How to connect CAT 5 or 6 to a modular telephone jack


M

micky

How to connect CAT 5 or 6 to a modular telephone jack?

I need to connect an 8C8P jack to a 4-conductor telephone-style jack, at
both ends of the cable..

Two basic questions:

A) Terminology, Does RJ45 just refer to 4-conductor modular telephone
line connectors, that are on the ends of the cord from the phone to
wall?

Or does it refer to the connectors on the ends of ethernet cables, too?
like 8C8P.

If the latter, is there a name that means only the 4-conductor
connectors two paragraphs up?

B) Functionality. A while back nice people in another group suggested
in order to shut my window more**, that I replace the wire which goes
from my telephone NID, network interface device, outside my house, up
the wall and in the window straight to a Y-connector and then to my
phone and my DSL modem, that I replace it with a flat or superflat
ethernet cable.** But it suddenly dawned on me that my DSL modem
expects a 4-conductor RJ45 plug/ And I just checked and so does the
NID. They are not wide enough for 8C8P.

So I need some kind of adapter. But I can't find an adapter yet. If I
get what is described as an in-line coupler,
http://www.showmecables.com/product/Cat6-White-Inline-Coupler-RJ45-Female-RJ45-Female.aspx?utm_source=amazon+product+ads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=390&utm_content=ShowMeCables&utm_term=Connectors+and+Adapters_Networking+/+Voice_RJ45_RJ45+Adapters&zmam=49733141&zmas=1&zmac=16&zmap=390
or even
http://www.amazon.com/Modular-Coupler-Straight-Through-01937/dp/B00006HSYC/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1407215286&sr=8-17&keywords=adapter+cat5+to+rj45+-usb
will I be able to plug a piece of 4-conductor phone-style modular cable
into the 8-conductor jack, with good electrical contact?

Or could I take a piece of CAT5E or CAT6, cut off the end, and put a
4-conductor RJ45 telephone-style connector on the middle 4 wires? No,
right, because they are shielded.

And if I take off t he shielding, won't the wire underneath be thinner
than what is normally used with the 4-conductor RJ45 plugs?

Or could I take a short piece of 4-conductor wire with an RJ-45 on both
ends, cut off one of them and connect an 8C8P plug in place of it. That
would work, I think, but I don't think my connecting tool can handle
8-pin connectors. I have to check on that.

What can I do?

Thanks


**Details: (The phone wiring inside my house is screwed up -- I've
spent hours trying to find the problem. Sometimes it works and sometimes
it doesn't, so I've stopped using it --- and even if it were good, it
comes in through the basement, but the DSL modem is on the 2nd floor
and I wanted the wire to go straight to the DSL modem (orignally a
phone-line modem for dial-up), So it goes up the front of the house
and through the window, but the wire I'm using is so thick that the
window and storm window won't shut all the way -- This is fine in the
summer but not the winter -- and if it did shut all the way, the
aluminum frame of both the window and the window frame would likely
weaken the signal using regular, unshielded, untwisted modular phone
wire*** or round 4-conductor white wire, the kind used inside interior
walls for extension phones., so that's why I was urged to switch to
CAT5E flat or superflat. )

***When I did use regular modular wire like what goes from the wall to a
phone, my download speed was consistently 1/3 of what it is consistently
now. The window shut okay, however.
 
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B

Bert

In micky
Does RJ45 just refer to 4-conductor modular telephone
line connectors, that are on the ends of the cord from the phone to
wall?
In my (limited) experience, the RJ45 8-position 8-conductor connector is
used for network connections and the RJ11 6-position 2-conductor
connector is used for residential single-line telephone connections.

If you have a multi-line telephone, you need connectors with more
conductors, like the RJ14 and RJ25, although they still have 6
positions.
 
M

micky

In micky


In my (limited) experience, the RJ45 8-position 8-conductor connector is
used for network connections and the RJ11 6-position 2-conductor
Ah, that's one term I needed to know, RJ11. Thanks.
connector is used for residential single-line telephone connections.

If you have a multi-line telephone, you need connectors with more
conductors, like the RJ14 and RJ25, although they still have 6
positions.
No I just have a single line phone**. Maybe a 6P2C connector will fit
in the jacks at the NID and the the DSL modem. I'll look again, and I
may have an RJ11 with which to check.

But even if it fits, I still need a way to get from RJ45 to RJ11 at each
end.



** although the NID itself is wired with two plugs, each with 2 wires.
And then there is a cable going to the basement that has at least 8
colors, that goes to an easy-connection device, I don't know where the
4 extra colors come from, but that's just a curiosity anyhow. I didn't
pay much attention to all this when the wires worked, because I only had
one line, but now that they don't work, I've unpllugged one of those
4P2C plugs and plugged in my own wire.
 
M

micky

In micky


In my (limited) experience, the RJ45 8-position 8-conductor connector is
used for network connections and the RJ11 6-position 2-conductor
connector is used for residential single-line telephone connections.

If you have a multi-line telephone, you need connectors with more
conductors, like the RJ14 and RJ25, although they still have 6
positions.
Using this, I wikied for 3 of the connectors and found out they are
called "registered jacks", RJ. I guess all the other jacks are not
registered and will be deported as soon as the rules are set. I got
redirected to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack


It lists: "modular connectors:

eight-contact 8P8C plug (used for RJ45, RJ49, RJ61 and others)
six-contact 6P6C plug used for RJ25
four-contact 6P4C plug used for RJ14 (often also used instead of
6P2C for RJ11)
four-contact 4P4C handset plug (also popularly, though incorrectly,
called "RJ9", "RJ10", or "RJ22")

RJ11, RJ14, and RJ25 can be plugged into the same six-pin 6P6C jack,
pictured." [That's what I t hought, but it says nothing similar for
8P8C.]

So I just have to find an RJ45 female to RJ25 male adapter. I see
there is a bunch of stuff. I'll find one I'm sure.

Thanks again.
 
P

Paul

micky said:
How to connect CAT 5 or 6 to a modular telephone jack?

I need to connect an 8C8P jack to a 4-conductor telephone-style jack, at
both ends of the cable..

Two basic questions:

A) Terminology, Does RJ45 just refer to 4-conductor modular telephone
line connectors, that are on the ends of the cord from the phone to
wall?

Or does it refer to the connectors on the ends of ethernet cables, too?
like 8C8P.

If the latter, is there a name that means only the 4-conductor
connectors two paragraphs up?

B) Functionality. A while back nice people in another group suggested
in order to shut my window more**, that I replace the wire which goes
from my telephone NID, network interface device, outside my house, up
the wall and in the window straight to a Y-connector and then to my
phone and my DSL modem, that I replace it with a flat or superflat
ethernet cable.** But it suddenly dawned on me that my DSL modem
expects a 4-conductor RJ45 plug/ And I just checked and so does the
NID. They are not wide enough for 8C8P.

So I need some kind of adapter. But I can't find an adapter yet. If I
get what is described as an in-line coupler,
http://www.showmecables.com/product/Cat6-White-Inline-Coupler-RJ45-Female-RJ45-Female.aspx?utm_source=amazon+product+ads&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=390&utm_content=ShowMeCables&utm_term=Connectors+and+Adapters_Networking+/+Voice_RJ45_RJ45+Adapters&zmam=49733141&zmas=1&zmac=16&zmap=390
or even
http://www.amazon.com/Modular-Coupler-Straight-Through-01937/dp/B00006HSYC/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1407215286&sr=8-17&keywords=adapter+cat5+to+rj45+-usb
will I be able to plug a piece of 4-conductor phone-style modular cable
into the 8-conductor jack, with good electrical contact?

Or could I take a piece of CAT5E or CAT6, cut off the end, and put a
4-conductor RJ45 telephone-style connector on the middle 4 wires? No,
right, because they are shielded.

And if I take off t he shielding, won't the wire underneath be thinner
than what is normally used with the 4-conductor RJ45 plugs?

Or could I take a short piece of 4-conductor wire with an RJ-45 on both
ends, cut off one of them and connect an 8C8P plug in place of it. That
would work, I think, but I don't think my connecting tool can handle
8-pin connectors. I have to check on that.

What can I do?

Thanks


**Details: (The phone wiring inside my house is screwed up -- I've
spent hours trying to find the problem. Sometimes it works and sometimes
it doesn't, so I've stopped using it --- and even if it were good, it
comes in through the basement, but the DSL modem is on the 2nd floor
and I wanted the wire to go straight to the DSL modem (orignally a
phone-line modem for dial-up), So it goes up the front of the house
and through the window, but the wire I'm using is so thick that the
window and storm window won't shut all the way -- This is fine in the
summer but not the winter -- and if it did shut all the way, the
aluminum frame of both the window and the window frame would likely
weaken the signal using regular, unshielded, untwisted modular phone
wire*** or round 4-conductor white wire, the kind used inside interior
walls for extension phones., so that's why I was urged to switch to
CAT5E flat or superflat. )

***When I did use regular modular wire like what goes from the wall to a
phone, my download speed was consistently 1/3 of what it is consistently
now. The window shut okay, however.
I see a splitter device here.

http://dual-comm.com/RJ45_RJ11_Cable_Share.htm

Ethernet 8 wire cable is arranged in 4 pairs and supports
communications at 125MB/sec using GbE.

If you use the splitter idea, it reserves four pins (1,2,3,6)
for 10/100BT Ethernet (no more GbE), and of the remaining four wires,
it arranges two of the wires for the RJ11 phone line. On the RJ11
(like, with six pins), the middle two pins might be "line 1".
You don't have to use the RJ45 jack of course, and could
use a splitter like this, as a RJ45 to RJ11 adapter.

You would need to purchase such a splitter, as intended for
your own country. I would not buy a "BT splitter" for usage
in Canada or US, because there might be some subtle difference
in how they wire stuff there. And vice versa. It might be
which pins on the RJ11 they use, which could differ. I think
mine, the center two pins would be the ones I use.

Since the wires are arranged in pairs, if you have excess wires
to work with, you have the choice of routing Tip and Ring over
a single twisted pair. Or putting Tip on a wire in one pair,
and Ring on a wire in the other pair. I don't know which of those
choices is most appropriate. If you buy the splitter concept,
someone has made this decision for you (as to which wires
of 4,5,7,8 have Tip and Ring).

*******

When I rewired my phone wiring here (due to low data rates),
at that time I could buy four wire untwisted cable at the store.
I drilled a hole in a closet in the room I'm in, and routed
the wire from the basement, through a drop ceiling area, then
up through the hole in the floor. I didn't get creative, and
just stuck with the wire colors as I found them. (Preserved
wire colors on both ends.) By disconnecting the old phone wire
network at the demarc in the basement, things worked a lot
better. In the room I'm in, I used one of those square RJ11 boxes
with the four screw terminals on the back. The screw terminations
accept solid wire provided by the cable I bought. Mine doesn't
look exactly like this, but this illustrates the screw termination
part.

http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/RJ11-4-Conductor-Single-Gang-Ivory-Round-Wall-Plate-Back.jpg

4 wire
TelcoWire --- Basement(demarc) ----- computer room -+- filter --- phone
|
X +-- ADSL --- router ...
|
+-- all other house jacks (dead)

That's how I fixed mine up. The "All other house jacks" have
a corrosion problem, and getting the jacks off the wall, some
of which are painted down, is a non-starter. The old jacks
were just left sitting there, like decorations.

My phone company used to provide a multi-page primer on the web,
for doing your own phone wiring. The phone company charges $99
to step inside your house, to correct errors. (The $99 is for
the "truck roll".) But if you make no wiring errors, you're
allowed to do your own house wiring here.

Paul
 
P

Peter Jason

I see a splitter device here.

http://dual-comm.com/RJ45_RJ11_Cable_Share.htm

Ethernet 8 wire cable is arranged in 4 pairs and supports
communications at 125MB/sec using GbE.

If you use the splitter idea, it reserves four pins (1,2,3,6)
for 10/100BT Ethernet (no more GbE), and of the remaining four wires,
it arranges two of the wires for the RJ11 phone line. On the RJ11
(like, with six pins), the middle two pins might be "line 1".
You don't have to use the RJ45 jack of course, and could
use a splitter like this, as a RJ45 to RJ11 adapter.

You would need to purchase such a splitter, as intended for
your own country. I would not buy a "BT splitter" for usage
in Canada or US, because there might be some subtle difference
in how they wire stuff there. And vice versa. It might be
which pins on the RJ11 they use, which could differ. I think
mine, the center two pins would be the ones I use.

Since the wires are arranged in pairs, if you have excess wires
to work with, you have the choice of routing Tip and Ring over
a single twisted pair. Or putting Tip on a wire in one pair,
and Ring on a wire in the other pair. I don't know which of those
choices is most appropriate. If you buy the splitter concept,
someone has made this decision for you (as to which wires
of 4,5,7,8 have Tip and Ring).

*******

When I rewired my phone wiring here (due to low data rates),
at that time I could buy four wire untwisted cable at the store.
I drilled a hole in a closet in the room I'm in, and routed
the wire from the basement, through a drop ceiling area, then
up through the hole in the floor. I didn't get creative, and
just stuck with the wire colors as I found them. (Preserved
wire colors on both ends.) By disconnecting the old phone wire
network at the demarc in the basement, things worked a lot
better. In the room I'm in, I used one of those square RJ11 boxes
with the four screw terminals on the back. The screw terminations
accept solid wire provided by the cable I bought. Mine doesn't
look exactly like this, but this illustrates the screw termination
part.

http://www.showmecables.com/images/catalog/product/RJ11-4-Conductor-Single-Gang-Ivory-Round-Wall-Plate-Back.jpg

4 wire
TelcoWire --- Basement(demarc) ----- computer room -+- filter --- phone
|
X +-- ADSL --- router ...
|
+-- all other house jacks (dead)

That's how I fixed mine up. The "All other house jacks" have
a corrosion problem, and getting the jacks off the wall, some
of which are painted down, is a non-starter. The old jacks
were just left sitting there, like decorations.

My phone company used to provide a multi-page primer on the web,
for doing your own phone wiring. The phone company charges $99
to step inside your house, to correct errors. (The $99 is for
the "truck roll".) But if you make no wiring errors, you're
allowed to do your own house wiring here.

Paul
This is very interesting, and I have a new CCTV system to install. The
old one with coax cable is obsolete and the new one uses IP cable of
the Cat5 or Cat6 variety. I am laying the cable myself but there are
so many types available that I am confused about the right type.
http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/
The cable length will be 50 metres (170ft) from the PVR to each camera
and most cabling will be indoors. The DC or AC cable is already there
so The IP cable will not carry any voltage. Which cable to use?
There are so many grades available. The cameras are
http://dahuawebcamera.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/dahua-dh-hac-hf3200p-1080p-hdcvi-review/
Peter
 
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P

Paul

Peter said:
This is very interesting, and I have a new CCTV system to install. The
old one with coax cable is obsolete and the new one uses IP cable of
the Cat5 or Cat6 variety. I am laying the cable myself but there are
so many types available that I am confused about the right type.
http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/
The cable length will be 50 metres (170ft) from the PVR to each camera
and most cabling will be indoors. The DC or AC cable is already there
so The IP cable will not carry any voltage. Which cable to use?
There are so many grades available. The cameras are
http://dahuawebcamera.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/dahua-dh-hac-hf3200p-1080p-hdcvi-review/
Peter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable

250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet),
1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

100 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet),
and 1000BASE-T (Gigabit Ethernet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet

1000BASE-T uses all four cable pairs for simultaneous transmission
in both directions through the use of adaptive equalization and a
five-level pulse amplitude modulation (PAM-5) technique. The
symbol rate is identical to that of 100BASE-TX (125 Mbaud)

That tells you (maybe), that the cables are all backward compatible
with regard to 10/100/1000 networking. One difference, is what
happens when you bundle the Ethernet cables together. For example,
installers at work would take huge trunks of cables, and put
nylon wraps around them. This is bad from a crosstalk perspective,
and if there is enough crosstalk, it might require retransmission
of a TCP/IP packet.

So if you go Cat6, the difference would be visible to instrumentation,
when fat bundles of Cat6 are assembled. Cat6 also has headroom for
potential higher rate transmission (but with an attendant reduction
in max cable length).

*******

In this article, you can see that again, the Cat5-Cat5e-Cat6 comparison
is like "Good-Better-Best" in towels at Sears.

http://machinedesign.com/technologies/how-choose-slip-rings-gigabit-ethernet-connectivity

"For this measurement the filter is a fifth-order Butterworth
with a 3-dB cutoff at 100 MHz." [That suggests the PAM-5 is carried
in 100MHz of bandwidth...]

Based on what I read there, I would select *either Cat5e or Cat6* .

The Cat6 would be for the purpose of putting in a real estate brochure
for the house, that it has been "upgraded to Cat6". In other words,
it's a nice to have, for the day you're running some 10GBE protocol
over shorter cable lengths. But the Cat5e will likely solve the
IP camera wiring problem of today. People generally don't
recommend going cheap on cables, because once they're in the
walls, there's nothing you can do with them. Sure, you could run
conduit, to support pulling them or something, but in a lot of
cases these cables will just be (carefully) stapled down. If
you're doing that, use an appropriate fastener that won't
cut the cable.

And when I suggest Cat5e or Cat6, I'm trying to put GbE cabling
in your walls, suited to all GbE applications. Some day, a high
resolution camera might need more than 12.5MB/sec transfer rate,
at which time you want GbE. The low-resolution cameras now, might
well be 100BT with MPEG compression, and able to keep the data rate
in the 3-5MB/sec range.

*******

This is not an IP camera. It's coaxial.

http://dahuawebcamera.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/dahua-dh-hac-hf3200p-1080p-hdcvi-review/

It uses HDCVI transmission, and I couldn't find any documents
which didn't just waffle about it. Like this one. Apparently
HDCVI is bidirectional, with most of the bandwidth in the
recording direction, but there's some capability in
the other direction for control. One forum, some users
compared recorded quality, and the HDCVI is a little soft.
Implying as you would expect, some sort of compression
and signal conditioning at the camera end. No idea what
kind of signal is present on the cable. There's no reason
an IP camera could not do better, as the IP camera is
working with a shorter cable length, and not solving the
same problem this one is (extreme reach).

http://www.hdcvi.com/File/Upload/201211/20121120131707109.pdf

You can see the back of the camera here, with coaxial connector
and female input power connections.

http://dahuawebcamera.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/catch2.jpg

Maybe you had some other IP camera in mind ? With an IP
camera, you can use PoE for powering, if you need the
entire solution to be carried by one cable.

Paul
 
P

Peter Jason

Peter said:
This is very interesting, and I have a new CCTV system to install. The
old one with coax cable is obsolete and the new one uses IP cable of
the Cat5 or Cat6 variety. I am laying the cable myself but there are
so many types available that I am confused about the right type.
http://au.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/
The cable length will be 50 metres (170ft) from the PVR to each camera
and most cabling will be indoors. The DC or AC cable is already there
so The IP cable will not carry any voltage. Which cable to use?
There are so many grades available. The cameras are
http://dahuawebcamera.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/dahua-dh-hac-hf3200p-1080p-hdcvi-review/
Peter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable

250 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet),
1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX (Gigabit Ethernet)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

100 MHz and is suitable for 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX (Fast Ethernet),
and 1000BASE-T (Gigabit Ethernet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet

1000BASE-T uses all four cable pairs for simultaneous transmission
in both directions through the use of adaptive equalization and a
five-level pulse amplitude modulation (PAM-5) technique. The
symbol rate is identical to that of 100BASE-TX (125 Mbaud)

That tells you (maybe), that the cables are all backward compatible
with regard to 10/100/1000 networking. One difference, is what
happens when you bundle the Ethernet cables together. For example,
installers at work would take huge trunks of cables, and put
nylon wraps around them. This is bad from a crosstalk perspective,
and if there is enough crosstalk, it might require retransmission
of a TCP/IP packet.

So if you go Cat6, the difference would be visible to instrumentation,
when fat bundles of Cat6 are assembled. Cat6 also has headroom for
potential higher rate transmission (but with an attendant reduction
in max cable length).

*******

In this article, you can see that again, the Cat5-Cat5e-Cat6 comparison
is like "Good-Better-Best" in towels at Sears.

http://machinedesign.com/technologies/how-choose-slip-rings-gigabit-ethernet-connectivity

"For this measurement the filter is a fifth-order Butterworth
with a 3-dB cutoff at 100 MHz." [That suggests the PAM-5 is carried
in 100MHz of bandwidth...]

Based on what I read there, I would select *either Cat5e or Cat6* .

The Cat6 would be for the purpose of putting in a real estate brochure
for the house, that it has been "upgraded to Cat6". In other words,
it's a nice to have, for the day you're running some 10GBE protocol
over shorter cable lengths. But the Cat5e will likely solve the
IP camera wiring problem of today. People generally don't
recommend going cheap on cables, because once they're in the
walls, there's nothing you can do with them. Sure, you could run
conduit, to support pulling them or something, but in a lot of
cases these cables will just be (carefully) stapled down. If
you're doing that, use an appropriate fastener that won't
cut the cable.

And when I suggest Cat5e or Cat6, I'm trying to put GbE cabling
in your walls, suited to all GbE applications. Some day, a high
resolution camera might need more than 12.5MB/sec transfer rate,
at which time you want GbE. The low-resolution cameras now, might
well be 100BT with MPEG compression, and able to keep the data rate
in the 3-5MB/sec range.

*******

This is not an IP camera. It's coaxial.

http://dahuawebcamera.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/dahua-dh-hac-hf3200p-1080p-hdcvi-review/

It uses HDCVI transmission, and I couldn't find any documents
which didn't just waffle about it. Like this one. Apparently
HDCVI is bidirectional, with most of the bandwidth in the
recording direction, but there's some capability in
the other direction for control. One forum, some users
compared recorded quality, and the HDCVI is a little soft.
Implying as you would expect, some sort of compression
and signal conditioning at the camera end. No idea what
kind of signal is present on the cable. There's no reason
an IP camera could not do better, as the IP camera is
working with a shorter cable length, and not solving the
same problem this one is (extreme reach).

http://www.hdcvi.com/File/Upload/201211/20121120131707109.pdf

You can see the back of the camera here, with coaxial connector
and female input power connections.

http://dahuawebcamera.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/catch2.jpg

Maybe you had some other IP camera in mind ? With an IP
camera, you can use PoE for powering, if you need the
entire solution to be carried by one cable.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I'll order the Cat5 from my old CCTV installer because
it's the one they use all the time. I'm going to buy all the
hardware from them and do the installation, buy a packet of 4 IP
addresses, and then have them commission the system of two cameras
upgradable to four. This will save much money.

Yes the camera brochure they supplied was for the old coax system, and
now they suggest this IP one...
http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/HD-Surveillance-Camera-p/zavio-f7210.htm
or at least something very similar.
Peter
 
P

Paul

Peter said:
Thanks Paul, I'll order the Cat5 from my old CCTV installer because
it's the one they use all the time. I'm going to buy all the
hardware from them and do the installation, buy a packet of 4 IP
addresses, and then have them commission the system of two cameras
upgradable to four. This will save much money.

Yes the camera brochure they supplied was for the old coax system, and
now they suggest this IP one...
http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/HD-Surveillance-Camera-p/zavio-f7210.htm
or at least something very similar.
Peter
Draw me a diagram of your intended networking setup.

*******

This is what I'd do. I don't know what software you'd
use on the Public side, while using your remote computing device.

LAN WAN
202.123.234.56
Cam#1 192.168.1.2 ---| POE capable |--- Cable Modem --- remote viewing app
Cam#2 192.168.1.3 ---| router box ? | (Port forward
Cam#3 192.168.1.4 ---| | to port on NVR)
Cam#4 192.168.1.5 ---| |
| |
NVR computer ---| |

The idea would be, the NVR computer records the content
of the four video feeds. The four video cameras could
connect at 100BT rates. The NVR computer has a GbE connection
(so I need a GbE router box with POE). The POE is so
the cameras don't need a separate power feed (optional).
The NVR needs enough bandwidth for four feeds in and
one feed out (5X camera bandwidth), which I'm guessing
gets pretty close to needing to use GbE. 1X camera
bandwidth goes to the WAN side, while viewing.

Once the video is stored on the NVR, the remote viewing application
logs into the NVR. This requires port forwarding a particular
port, so that an external attempt to connect, gets forwarded
to the serving software running on the NVR.

Using the remote viewing app, you select one of the four cameras
for viewing.

The idea behind this setup, is only one public IP address is needed.

If you want to do it the following way, you'll need deep pockets.
No router at all. This would be a way of using four public IP addresses
in the routable range (not 192.168). The remote viewing application would
connect by issuing the correct Dynamic DNS address like
petercamera1.jason.com or petercamera2.jason.com, where DDNS
maps the symbolic address to the numeric one. So now we have
four Cable Modems and four coax cables running to the
pole on the street. And four Cable Modem connection bills
to pay each month.

Cam#1 192.168.1.2 --- Cable Modem#1 --- remote viewing app
202.123.234.56

Cam#2 192.168.1.3 --- Cable Modem#2 ---
202.123.234.57

Cam#3 192.168.1.4 --- Cable Modem#3 ---
202.123.234.58

Cam#4 192.168.1.5 --- Cable Modem#4 ---
202.123.234.59

The NVR idea does some multiplexing and concentration of a sort,
inside the home, and reduces the externally facing stuff to
just one connection.

HTH,
Paul
 
P

Peter Jason

Draw me a diagram of your intended networking setup.

*******

This is what I'd do. I don't know what software you'd
use on the Public side, while using your remote computing device.

LAN WAN
202.123.234.56
Cam#1 192.168.1.2 ---| POE capable |--- Cable Modem --- remote viewing app
Cam#2 192.168.1.3 ---| router box ? | (Port forward
Cam#3 192.168.1.4 ---| | to port on NVR)
Cam#4 192.168.1.5 ---| |
| |
NVR computer ---| |

The idea would be, the NVR computer records the content
of the four video feeds. The four video cameras could
connect at 100BT rates. The NVR computer has a GbE connection
(so I need a GbE router box with POE). The POE is so
the cameras don't need a separate power feed (optional).
The NVR needs enough bandwidth for four feeds in and
one feed out (5X camera bandwidth), which I'm guessing
gets pretty close to needing to use GbE. 1X camera
bandwidth goes to the WAN side, while viewing.

Once the video is stored on the NVR, the remote viewing application
logs into the NVR. This requires port forwarding a particular
port, so that an external attempt to connect, gets forwarded
to the serving software running on the NVR.

Using the remote viewing app, you select one of the four cameras
for viewing.

The idea behind this setup, is only one public IP address is needed.

If you want to do it the following way, you'll need deep pockets.
No router at all. This would be a way of using four public IP addresses
in the routable range (not 192.168). The remote viewing application would
connect by issuing the correct Dynamic DNS address like
petercamera1.jason.com or petercamera2.jason.com, where DDNS
maps the symbolic address to the numeric one. So now we have
four Cable Modems and four coax cables running to the
pole on the street. And four Cable Modem connection bills
to pay each month.

Cam#1 192.168.1.2 --- Cable Modem#1 --- remote viewing app
202.123.234.56

Cam#2 192.168.1.3 --- Cable Modem#2 ---
202.123.234.57

Cam#3 192.168.1.4 --- Cable Modem#3 ---
202.123.234.58

Cam#4 192.168.1.5 --- Cable Modem#4 ---
202.123.234.59

The NVR idea does some multiplexing and concentration of a sort,
inside the home, and reduces the externally facing stuff to
just one connection.

HTH,
Paul
I know so little about it. They tell me I'll need 4 new IP
addresses, one for each camera and one for the upstairs connection to
the present computer (for storing 'events'). They have sent me a
demo of their system results:
http://www.freedomvms.com/samples/
and some brochures of the components...
http://www.camvex.com.au/images/dvromega.jpg
(4-camera unit).
System:
http://www.camvex.com.au/images/IP_benefits.gif
Camera: or similar...
http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/HD-Surveillance-Camera-p/zavio-f7210.htm
and "Freedom Client" software, bundled with the NVR presumably..
http://www.securityelectronicsandnetworks.com/articles/2014/06/13/freedom-surveillance-vms

Optical zooming is not required because the hiRez permits digital
zooming.


The deal is that I do all the donkey work in laying cables, camera
housings etc, with their hardware, and then they come and commission
it. I have ordered the cable Cat5 300m approx $140.
 
P

Paul

Peter said:
I know so little about it. They tell me I'll need 4 new IP
addresses, one for each camera and one for the upstairs connection to
the present computer (for storing 'events'). They have sent me a
demo of their system results:
http://www.freedomvms.com/samples/
and some brochures of the components...
http://www.camvex.com.au/images/dvromega.jpg
(4-camera unit).
System:
http://www.camvex.com.au/images/IP_benefits.gif
Camera: or similar...
http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/HD-Surveillance-Camera-p/zavio-f7210.htm
and "Freedom Client" software, bundled with the NVR presumably..
http://www.securityelectronicsandnetworks.com/articles/2014/06/13/freedom-surveillance-vms

Optical zooming is not required because the hiRez permits digital
zooming.


The deal is that I do all the donkey work in laying cables, camera
housings etc, with their hardware, and then they come and commission
it. I have ordered the cable Cat5 300m approx $140.
Just be careful in the interpretation, before looking for public
IP addresses.

The NVR box should do the recording, while also acting as a streaming
server. The four cameras would have LAN side addresses, like 192.168.x.x
and on your home router, you'd make sure the DHCP setup in there, has
enough addresses defined to cover the new 192.168.x.x ones.

Then, the NVR supports streaming. So you don't connect directly
to the cameras from the outside world. You view from the outside
world in "near real time". Perhaps the selected streamed feed coming
from the NVR, is one second delayed with respect to the camera itself.

Your router then needs at least one port forwarded to the NVR private
LAN address. The NVR meets the definition of "server", and will serve
up video by streaming it.

It's true, if you had a single camera, you could dispense with recording
entirely, port forward the router directly to the camera, and log into
the camera from the Internet. There would be no delay in that case.
But also later, no recorded log from the camera (because we didn't use
an IP NVR). You could add an IP NVR to one camera, and still stream
to the outside world, and that would add continuous recording capability.
Here, you're still logging into the NVR from the outside world, when
wishing to view the camera contents.

Cable Modem
(WAN) | 202.123.234.56
|
Router (port forward, to reach NVR from WAN
| |
Single Camera ----- |
192.168.2.3 |
NVR
192.168.2.4

The 192.168 addresses are not routable, so you can't just type
192.168.2.3 into your remote computer browser and get there.
Any access from the outside world, involves the router and port
forwarding. There are limitations on how many things can be
port forwarded, so it makes more sense to make just one
connection from the remote computer, to the WAN side of the
router, and from there, the router sends the request packets
to the IP NVR.

If the setup didn't have an NVR as an intermediary, then you
could have a "what's going on right now" setup, with a more
direct connection to the Internet.

Another poster has a web site set up, with cameras at the beach.
You are effectively logging into his NVR, which is a
conventional PC running NVR style recording software.
This machine has one public-facing IP address, and
dyndns maps extremesurfcam.dyndns.org to the current IP address
of the cable modem (which can change if the cable modem
reboots or the power glitches). So dyndns is used to
register the single IP address, after a numeric IP address
change. And when you log in to this machine, it can be
done by port forwarding if you want.

http://extremesurfcam.dyndns.org/jpegpull.htm

Paul
 
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P

Peter Jason

Just be careful in the interpretation, before looking for public
IP addresses.

The NVR box should do the recording, while also acting as a streaming
server. The four cameras would have LAN side addresses, like 192.168.x.x
and on your home router, you'd make sure the DHCP setup in there, has
enough addresses defined to cover the new 192.168.x.x ones.

Then, the NVR supports streaming. So you don't connect directly
to the cameras from the outside world. You view from the outside
world in "near real time". Perhaps the selected streamed feed coming
from the NVR, is one second delayed with respect to the camera itself.

Your router then needs at least one port forwarded to the NVR private
LAN address. The NVR meets the definition of "server", and will serve
up video by streaming it.

It's true, if you had a single camera, you could dispense with recording
entirely, port forward the router directly to the camera, and log into
the camera from the Internet. There would be no delay in that case.
But also later, no recorded log from the camera (because we didn't use
an IP NVR). You could add an IP NVR to one camera, and still stream
to the outside world, and that would add continuous recording capability.
Here, you're still logging into the NVR from the outside world, when
wishing to view the camera contents.

Cable Modem
(WAN) | 202.123.234.56
|
Router (port forward, to reach NVR from WAN
| |
Single Camera ----- |
192.168.2.3 |
NVR
192.168.2.4

The 192.168 addresses are not routable, so you can't just type
192.168.2.3 into your remote computer browser and get there.
Any access from the outside world, involves the router and port
forwarding. There are limitations on how many things can be
port forwarded, so it makes more sense to make just one
connection from the remote computer, to the WAN side of the
router, and from there, the router sends the request packets
to the IP NVR.

If the setup didn't have an NVR as an intermediary, then you
could have a "what's going on right now" setup, with a more
direct connection to the Internet.

Another poster has a web site set up, with cameras at the beach.
You are effectively logging into his NVR, which is a
conventional PC running NVR style recording software.
This machine has one public-facing IP address, and
dyndns maps extremesurfcam.dyndns.org to the current IP address
of the cable modem (which can change if the cable modem
reboots or the power glitches). So dyndns is used to
register the single IP address, after a numeric IP address
change. And when you log in to this machine, it can be
done by port forwarding if you want.

http://extremesurfcam.dyndns.org/jpegpull.htm

Paul

This is great, but what sort of cameras are these, 720s or 1070s? The
images seem a bit furry. This is the setup I'm aiming for too.
Anyway, I've started on my project at the factory and bought the cable
you suggested (B) which comes in a 305meter box for about AUD$145 with
a auto-spooling guts that works rather well. One leg of cable has
been done (C) ready for the camera in a few weeks or so. The
present archaic setup is (A) with a Windows2000 PC on the top shelf, a
new 24V AC power supply, an old power backup, a cheap screen and
various power boards.
More to follow...
https://imageshack.com/i/exC2hcxEj
 
P

Paul

Peter said:
This is great, but what sort of cameras are these, 720s or 1070s? The
images seem a bit furry. This is the setup I'm aiming for too.
Anyway, I've started on my project at the factory and bought the cable
you suggested (B) which comes in a 305meter box for about AUD$145 with
a auto-spooling guts that works rather well. One leg of cable has
been done (C) ready for the camera in a few weeks or so. The
present archaic setup is (A) with a Windows2000 PC on the top shelf, a
new 24V AC power supply, an old power backup, a cheap screen and
various power boards.
More to follow...
https://imageshack.com/i/exC2hcxEj
The Extremesurfcam is the work of a person with the userid
of "(PeteCresswell)". He's a regular visitor to the news groups.

The "fuzzy" comes when streaming servers resize, re-compress, or
change the video file type of what is being served. You will have
time to play around with all that stuff, and see what works.

Paul
 
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P

Paul

Paul said:
The Extremesurfcam is the work of a person with the userid
of "(PeteCresswell)". He's a regular visitor to the news groups.

The "fuzzy" comes when streaming servers resize, re-compress, or
change the video file type of what is being served. You will have
time to play around with all that stuff, and see what works.

Paul
I think his server software might be this stuff.

http://blueirissoftware.com/technology/

Sometimes, how this stuff works, is the browser at the client
end needs a plugin. Because at least some (efficient) video formats
are licensed at the CODEC level (MPLA say). So even if a package
was available for free, there may still be a small charge for
a client viewer capability. And I can't seem to find the
details I need, browsing that web site.

OK, the terms as listed here are "15 day trial". Don't download
it from this site, because you might get a toolbar. Download
the package (when you're ready for it), from the previous link.

http://download.cnet.com/Blue-Iris/3000-13633_4-10159499.html

If you read the reviews there, the software developer is an
apparent one-man shop kind of operation. So tech support will
be limited. Just use the trial and see if you can get it set up.
If you haven't got all your hardware in place, I would not waste
the trial right now, and wait until all hardware is available to test.
That way, you may be able to see how much CPU it will need.

I think Pete needed a CPU upgrade for his setup. Computers now
have all sorts of acceleration features, which can make a difference
to how much video software like this will use. As an example, if
you're viewing the "console" view on the server machine, and
looking at all the cameras at once, the software may use the
hardware scaler in the video card. I have a video card that
doesn't have a hardware scaler, and to scale a single video
takes 40% CPU just for the scaling operation. When I swapped
video cards, the CPU usage went back down into the noise.
Just so you have some idea what can contribute to heavy CPU
usage. If the software is recoding all the video (convert
from MPEG to XVid or something), you can imagine how hefty a
CPU you might need to handle four streams that way. If
an Intel processor with QuickSync was used, then depending
on the format, the movie decoding step would be "free" and
not cost any CPU cycles. The devil is in the details,
and I'd really need to track down a third party review
of BlueIris, to figure out what it is doing compute-wise.

On Windows, the DXVA stack is how the computer capabilities
are discovered by your software. So if the software hooks
into that, perhaps the power of your machine will be naturally
discovered. Not everything now, has to be clumsily hand coded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DXVA

There is also software that has its origins as FFMPEG
or libavcodec, but that tends to mainly use the CPU.
I don't know how much progress they've made on tapping
into hardware acceleration.

Paul
 

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