XP OEM - Interesting conversation with MS employee

[Alias]

Don't make excuses for their actions just so that you can feel better,
some day you may have a loved one or friend violently attacked by those
so called mentally ill individuals that made the choice to not take
their medications.

You really are ignorant regarding mental illness, aren't you? Medications
are not the cure all for severely mentally ill people who talk to their
hallucinations and haven't a clue as to what is going on around them. If it
were left up to you, Vincent Van Gogh would have never painted one painting.
You would have medicated the shit out of him and locked him up. Also, who
the HELL are you to decide what should be done with mentally ill people? Are
you a psychiatrist?

Just curious, though, I have followed this thread but I can't figure out how
the subject got changed from XP OEM to mentally ill people killing people?

Heh.

Alias

 

[Alias]

Violent people do need to be "put somewhere." The problem is, we do not at
this time have a place other than prisons for the criminally insane (which
have limited space) and regular prisons.

That's because the prisons are filled with drug users, inordinate long
sentences and people who steal because they're hungry. California's three
strike draconian laws come to mind.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

Do you not understand what "monopoly" is?

Yes, I do, clearly.

I never wrote that it's impossible to create a compatible
document, but your ideas about "won't see many issues" is an
aside and yet still evidence of the monopoly. If it weren't
the case, why would you feel "document compatibility issues
between MS Office" is relevant.

You are correct, the compatibility issues are not relevant to Monopoly
status, but they are the primary reason to use MS Products when working
with businesses in the USA.

If it weren't for the monopoly, why would anyone be paying
hundreds for MS Office when there are other free
alternatives? It's about the $ to support the software, and
the need for more than mere "almost compatibility".

If you license, with support, those free OS's, there is a fee to
purchase most of them. If you just download without support, burn your
own, and install, then there is no fee for most of them.

There are several boxed Linux installations available for purchase.

It also seems that I can get plenty of support for Fedora, in a number
of places, even without going to RedHat (which is also a viable avenue).
I could visit one of the many Linux support groups or their on-line
forum (much like with MS).

Yes, Linux does not support a good chunk of the newest wiz-bang
devices/toys, but it supports more than enough to have your average home
user on-line, scanning documents, using their digital camera, playing
DVD movies, and printing to many of the common/current printers.

With the install being as painless as Windows XP for ANYONE, it's
already a viable alternative to Windows, and is also available free to
those that have not remained ignorant by choice.

Sure, MS presents some issues when finding systems without Windows
installed, but most of the big vendors provide Linux based computers,
and so do many mom-and-pop shops. Yea, you can't get a linux PC at Best
Buy, but you can at WalMart.

At this point in time, the suggested Monopoly is just due to the already
installed base, as things move forward that will change/be replaced by
others.

 

[Leythos]

The information is _N_O_T_ on the outside of the box.
It could be on the outside of the box. It should be on the
outside of the box, but isn't.

You are wrong, it's on the box, not all of it is there, but the part
that tells you there are licensing requirements and additional
information about the licensing.

Just because you can't read the entire license where you purchase the
product doesn't make any difference - the information is available on
the web, via mail, through retailers chains, etc.... If you don't read
it, it's a personal choice.

 

[Leythos]

A Multimedia machine.


Does it have a Live CD? I ain't gonna try to install any distro on my
machine until a live CD distro will boot into a GUI desktop.

I don't know if they have a "Live CD" as I just swap drives when I want
to play with a new OS, I never dual/X boot, always a virgin install on a
clean drive.

Linux is a very good server OS. As a multimedia OS, it is a child.

I agree, as a workstation and server and general home user desktop it's
a fine product at this time (some distro's), as a multi-media rich
desktop it's not a good choice at this time. It will play DVD's and
music just fine, but I would not suggest it for other multi-media
functions at this time - but not many people do more than play
DVD/Music.

Most average users would be able to do as much with Linux as they can
with Windows, but that will change. MS's monopoly days are numbered,
but not over with yet.

It's only a monopoly due to the CURRENTLY installed base, as new systems
are purchased that is changing, so, it's no longer a monopoly, it's just
still popular.

 

[Leythos]

HA! Us? I knew Leythos had multiple personalities. I'll wager an answer,
when all your personalities show me just one keyboard with a "Linux" button?
Thanks for playing!

Why would you need a Windows button? I've removed the key-cap for the
Windows button off of most of mine as they are a PITA most times.

In order to understand why your question is insignificant you would need
to understand why the Windows key was added to SOME keyboards.

 

[Leythos]

You really are ignorant regarding mental illness, aren't you? Medications

No, I'm not. I actually have a son that has a mental issue, not as
significant as we've been talking about here, but classified as a mental
issue all the same.

are not the cure all for severely mentally ill people who talk to their
hallucinations and haven't a clue as to what is going on around them. If it
were left up to you, Vincent Van Gogh would have never painted one painting.
You would have medicated the shit out of him and locked him up. Also, who
the HELL are you to decide what should be done with mentally ill people? Are
you a psychiatrist?

I never suggested that "I" have any right to do anything, and I've said,
several times, that it's MY OPINION, and I am entitled to MY OPINION, at
least in the USA I'm permitted that right.

I guess you should be asked this: Who the hell are you to suggest that I
have the right to determine the course of action taken against anyone?

Just curious, though, I have followed this thread but I can't figure out how
the subject got changed from XP OEM to mentally ill people killing people?

Heh.

I have no clue at this point.

 

[Serial # 19781010]

I would have no problem if the ruling was "Guilty by reason of
insanity" as a means to identify those people that fit the description.
It would indicate they ARE guilty (as they really did commit the crime)
and that they are insane - so, they get treatment, then do time for the
crime (in any order)....

I think you may misunderstand the legal terms "guilty" and "crime".
Forget, for a moment, the issue of the insanity plea.

Say, for instance, your 5 year old was disciplined by her mother and
she was very angry about it. She got into her dad's gun case and shot
her mother dead.

The facts of the case are simple and clear- the 5 year old caused the
death of her mother.

The first legal question is whither or not a crime has been committed.
A crime, in the legal sense, can only be committed by an individual
who can reasonably be expected to understand the consequences of their
actions.

No competent DA in the country would, in this case, attempt to
convince a jury that a 5 year old girl fully understood the
consequences of her actions when she pulled the trigger on her dad's
357 magnum and blew the top of her mother's head off because her
mother would not let her go out and play until she ate all her peas.

The DA would quickly conclude that no crime was committed in the first
place because we are not dealing with a responsible person by anyone's
definition legal or otherwise.

So the verdict "innocent by reason of insanity" makes perfect sense.
Both a five year old and a deeply disturbed psychotic are truly
innocent of committing a crime because they may both be equally
incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. That is
they are legally not capable of committing a crime in the first place.

On the other hand a verdict of "guilty by reason of insanity" is a
contradiction in terms. A person is either guilty (fully responsible
and competent and thus held responsible for their actions) or insane
(not responsible thus not capable of a criminal act in the first
place) but not both at the same time.

As far as the law is concerned, in general, neither a 5 year old, nor
a psychotic nor a rabid mad dog commits crimes only a competent moral
agent can do that.

 

[kurttrail]

You're so full of shit, you're turning brown. MythTV has been around
longer than your beloved Windows Multimedia OS, and can do as much
and I'm sure better than Windoze.

Which is longer? The list of hardware the Myth runs on or the list of
hardware it won't?

And I didn't know that MythTV is a Linux Distro!

If MS's monopoly had anything to do with either its innovation or
quality of its products, it would have been gone a long time ago.
It's monopoly is due ONLY to its marketing muscle and the way it has
held computer distributors at ransom forcing them to package that
bastardized system with every PC they sell.

So? And the other thing it did well was repackage the innovation of
others.

I told you the other day to read the history, but I see that you're
unable to even do that ...

http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html

I skimmed through it.

You're just a blowhart that fires off with your little mind, and
doesn't have a clue about what you're talking about.

LOL! Much more than you. I not the one that is a diehard Zealot. I
see good in both. I can't hep it that Linux is not yet ready for the
average computer user. I'm hoping that it will be before MS releases
Longhorn, but right now I'd say it is too close to call.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[kurttrail]

I don't know if they have a "Live CD" as I just swap drives when I
want to play with a new OS, I never dual/X boot, always a virgin
install on a clean drive.

And I'm not even gonna do that until a Live CD will boot on my computer.

I agree, as a workstation and server and general home user desktop
it's a fine product at this time (some distro's), as a multi-media
rich desktop it's not a good choice at this time. It will play DVD's
and music just fine, but I would not suggest it for other multi-media
functions at this time - but not many people do more than play
DVD/Music.

I watch and record HDTV, create my own DVDs, edit music, . . . . plus
much more.

It's only a monopoly due to the CURRENTLY installed base, as new
systems are purchased that is changing, so, it's no longer a
monopoly, it's just still popular.

LOL! Like somebody said earlier in this thread, How many keyboards come
with a Linux button?

95% of the market is a monopoly.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[george]

Hi Michael,

Aren't YOU glad you asked a question!
So far 260+ 'opinions' and counting.....
But I get the feeling the jury is still out.....
Don't you just looooove newsnet.....

)
george

 

[NoStop]

So? And the other thing it did well was repackage the innovation of
others.

And in some cases kill the innovation of others after buying them out.

I skimmed through it.

Had you done more than "skim", I wouldn't have to had to tell you the above.

LOL! Much more than you. I not the one that is a diehard Zealot. I
see good in both. I can't hep it that Linux is not yet ready for the
average computer user.

Sorry Kurt, but I just don't believe you. You could not possibly see the
"good in both" if you come up with the absurd statements you are so prone
to do. They are so absurd at times, that I cannot believe that you've ever
actually run Linux, so could not possibly know how good or bad it is.

Your mantra is always "not yet ready for the average computer user". You
justify this perception based on your belief that one has to be on the
command line to do anything with Linux. This is a false statement and had
you actually used a modern Linux distro, you'd know that.

Another poster here relates how his 14 year old son was able to install
Linux without problems and to use it productively and the kid has very
little computer experience. Yet, you continue with your FUD.

You've repeatedly based your conclusions on whether a LIVE distro would run
on YOUR multimedia machine, that you admit has some hardware not found on
the usual type of computers people purchase. You refuse to acknowledge that
drivers for different hardware are proprietory and Linux developers must
reverse engineer this hardware, since they don't have access to the
software code, to get the hardware to work on a different OS. Although they
are making great strides in this department, to the point that Linux will
install without problems on the vaste majority of PCs out there, admittedly
there are cases where particular hardware will not work yet. But that is
true for Windoze as well and we've all seen it and know that there are
system requirements that must be met. The difference in the methologies
between Linux and Windows, is that in the former people are working hard to
get free solutions for the computer community in general rather than
forcing one to pay money for a solution.

From my experience, I'd say that 95% of the participants in this newsgroup
could install Linux on their PCs without any difficulty whatsoever. They'll
then have an OS that works, is not prone to viruses and malware, doesn't
require constant effort to keep running and is a much more productive and
pleasant computer experience than running Windows. They'll then have access
(just a few clicks away) to a vaste storehouse of free quality software. If
saying this makes me a "zealot", then I guess I am one. Linux has proven to
me to be very much superior to Windows in all respects and I am convinced
that anyone using it, wouldn't be plagued with all the problems we see
constantly reported in this newsgroup.

IMHO, as long as people like you spread the FUD, you cost end-users money!
As long as they stick with Windows, they are forced into spending money on
commercial applications because the crap bundled with Windows is so lame.
Because of everything like the "free" Notepad, to CD/DVD burning software,
users who want more in the Windows world have to cough up more cash. This
just isn't the case for Linux users and that is somewhat hard for
inexperienced Windows computer users to understand. Your FUD helps to
perpetuate the myths that serve Micro$soft's commercial interests not the
end-users' interests.

I really think you need to find a more appropriate domain name for your
website. One that doesn't pretend to be anti-Microsoft, while you continue
to spread the M$ FUD. If nothing else this will lend some credibility to
yourself.


--

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Windows is *NOT* a virus. Viruses are small and efficient.
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[kurttrail]

And in some cases kill the innovation of others after buying them out.

Had you done more than "skim", I wouldn't have to had to tell you the
above.

Oy! Like I didn't know that until you told me!

You are a fool.

Sorry Kurt, but I just don't believe you.

A Zealot doesn't believe a rational man? LOL! No Sh*t!

You could not possibly see
the "good in both" if you come up with the absurd statements you are
so prone to do. They are so absurd at times, that I cannot believe
that you've ever actually run Linux, so could not possibly know how
good or bad it is.

You'd be wrong then.

Your mantra is always "not yet ready for the average computer user".
You justify this perception based on your belief that one has to be
on the command line to do anything with Linux. This is a false
statement and had you actually used a modern Linux distro, you'd know
that.

How do you download OS updates? Is it the same way for all distros?

Another poster here relates how his 14 year old son was able to
install Linux without problems and to use it productively and the kid
has very little computer experience. Yet, you continue with your FUD.

He was able to install it and use a word processor. I doubt my mother
could have done that. She would know how to set of up the BIOS to boot
for CD. As a matter of fact, she has never been in the BIOS.

You've repeatedly based your conclusions on whether a LIVE distro
would run on YOUR multimedia machine, that you admit has some
hardware not found on the usual type of computers people purchase.

LOL! And other people would have similar problems with hardware I don't
have.

And even with minimalist hardware detection, they still don't boot. Not
a very good sign at all.

You refuse to acknowledge that drivers for different hardware are
proprietory and Linux developers must reverse engineer this hardware,
since they don't have access to the software code, to get the
hardware to work on a different OS.

When did I refuse to acknowledge that? That is one of the reasons I
feel that Linux ain't ready for primetime yet! Not enough hardware
drivers have been reversed engineered to make it easy for existing
computers to be upgraded to Linux for the AVERAGE COMUPUTER USER.

Although they are making great
strides in this department, to the point that Linux will install
without problems on the vaste majority of PCs out there, admittedly
there are cases where particular hardware will not work yet.

And many more cases where hardware only works with seriously reduced
capability.

But that
is true for Windoze as well and we've all seen it and know that there
are system requirements that must be met.

Yep. Wouldn't want to install XP on a PII, not so much because it
wouldn't install, but because it be more interesting to watch molasses
run on a cold day.

The difference in the
methologies between Linux and Windows, is that in the former people
are working hard to get free solutions for the computer community in
general rather than forcing one to pay money for a solution.

How does that help any average computer user run Linux?

From my experience, I'd say that 95% of the participants in this
newsgroup could install Linux on their PCs without any difficulty
whatsoever.

And I'd say that about 95% of those would have to make some trade off on
reduced funtionability.

They'll then have an OS that works, is not prone to
viruses and malware, doesn't require constant effort to keep running
and is a much more productive and pleasant computer experience than
running Windows. They'll then have access (just a few clicks away) to
a vaste storehouse of free quality software. If saying this makes me
a "zealot", then I guess I am one. Linux has proven to me to be very
much superior to Windows in all respects and I am convinced that
anyone using it, wouldn't be plagued with all the problems we see
constantly reported in this newsgroup.

I am not plaqued by all of the problems we constantly see in this
newsgroup.

IMHO, as long as people like you spread the FUD, you cost end-users
money!

How? I never advocate anyone upgrade unless they are buying a new PC.

As long as they stick with Windows, they are forced into
spending money on commercial applications because the crap bundled
with Windows is so lame.

Many already have the tools that they need, and then there are also some
good freeware alternatives for Windows too. Some of it is even software
from the Open Source community.

Because of everything like the "free"
Notepad, to CD/DVD burning software, users who want more in the
Windows world have to cough up more cash.

Lies! OO is a good freeware word processer. And if you are talking
about text-based only editors there are plenty of them.

And there are freeware alternatives for CD/DVD burning too.

This just isn't the case

For windows users

for Linux users and that is somewhat hard for inexperienced Windows
computer users to understand. Your FUD helps to perpetuate the myths
that serve Micro$soft's commercial interests not the end-users'
interests.

LOL! How? I don't advocate upgrading Windows.

I really think you need to find a more appropriate domain name for
your website. One that doesn't pretend to be anti-Microsoft, while
you continue to spread the M$ FUD. If nothing else this will lend
some credibility to yourself.

LOL! Since you need to distort reality to try to persuade people that
Linux is ready for the average user, I'm glad I'm not credible in your
eyes.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.com/mscommunity
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"

 

[Leythos]

I think you may misunderstand the legal terms "guilty" and "crime".
Forget, for a moment, the issue of the insanity plea.

Say, for instance, your 5 year old was disciplined by her mother and
she was very angry about it. She got into her dad's gun case and shot
her mother dead.

The facts of the case are simple and clear- the 5 year old caused the
death of her mother.

The first legal question is whither or not a crime has been committed.
A crime, in the legal sense, can only be committed by an individual
who can reasonably be expected to understand the consequences of their
actions.

If a 5y/o knows enough to get a gun because she's mad, she knows what
the gun can do, so, like it or not, she knows what she's doing.

No competent DA in the country would, in this case, attempt to
convince a jury that a 5 year old girl fully understood the
consequences of her actions when she pulled the trigger on her dad's
357 magnum and blew the top of her mother's head off because her
mother would not let her go out and play until she ate all her peas.

That's because people don't like to convict kids, even ones that clearly
know what they are doing when they do it. In your example, the kid
should fry as she was fully aware that she was going to injure another
person and with malice and intent.

The DA would quickly conclude that no crime was committed in the first
place because we are not dealing with a responsible person by anyone's
definition legal or otherwise.

Only if he was a liberal do gooder with no sense of honor.

So the verdict "innocent by reason of insanity" makes perfect sense.
Both a five year old and a deeply disturbed psychotic are truly
innocent of committing a crime because they may both be equally
incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. That is
they are legally not capable of committing a crime in the first place.

With very few exceptions (and your 5y/o is not one) most everyone knows
they are doing wrong when doing it - even a psychotic at some level can
understand hate/wrong and be responsible for it.

On the other hand a verdict of "guilty by reason of insanity" is a
contradiction in terms. A person is either guilty (fully responsible
and competent and thus held responsible for their actions) or insane
(not responsible thus not capable of a criminal act in the first
place) but not both at the same time.

GBRI means they were responsible, take responsibility, and deserve
treatment and prison time.

As far as the law is concerned, in general, neither a 5 year old, nor
a psychotic nor a rabid mad dog commits crimes only a competent moral
agent can do that.

Wrong.

 

[kony]

You are wrong, it's on the box, not all of it is there, but the part
that tells you there are licensing requirements and additional
information about the licensing.

That isn't the license. Big difference.

Just because you can't read the entire license where you purchase the
product doesn't make any difference - the information is available on
the web, via mail, through retailers chains, etc.... If you don't read
it, it's a personal choice.

It does matter. Pretend it doesn't if you like but
unfortunately you opinion alone isn't a standard for
anything.

 

[Leythos]

He was able to install it and use a word processor. I doubt my mother
could have done that. She would know how to set of up the BIOS to boot
for CD. As a matter of fact, she has never been in the BIOS.

Kurt,

Most computers come with boot-from-cd set to the first boot device and
then the floppy and then the hard drive.

If your mom's computer is older or if you set it up without a CD as the
first boot device, they are are right, she won't be able to do it.

In my case, I tested many different vendors products on P3 single CPU
systems, P3 Dual CPU systems, a P4 non-HT system and a P4 HT/CPU system
and then a dual Xeon (P4 era) system. All distro's where tested with
those systems and notes taken.

While Mandrake 10 was a very nice install, there were problems with
video on most of them. SUSE and some other version were a mess when I
tried to use the GUI (as I'm not a nix guy) to manage the systems.
RedHat, being one of the best (in my past experience) was tested with
Fedora Core 3 and it included Open Office, Evolution (that let me
directly use my Exchange servers in native mode), and I setup Cross-Over
with Windows Office XP Prof and was able to use Excel, Word, and Power
point without any problems.

I think that Linux is as ready was Windows 95 was in those days, and FC3
is as close as 98/2000.

 

[Leythos]

Hi Michael,

Aren't YOU glad you asked a question!
So far 260+ 'opinions' and counting.....
But I get the feeling the jury is still out.....
Don't you just looooove newsnet.....

Actually, I was able to explain the reason for the re-activation and he
ack'd it.

 

[Curious George]

When MS decided
to no longer support 95, or 98 or 2000 and eventually XP, to continue to
have a secure system you're either going to upgrade to what MS gives you OR
you're going to look for an alternative. It's as simple as that. And as
long as you continue on the MS upgrade path, you're marching to MS's drum
beat because if you're going to use their software, you have no other
option. So cut the crap about what an independent individual you are. You
have no independence with your computer as long as you're forced to take

Silly me. I always though a computer was a tool with a limited
useable life & upgradeability (like most other kinds of machines &
tools). I see now I am not an individual unless I'm running a 10 year
old computer and I am inadequate if not running a 10 year old computer
with the latest software.

 

[Curious George]

When MS decided
to no longer support 95, or 98 or 2000 and eventually XP, to continue to
have a secure system you're either going to upgrade to what MS gives you OR
you're going to look for an alternative. It's as simple as that. And as
long as you continue on the MS upgrade path, you're marching to MS's drum
beat because if you're going to use their software, you have no other
option. So cut the crap about what an independent individual you are. You
have no independence with your computer as long as you're forced to take

Silly me. I always though a computer was a tool with a limited
useable life & upgradeability (like most other kinds of machines &
tools). I see now I am not an individual unless I'm running a 10 year
old computer and I am inadequate if not running a 10 year old computer
with the latest software.

 

[NoStop]

Silly me. I always though a computer was a tool with a limited
useable life & upgradeability (like most other kinds of machines &
tools). I see now I am not an individual unless I'm running a 10 year
old computer and I am inadequate if not running a 10 year old computer
with the latest software.

You're obviously missing my point, so I'll restate it. I think we have
enough of a throw-away society. As long as a tool, in this case a computer,
can do a job, why shouldn't it be, at the very least, passed on to someone
who can use it? A Windoze 98 vintage computer is quite good enough for
reading email or doing word processing. BUT, if one is stuck in the
marketing world of Microsoft, then that corporation makes sure the hardware
becomes obsolete before its time. If M$ decides to stop providing security
patches for Win98 and the computer doesn't have the hardware to run the
"latest and greatest" OS from M$, the computer has been made obsolete, just
so M$ can continue raking in its obscene profits.

Understand now?

--

ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°øø¤º°`°ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°ø
Windows is *NOT* a virus. Viruses are small and efficient.
Legal Notice And Disclaimer:
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