4:3 vs 16:9

S

Scott Micale

I know this really isn't a MM question, but I was hoping that some of you
video guru's could shed some light on this for me. I use MM, but I am now
starting to get into more upscale video editing software like Adobe Premiere
Pro 1.5. My question has to do with 4:3 vs. 16:9. I have just a regular DV
Cam which I assume it does 4:3. I have a 57" Widescreen TV that I want to
take my video footage and play it on it. With my TV being 16:9 will I have
black bars on the right and left of my screen because it is recorded in 4:3?
Is there a way to get that footage to play without the bars on both sides
and still look proportional? I can live with having the bars on the top and
bottom. Any help on this would be great!
 
R

Rehan

Most widescreen TV's also have a zoom feature to enlarge the 4:3 frame to
fill in the 16:9 screen by cropping away the top and bottom edges... Can you
not use that feature?

Within Movie Maker you can convert the video footage to widescreen by
applying a static zoom-in effect as described below. First change the output
aspect ratio to 16:9 from Tools->Options->Advanced. Then apply the following
static zoom to your 4:3 clips.

The following xml code defines a custom effect for movie maker. To use it
copy paste the code into notepad or any other text editor and save it as
crop.xml in "C:\Program Files\Movie Maker\Shared\AddOnTFX" folder. Make sure
the saved file has extension ".xml". Restart Movie maker so that it loads
the new effect.

<TransitionsAndEffects Version="1.0" >
<Effects>
<EffectDLL guid="{B4DC8DD9-2CC1-4081-9B2B­-20D7030234EF}">
<Effect name="Zoom Fixed 75%" iconid="33">
<Param name="InternalName" value="Simple3D" />
<Param name="ScaleA" value="1.3333" />
<Param name="InitialScaleA" value="1.3333" />
</Effect>
</EffectDLL>
</Effects>
</TransitionsAndEffects>


Note look for a new effect named "Zoom Fixed 75%" in the effects area.



--
Rehan
MS MVP -- Digital Media
www.rehanfx.org - get transitions and effects for Windows Movie Maker
 
A

Al Stu

Rehan, Do you actually verify these provide the desired effect?

For instance this one doesn't work as there are typos that need to be
corrected. But that's only the beginning. According to my testing it does
not restore/maintain correct aspect ratio, as it is resizing both the
vertical and horizontal by the same percentage. Sure it now fills the
screen height but in doing so the width is also increased. What is needed
is the ability to resize the X and Y independently.

Similarly for the Rotate & Size one you posted couple days ago.
 
S

Scott Micale

My Widescreen does not have this zoom feature that you are referring to.

I will see if the other options put out there will work in Adobe Premiere
Pro. One other question that might help me understand this. If 4:3 is 720
x 480, what is 16:9 considered?

Thanks guys!
 
A

Al Stu

The DV-AVI file its self is 720x480 regardless of 4:3 or 16:9. There is a
flag to instruct the player/viewer/display device which image aspect ratio
to use. Since not all display devices have the same pixel aspect ratio the
number of display device pixels used is dependent on the display device
pixel aspect ratio. Typically computer screens have square pixels (1:1) and
TV's have rectangular pixels (1:various).

To display the video with the correct H:V proportionality the display device
has to determine how many pixels are required to render the image with the
specified aspect ratio. To display on a computer screen with square pixels
would use 853x480 screen pixels to display the 720x480 video if flagged as
widescreen (16:9), or 640x480 if flagged as 4:3.

Lab Exercise:
Take a snap shot of a 4:3 and a 16:9 DV-AVI clip in movie maker and look at
the number of H:V pixels. They should be 640x480 and 853x480 respectively.

Extra Credit:
Take a snapshot of the same videos from the time-line and compare to the
snapshots taken from the clips collection.

Copyright © 2005, Al Stu (2348410). All Rights Reserved.
 
R

Rehan

Hi Al and Scott

Hmmmm... I am sorry for the typo... but I was copying pasting from an older
message. Dont know how come there got a typo in that code. Nevermind I am
including the correct code below.

Furthermore, I went back and tested the code again. It works as expected
with still pictures (thats what i tested earlier perhaps). However testing
it with a movie clip showed the odd behaviour you mentioned... Movie Maker
does weird stuff with the movie clip and expands it to fill the full 16:9
frame... This is annoying. However I have a fix for that too. You will need
to get my PIP Plus plugin. Then install the code below and use "PIP+ Expand
Y 1.33x" or "PIP+ Shrink X 0.75x" for movie clips. The "Zoom Fixed" effect
would work for 4:3 still pictures in 16:9 frame.

Note: These effects would continue to work with the freeware usage of PIP+.

Instructions:
First downlaod and install PIP Plus http://www.rehanfx.org/pipplus.htm
Then copy paste the code below to a text editor and save as "zoom.xml" in
folder "C:\Program Files\Movie Maker\Shared\AddOnTFX". Restart WMM.


<TransitionsAndEffects Version="1.0" >
<Effects>
<EffectDLL guid="{B4DC8DD9-2CC1-4081-9B2B-20D7030234EF}">
<Effect name="Zoom In Fixed 75%" iconid="33">
<Param name="InternalName" value="Simple3D" />
<Param name="ScaleA" value="1.3333" />
<Param name="InitialScaleA" value="1.3333" />
</Effect>
</EffectDLL>
<EffectDLL guid="{0BEDE179-3361-4eea-9058-11CBB1739D50}">
<Effect name="PIP+ Expand Y 1.333x" iconid="33">
<Param name="RectA" value=" 0.0, 0.0,-0.165, 1.0,1.333;" />
</Effect>
<Effect name="PIP+ Shrink X 0.75x" iconid="33">
<Param name="RectA" value=" 0.0, 0.125,0.0, 0.75,1.0;" />
</Effect>
</EffectDLL>
</Effects>
</TransitionsAndEffects>


Let me know how it works. Also I will appreciate if you explain what was
wrong with the rotate effects I posted. Thanks.
 
A

Al Stu

"Let me know how it works. Also I will appreciate if you explain what was
wrong with the rotate effects I posted."

Basically the same thing. As I understood it, the purpose was to rotate
video shot sideways so it would now display up-right and maintain proper H:V
proportionality. Perhaps this also works with stills, but with video it
resizes both H & V the same percentage, thus a disproportional video. Much
the same as the built-in rotate 90, 180, 270 degrees effects.

Haven't tested the latest yet but will let you know when I do. Will be
working on a project soon in which most of the footage was accidentally shot
in 4:3 and then a few clips 16:9. Typically I only do 16:9 but I'm thinking
if I crop all the 4:3 footage there will be too much lost from the top and
bottom. So I'll probably just bite the bullet, chop the 16:9 sides and do
4:3.
 
R

Rehan

Al said:
...
Basically the same thing. As I understood it, the purpose was to rotate
video shot sideways so it would now display up-right and maintain proper H:V
proportionality. Perhaps this also works with stills, but with video it
resizes both H & V the same percentage, thus a disproportional video. Much
the same as the built-in rotate 90, 180, 270 degrees effects.
Click to expand...


Well, I did a quick shoot of my kid with my digital camera in portrait
mode (camera rotated 90 degrees) and tried the xml scripts as posted
earlier... Worked exactly as expected.

Perhaps there is a difference in type/source of file... May I request
you to send me a small clip which has the problem rotating... Thanks.

support at rehanfx dot org
 
A

Al Stu

Try it with 16:9. Portrait is fairly close to square so it would not be as
noticeable.

Shoot some video of symmetrical objects like circles and squares, then
rotate 90 or 270 degrees.
 
A

Al Stu

Just did a test of the shrink x after rotating a DV-AVI 90 degrees and it
seems to correct the proportionality. However different values are required
for widescreen (16:9) vs. portrait (4:3).



By first appearances, with the correct values, Expand/Shrink X/Y looks like
it could be used for cropping or letterboxing 4:3 to 16:9 and visa-versa.



Here's a couple of xlm files using your PIP+ plug-in and xlm examples for
correcting the aspect ratio of rotated 16:9 and 4:3 videos and for aspect
conversion to/from 16:9/4:3. I think the numbers are correct by I certainly
do not guarantee so.



If only you could fashion a reverse play effect.
 

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