Rod Speed said:
Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.
You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the
majority of wireless keyboard users?
Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense but not so much for a
wireless keyboard. One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on
shared hosts (or, at least, on shared I/O devices to those hosts). I
use the mouse on the leftside of the keyboard although I am
right-handed because that lets me extend my arm straight forward
rather than at an angle due to lopsided keyboards (with the arrow and
number pads on the right). Other users want it on the right side of
the keyboard. So being wireless makes it trivial to position the
mouse on either side of the keyboard for multiple users. However,
that is not how most wireless mice are used; i.e., they have a single
user.
Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.
What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor
for which you paid extra so it is the equivalent of a much cheaper and
smaller monitor? I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway
waving their mouse around. I haven't seen anyone positioning the
mouse and keyboard much more than 1 to 3 feet from the monitor
monitor. Yes, I know, gimmickry sells.
Bluetooth is not just used for wireless mice. It's used for
networking, too. Just Google on the problems with RF interference
when using Bluetooth. That guy down the hallway waving his Bluetooth
mouse around and using binoculars to see his monitor will also have
interference problems. Oh, of course, your response is "not in a
properly configured system". You can configure the "system" only
within the limits of the settings that are provided. You are really
claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate interference with
other Bluetooth and other RF devices? If so, time to visit the US
Patent Office with that discovery.
You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low
battery.
During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?
If it flashes up a warning dialog, it will screw up the resolution of
the game, interrupt the game to pop you back to the desktop, and upon
returning
to the game you may not be able to restore a usable screen.
Indicators on the mouse, tray icons, and warning dialogs, all to
overcome or forestall the inevitable problem of failing battery
charge.
Yes, the particular wireless mouse that the OP mentioned may have an
indicator of battery life. So is the user actually monitoring that
indicator during gameplay or while working to figure out just when
they will have to plan for the temporary outage so they can replace
the batteries without interfering with their later use of the or
continue their work? I've never seen users watching their mouse.
Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.
Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look
at the voltage indicator. Hell, most users never notice the CapsLock
LED on their keyboard is lit until they notice they get all caps, then
they look.
And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.
Must be nice to have such a slow work schedule (or personal schedule).
Having to wait around 15 minutes let alone an hour is not tolerable.
I doubt the mouse will just happen to get low when it happens to be
lunch or break time. I wasn't looking to deliberately generate
interruptions in my game play or for other use of my computers or a
reason to slack off at work. Yeah, boss, gotta take an early/late
lunch because my mouse isn't charged up.
That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.
Which the user won't be monitoring while playing a game or when
engrossed in their work. They'll know to replace the batteries or
recharge when and after the mouse starts behaving erratically, and by
then voltage is too low. Keyboards have had ScrollLock, NumLock, and
CapsLock LEDs for decades and yet they don't monitor them until after
something doesn't behave as expected.
Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.
I didn't say no tray icon was provided. Yep, if you cannot argue the
point, chop it up so it looks like they said something else.
Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.
Yeah, you made that point already. Do you actually watch your mouse
as you move it around and click on its buttons?
Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:
Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz
Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the
MX1000. Since they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the
MX1000 is probably something less, like 200 Hz which puts it
equivalent to the corded mice. So if there are wireless gaming mice,
there aren't wired gaming mice? I've heard of programs, like USB
Mouserate Switcher, than can up the polling rate to 1000 Hz. While
Logitech has their wireless G7 gaming mouse, they also have their
wired G7 gaming mouse for those not wanting the extra weight of
batteries and the nuisances that batteries incur. So, yes, I was
wrong that the polling rate is worse for wireless mice. It just isn't
any better than wired mice.
Not a problem with a properly designed system.
You clearly didnt try the MX700.
After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries. I
use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use. Casual users
probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these. For short use, like a couple hours,
you might not mind. The same is true for the newbies that start
working in computer rooms and don't wear ear protectors because, well,
gee, all the fans don't seem to be that loud.
You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.
Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense. I can also get
a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at $60
(Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com). I did NOT include the MX1000
because "cordless performance that equals USB corded connection"
(Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125 Hz, and even
my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz. The G7 wireless (at the same
500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's price; $72 at
newegg.com) and you get 2.5 days of battery life for average game
play. More money with the nuisance of batteries. Such a deal.
Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.
Sorry, I meant they don't have the longevity of battery life as
promised by the mouse manufacturer. The cradle was provided to hide
that fact. Some even come with 2 battery packs with the cradle to
further hide the problem of using batteries (so you're back to
swapping batteries).
Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.
Except YOU don't constantly keep the mouse in motion. Most will go to
sleep in just 1 minute. With the IBM, it was 1.5 seconds to get it
out of sleep mode which meant I could be circling the mouse quite a
bit before the mouse cursor started moving. The Microsoft went to
sleep after 1 minute but was quicker to wake up but I could still see
the lag when I went to move the mouse before it woke up. The
Logitech's went to sleep after a longer period of inactivity and were
quicker to wake up, but they were also the shortest for battery
longevity. With a corded mouse, it never sleeps so you don't have to
"shake it" to wake it up. Cordless mice MUST go to sleep to preserve
battery life. If all you do is graphics then it's possible that you
keep you mouse continuously active. Same for when you are playing
games unless you find the keyboard provides better control, especially
for movement. For the rest of the use of the computer, you will use
the keyboard a lot, just like when you're typing your replies here.
Meanwhile your mouse sits idle and goes to sleep so you have to wake
it to get the mouse cursor moving.
It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.
Which is a Logitech model. Have you tried other brands? I said the
Logitech were smoother.
Some come with cradles so you don't have to replace batteries. Most
wireless mice do NOT have cradles. You think it is more reliable to
have users flexing a tab to remove a panel and be yanking out and
shoving in batteries? Besides the batteries, there is more to break
in wireless mice. After all, corded mice don't have to deal with
RF/EMF interference, switching channels to eliminate cross-talk
between nearby cordless mice or keyboards, and when they break (and
remember they ARE mechanical/manual devices so they do break) the
cordless units are cheaper to replace.
Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.
And farther range is a plus? So you have greater chance of
interference (from other Bluetooth devices or EMF) is a plus? What's
the point of extended range in a *mouse* or *keyboard*? Wireless
hubs/routers maybe, but mice? (rolls eyes)
Even you should be able to avoid that situation.
Not when you have a cubicle with 8 machines, 4 monitors (one on a KVM
for 7 of the hosts, one for the Sun, one for a remote test station,
and another for the alpha lab), and still need to retain enough
desktop space for paperwork and a phone. Not everyone has unlimited
space and can configure the physical layout anyway they want with an
unlimited budget to buy whatever they need.
Not with a properly designed system.
And still you have to explain how you define this "properly designed
system" within the limitations of the settings that are available in
the devices. How many channels are available to prevent interference
with other wireless devices? Can you budget for the shielding? Just
because it is possible doesn't mean it is feasible.
Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.
So you know that the OP lives in a house at a good distance from his
neighbors and not in a condo, townhome, or apartment where the
neighbors' computer are just across that sheetrock wall?
It has to be the same system too.
Let's see. In an apartment, you could have a neighbor to the left, to
the right, across the hall, upstairs, and downstairs. And with your
claimed Bluetooth, now you're including neighbors several rooms away
and several floors up and down. Not quite as bad as wireless mice in
populate cubicles but not so isolated as you imply.
Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing
batterys.
And now some of those coming with cradles are including 2 battery
packs because, gee, the batteries might be too low and the charge take
too long and the user wants to continue working or playing NOW. The
cradles were to hide the nuisances of batteries but they are proving
insufficient, especially for heavy gamers, so now they're back to
providing replaceable battery packs (so we're back to swapping
batteries) besides providing the cradle.
You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.
And why you better have a non-cordless phone for emergency use. If
the power goes out, so does your cordless phone. Why? Well, yeah,
the battery in the cordless phone still works but the base unit which
does NOT have batteries is dead and what your cordless phone uses to
interface to the POTS line. If you have cordless phones, you had
better get a UPS for them or add a corded phone somewhere in your
house so you can actually call the power company to report the outage.
I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.
So you're arguing that MORE strain and effort is better than less. Uh
huh. Users that have a good reason or simply feel the need to go
cordless usually don't lie or delude themself about the negative
tradeoff in the extra weight for the wireless mouse.
Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.
Advice from someone that doesn't care about fatigue or strain.
Masochism comes to mind for someone that actually likes to do it the
hard way. Yeah, if wireless mouse manufacturers couldn't figure out
how to lighten their devices (without reducing battery longevity), of
course they wouldn't want to do that, oh no. You think the other
mouse manufacturers would dread if someone came out with a wireless
mouse that weighed no more than a wired mouse? Personally I have no
desire to be shoving a brick around to move the mouse cursor.
Wrong again.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Oh, and you use telekinesis to raise and move over your mouse? How
wonderful for you. Or maybe you've permanently glued some velcro onto
your palm and onto the mouse.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
You're failing faster and faster.
Not everyone is a puny as you.
Some of us actually have to USE computers all day long and then into
the night, too. To you, your computer is a very pricey toy. For me,
it's a constantly used tool. Hold a pencil with your arm outstretched
straight from your side so it is vertical. Nothing to it, huh? Now
keep your arm there for hours and hours. Yeah, right, you are
Superman. I was talking about using a computer for extended periods
of time, not between TV commercials. Even when gaming for hours on
end, I find a lighter mouse less strain on my fingers and wrist than
using a heavier mouse. But then, of course, you're Superman.
Not everyone is a puny as you.
Boring.
So dont break it, stupid.
Wow, a self-professed male living alone. Try living with kids in the
house, or coworkers that need to use your host. Again, he speaks from
experience regarding infrequent use of his computer equipment.
No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.
You've already paid for all those batteries by having to pay extra for
the cordless mouse that comes with a cradle. You really got the
cradle for free? You really got those LIon batteries for free?
Whether you bought a cordless mouse with or without a cradle, you
still ended up paying for all those batteries.
Only fools are actually that stupid.
So those without cradles won't need to buy batteries? Wonderful.
Let's hear about your new perpetual motion engine. Perhaps it was the
"unless you get one with a cradle" that was stupid. You didn't
clarify. If so, you're in that class. If what you meant to say is
that buying a cordless mouse without a cradle is stupid, well, you
already paid for all those batteries due to the higher cost of
including the charging cradle and the higher cost for the rechargeable
batteries.
Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.
Not if they are buying a number of machines (but then wireless gets
dumped in that case, anyway) to be used by a varying number of
ever-changing users. Anytime there are multiple parts, there's more
chance they get lost. Reliability is often more important than
gimmickry. And reliability is not just measured in how long the
device physically endures.
You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.
Again someone who professes that they can excuse their lack of work to
their boss because their mouse battery went dead. Obviously not a
demanding job when any excuse provides slack off time. Yes, I know
several cordless mouse users that have a cradle. I giggle every time
they mention they are waiting for their mouse to charge because they
forgot to put it in the cradle the day before. Meanwhile I'm still
working away with my corded mouse. In fact, anyone who used that
excuse ended up getting their mouse replaced with a corded one since
that stupidity for downtime was not tolerated. Performance is more
important than gimmickry.
It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.
I stand corrected. The number of cords at the system unit is reduced
since only 1 cord is needed for the receiver as opposed to 1 for the
mouse and 1 for the keyboard. But there is still the cord. The cords
matter at the keyboard and mouse? The keyboard doesn't move (except
for you and others that seem to find their lap more comfortable). It
just sits there on the desk. The mouse moves all around in a small
1-foot circle atop a mouse pad or the same area on a desktop. If the
mouse cord is unfettered, there is no restriction in movement of the
LIGHTER wired mouse (yeah, we already know your masochistic argument
that heavier mice are better).
Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.
The cord for the keyboard doesn't move around, either, and my point as
to why wireless is usually nonsense (not always, just usually). Yes,
you like to much more slowly type with the keyboard in your lap but I
wasn't speaking to abnormal use. Must be a very large lap you have for
both keyboard and mouse (ooh-hoo-oooh, don't like that image, think of
something else, think of something else).
Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.
And, for home users sitting alone at their computers wondering why
their game character isn't moving or acting erratically, the cretin is
that lone home user having to deal with themself. You haven't had to
deal with users much, you know, all those folks buying or using the
devices. Aren't you lucky. In a world of one.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
Now, don't you feel so much better qualifying me as a drug crazed
fantasizing
cretin-helping puny weakling? I didn't say there was no reason to get
a wireless mouse. I'm saying that most consumers get them when they
can't qualify why they need wireless.
