank you, I thought it was fairly obvious.

I went back to the manual that came with the ADSL modem and although I
couldn't find where it said that a filter was built in, the directions
stated to plug the modem directly into the phone port.

Regardless of all that, the problem is certainly in the line. When I
listen to the phone (which always has the filter on it) there is a
massive amount of static. How noisy it is varies, but it looks like I'm
back to having to work a time in with my telecom provider to fix it
(again).

Thanks for the help.

Lionel.

 

[GT]

Thank you, I thought it was fairly obvious.

I went back to the manual that came with the ADSL modem and although I
couldn't find where it said that a filter was built in, the directions
stated to plug the modem directly into the phone port.

Probably because it doesn't have one - hence the problems!!

Regardless of all that, the problem is certainly in the line. When I
listen to the phone (which always has the filter on it) there is a
massive amount of static. How noisy it is varies, but it looks like I'm
back to having to work a time in with my telecom provider to fix it
(again).

You are 'hearing' your unfiltered ADSL modem! Plug the modem into an ADSL
modem filter. Have you tried plugging the modem into a filter and a single
phone into the other connector on the filter?

 

[GT]

No, the modem doesn't get plugged into a filter, the filter
is to prevent the *noise* the modem uses from getting to
the phones. Plug each phone into the filters.

No the modem does plug into the filter - a microfilter has 2 ports on the
user side - ADSL and phone.

 

[Calab]

Regardless of all that, the problem is certainly in the line. When I

No the modem does plug into the filter - a microfilter has 2 ports on the
user side - ADSL and phone.

Not on any DSL around here... Filter only has one female RJ11 port on it.

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

Any filter the modem may need is always built in. The filters supplied
for phones are not to be used on the connection to the modem.

Finally there are some supporters. And the users manual already said not
to use the filter on the modem!.

So you are using a filter on the phone when you hear this static? Leave
the modem plugged in, try the phone at another outlet if you have one
(somewhere else on the premises). If you have other phones plugged in
too, unplug those for the test.

There is two outlets on the premises.

I hear the noise with all of the following combinations:

Modem not plugged in, phone with filter on second outlet.
Modem not plugged in, phone withOUT filter on second outlet.
Modem plugged in, phone with filter on second outlet.
Modem plugged in, phone withOUT filter on second outlet.
Modem not plugged in, phone with filter on first outlet.
Modem not plugged in, phone withOUT filter on first outlet.


I'm positive the problem is in the line, I just need to make the time to
get my telecoms company out, but I thank you for the help.

Lionel.

 

[GT]

That's the kind I was thinking of.

eBay item 120236053350 (http://tinyurl.com/yseqqw) . That is the only kind
of filter I have encountered. Its a BT MF50 microfilter. I have never seen
one that only provides a phone connection and I am not aware of any DSL
modems with built-in microfilters.

This is of course now a tangent to the original thread as the OP has
clarified that he hears 'noise' on the line with the phone connected and the
modem disconnected, so this is not a filter issue.

 

[GT]

Not on any DSL around here... Filter only has one female RJ11 port on it.

I just realised RJ11 is the *modem* connector!! The filter should also have
a phone connector (for the phone).

 

[jameshanley39]

I just realised RJ11 is the *modem* connector!! The filter should also have
a phone connector (for the phone).-

Do you in the US have the same connector for telephone and modem?
RJ11.

The only filters I have ever used have 2 sockets.

Checking google images, most seem to have 2. But I see one with one.
"1-Line Inline DSL Filter"
It says you use it for the analog/telephone device. Not the DSL
modem. i.e. you plug the telephone (or dialup modem!) in there. But
the DSL modem plugs without it.

So maybe you get static normally (if you are registered with DSL!) And
as Kony suggested, the dsl modem wants it, uses it. And the filter is
for the telephone..

So a telephone could technically be plugged into the DSL side, and it
would be the same as plugging it into a plain socket.. It should get
static if you do that though. .. I did test these things once..

I did have a telephone plugged in without a filter once, and I recall
hearing some static.. I don't think it messed up the DSL line though..
I am not sure. I guess if you plugged the DSL modem into the
telephone side, then it really wouldn't work 'cos it won't have the
noise it needs!

 

[Lionel van den Berg]

Hi all,

I've had my telecom company out 3 times to fix this problem. First it
seems there was a connection problem at socket in the wall. Having fixed
that another problem remains. I have two sockets, if I plug in the ADSL
modem it works fine, however, if I then plug in the telephone the ADSL
drops off but the phone still works.

Anyone have any idea what the problem might be? Could it be a dodgy line
filter?

As a follow up. Once I finally got my Telecom provider to fix the static
in the phone line the problem was solved.

Lionel.