A
Alias
John said:
Another good reason to wait until at least SP2 for Vista, although
following the possibility you suggest unfold should be interesting ...
Alias
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Another good reason to wait until at least SP2 for Vista, although
following the possibility you suggest unfold should be interesting ...
Alias
C
Colin Barnhorst
Carey Frisch reported her understanding was that the running OS had to also
be activated.
Now everyone interested in this subject is asking MS to clarify. Some who
seemed to know are hedging about "confusing language" on some of the
websites.
We do need to know for sure, though. It is time for many to plan and
budget.
I have no intention of ever using anything but full editions anyway so I
don't personally care what the Upgrade editions can or can't do. But as an
MVP naturally I want to give the right answers to folks needing advice and
help and for that reason I want to see this clarified pronto.
be activated.
Now everyone interested in this subject is asking MS to clarify. Some who
seemed to know are hedging about "confusing language" on some of the
websites.
We do need to know for sure, though. It is time for many to plan and
budget.
I have no intention of ever using anything but full editions anyway so I
don't personally care what the Upgrade editions can or can't do. But as an
MVP naturally I want to give the right answers to folks needing advice and
help and for that reason I want to see this clarified pronto.
G
Guest
I suppose if I upgrade Vista Ultimate I will not have access to the repair
diagnotics on the DVD. However, I am using a prgram called Acronic True
backup. I have a Virgin copy of XP Pro burnt on disc, and activated. I will
upgrade to Vista and burn a backup to disc the minute it is activated.
Acronis is a self booting disc. It can restore the partition from that point
outside of Windows. So, I guess I just need to do regular backups. My only
concern is, if I experiance hard drive failure, and replace the hard drive,
would Vista see it as a 'hardware change'? Or, if I replaced the HD with a
duplicate model, would it know? or care?
diagnotics on the DVD. However, I am using a prgram called Acronic True
backup. I have a Virgin copy of XP Pro burnt on disc, and activated. I will
upgrade to Vista and burn a backup to disc the minute it is activated.
Acronis is a self booting disc. It can restore the partition from that point
outside of Windows. So, I guess I just need to do regular backups. My only
concern is, if I experiance hard drive failure, and replace the hard drive,
would Vista see it as a 'hardware change'? Or, if I replaced the HD with a
duplicate model, would it know? or care?
J
John Barnes
This is a good example of why Microsoft should have all versions tested by
at least the heavy duty outside testers like yourself. At least that way if
they have made an error in judgment, like they did with the EULA, you could
help get the screaming started.
MVP or not, we all want to give accurate advice based on knowledge and not
2nd and 3rd party hearsay.
at least the heavy duty outside testers like yourself. At least that way if
they have made an error in judgment, like they did with the EULA, you could
help get the screaming started.
MVP or not, we all want to give accurate advice based on knowledge and not
2nd and 3rd party hearsay.
J
John Barnes
" My only
There was an article on Z-net that gave the new Vista algorithm and if I
recall correctly the serial number of the hard drive was included. Only
effect would be if you exceeded the change point total and then you would
only have to activate. Isn't that automatic anyway, unless or course the
web fails and you have to do a telephone activation.
concern is, if I experiance hard drive failure, and replace the hard
drive,
would Vista see it as a 'hardware change'? Or, if I replaced the HD with
a
duplicate model, would it know? or care?
There was an article on Z-net that gave the new Vista algorithm and if I
recall correctly the serial number of the hard drive was included. Only
effect would be if you exceeded the change point total and then you would
only have to activate. Isn't that automatic anyway, unless or course the
web fails and you have to do a telephone activation.
C
Colin Barnhorst
I have to confess that I have brought this topic up a couple of times here
over the past few months (and in the TechBeta ng's) but not with sufficient
force to really get a discussion going. Always the response has been that
folks thought I didn't know how to use the Upgrade option in the beta
editions and failed to understand that I was looking further ahead to the
Upgrade Editions. This time I decided to jump up and down and pose lots of
questions until folks began to realize that there have always been two sets
of editions, full and upgrade, and start worrying about the Upgrade
editions. I sure hope Gortner jumps back in with some solid info and some
url's for backup.
over the past few months (and in the TechBeta ng's) but not with sufficient
force to really get a discussion going. Always the response has been that
folks thought I didn't know how to use the Upgrade option in the beta
editions and failed to understand that I was looking further ahead to the
Upgrade Editions. This time I decided to jump up and down and pose lots of
questions until folks began to realize that there have always been two sets
of editions, full and upgrade, and start worrying about the Upgrade
editions. I sure hope Gortner jumps back in with some solid info and some
url's for backup.
C
Colin Barnhorst
However, the hard drive id is given a lot more weight in the Vista
hardwarehash than it was in XP. In XP the NIC is given an unusually large
weight.
hardwarehash than it was in XP. In XP the NIC is given an unusually large
weight.
G
Guest
Wow! I have been reading multiple threads going round about the Upgrade
option and Vista. Hats off To Colin Barnhorst, who has been relentlessly
pursing the truth.
And I am just as mixed up and confused as ever. Apparently, if I upgrade (
and I know it must be done within XP) I will not have access to any bootup
repair programs on the disk, hence, it is a NON-bootable disk. However, I
have 2 questions I need clarification on. 1. I can choose a clean install,
right? Not just an upgrade. I do not want Just an upgrade.
2. If I use a 3rd party program, such as acronis true backup, this image
will restore? Microsoft hasn't jury rigged back up images I hope? IF anyone
can answer these questions, bless you!
option and Vista. Hats off To Colin Barnhorst, who has been relentlessly
pursing the truth.
And I am just as mixed up and confused as ever. Apparently, if I upgrade (
and I know it must be done within XP) I will not have access to any bootup
repair programs on the disk, hence, it is a NON-bootable disk. However, I
have 2 questions I need clarification on. 1. I can choose a clean install,
right? Not just an upgrade. I do not want Just an upgrade.
2. If I use a 3rd party program, such as acronis true backup, this image
will restore? Microsoft hasn't jury rigged back up images I hope? IF anyone
can answer these questions, bless you!
W
William
The cost difference between the full and upgrade editions is an important
factor in the decision making of many people.
factor in the decision making of many people.
J
John Barnes
I'll take a shot at 1. Darrell Gorter said in a reply to a question I
posited that you can do a clean install to another volume (read partition).
As to number 2, if you keep your system the same, it probably will work.
Remember the way drives are enumerated if the drive letter changes and your
registry has the original letters in its shortcuts etc, well !!!!!
posited that you can do a clean install to another volume (read partition).
As to number 2, if you keep your system the same, it probably will work.
Remember the way drives are enumerated if the drive letter changes and your
registry has the original letters in its shortcuts etc, well !!!!!
W
William
By 'clean install' do you mean deleting the partitions on the hard drive and
then re-creating them and formatting them anew? Or at least reformatting the
partitions on the hard drive so that there is nothing left of the old OS?
then re-creating them and formatting them anew? Or at least reformatting the
partitions on the hard drive so that there is nothing left of the old OS?
C
Colin Barnhorst
Of course, but in the past you at least got a copy of Windows identical in
every respect to the full edition except for the verification of eligibility
for upgrade pricing step. Otherwise there was no difference in the bits.
If the changes in the Upgrade editions for Vista are as we are discussing
that will no longer be the case.
every respect to the full edition except for the verification of eligibility
for upgrade pricing step. Otherwise there was no difference in the bits.
If the changes in the Upgrade editions for Vista are as we are discussing
that will no longer be the case.
G
Guest
I think you will need windows xp to upgrade.
Jon Acord said:NOW I am totallly confused! Help! Here is my scenario: I upgraded my
Windows 98 SE with an UPGRADE disk to Windows XP professional...IF I buy
the
Vista Ultimate UPGRADE disk I can therefore upgrade...?
D
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
Hello Colin,
The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs to
be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com>
<References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<Subject: Re: windows Vista can you do a clean install with an upgrade disk?
<Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:36:37 -0700
<Lines: 42
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<I am starting to hear that it is completely new. I have been asking for
<months about the Upgrade Editions' capabilities without getting answers
and
<now that some are showing up I am feeling somewhat disturbed.
<
<My impression from following some of the threads here is that the Upgrade
<Edition is not a bootable dvd and only upgrades a running legacy Windows.
<
<If true, installing Vista is not the only issue. You have to boot the
Vista
<dvd to use some of the repair tools for a unoperable Vista installation
and
<you have to boot the Vista dvd to restore a CompletePC Backup image to an
<unoperable system. You also would not be able to replace a Vista system
<hard drive without having to reinstall the legacy Windows and then rerun
the
<Upgrade Edition. The tools for reconfiguring hard drives are also only
<available if you boot the dvd to install Vista. I'm sure there are many
<more scenarios.
<
<You may not be able to use legacy Windows cd's to qualify for Vista
Upgrade
<Edition pricing. I cannot image how this decision, if true, evolved at MS
<but I sure hope I am totally wrong. I really do.
<
<<> This would be completely new, since since Win95 to WinXP Pro, I have
<> ALWAYS used an upgrade disk to
<> qualify for an upgrade.
<>
<>
<>
<> | However, keep in mind that if your XP Home disk was an Upgrade disk,
<> | you will HAVE to have on-hand another full license of XP Home, or
<> | purchase a cheap Generic Full OEM copy of XP (home or pro) and upgrade
<> | THAT to Vista Ultimate, or purchase a Full Retail license of Vista
<> | Ultimate. You can't, after all, use an upgrade license to upgrade an
<> | upgrade license.
<> |
<> | Either way, if you DON'T have a full license of XP (Home or Pro), you
<> | will HAVE to buy a FULL License of Vista Ultimate, if Ultimate is the
<> | version you have your heart set on.
<>
<>
<
<
<
The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs to
be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com>
<References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<Subject: Re: windows Vista can you do a clean install with an upgrade disk?
<Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:36:37 -0700
<Lines: 42
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<
<I am starting to hear that it is completely new. I have been asking for
<months about the Upgrade Editions' capabilities without getting answers
and
<now that some are showing up I am feeling somewhat disturbed.
<
<My impression from following some of the threads here is that the Upgrade
<Edition is not a bootable dvd and only upgrades a running legacy Windows.
<
<If true, installing Vista is not the only issue. You have to boot the
Vista
<dvd to use some of the repair tools for a unoperable Vista installation
and
<you have to boot the Vista dvd to restore a CompletePC Backup image to an
<unoperable system. You also would not be able to replace a Vista system
<hard drive without having to reinstall the legacy Windows and then rerun
the
<Upgrade Edition. The tools for reconfiguring hard drives are also only
<available if you boot the dvd to install Vista. I'm sure there are many
<more scenarios.
<
<You may not be able to use legacy Windows cd's to qualify for Vista
Upgrade
<Edition pricing. I cannot image how this decision, if true, evolved at MS
<but I sure hope I am totally wrong. I really do.
<
<<> This would be completely new, since since Win95 to WinXP Pro, I have
<> ALWAYS used an upgrade disk to
<> qualify for an upgrade.
<>
<>
<>
<> | However, keep in mind that if your XP Home disk was an Upgrade disk,
<> | you will HAVE to have on-hand another full license of XP Home, or
<> | purchase a cheap Generic Full OEM copy of XP (home or pro) and upgrade
<> | THAT to Vista Ultimate, or purchase a Full Retail license of Vista
<> | Ultimate. You can't, after all, use an upgrade license to upgrade an
<> | upgrade license.
<> |
<> | Either way, if you DON'T have a full license of XP (Home or Pro), you
<> | will HAVE to buy a FULL License of Vista Ultimate, if Ultimate is the
<> | version you have your heart set on.
<>
<>
<
<
<
C
Colin Barnhorst
I'm glad you are back and clarifying. I am not assuming that just because
the retail UE dvd's can boot the system that an upgrade Setup can be started
that way. How can Setup be started? Is it only from the desktop? Can you
still do a Custom installation with a UE sku?
the retail UE dvd's can boot the system that an upgrade Setup can be started
that way. How can Setup be started? Is it only from the desktop? Can you
still do a Custom installation with a UE sku?
"Darrell Gorter[MSFT]" said:Hello Colin,
The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs
to
be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
<From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com>
<References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
<Subject: Re: windows Vista can you do a clean install with an upgrade
disk?
<Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:36:37 -0700
<Lines: 42
<X-Priority: 3
<X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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<Xref: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:63488
<X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
<
<I am starting to hear that it is completely new. I have been asking for
<months about the Upgrade Editions' capabilities without getting answers
and
<now that some are showing up I am feeling somewhat disturbed.
<
<My impression from following some of the threads here is that the Upgrade
<Edition is not a bootable dvd and only upgrades a running legacy Windows.
<
<If true, installing Vista is not the only issue. You have to boot the
Vista
<dvd to use some of the repair tools for a unoperable Vista installation
and
<you have to boot the Vista dvd to restore a CompletePC Backup image to an
<unoperable system. You also would not be able to replace a Vista system
<hard drive without having to reinstall the legacy Windows and then rerun
the
<Upgrade Edition. The tools for reconfiguring hard drives are also only
<available if you boot the dvd to install Vista. I'm sure there are many
<more scenarios.
<
<You may not be able to use legacy Windows cd's to qualify for Vista
Upgrade
<Edition pricing. I cannot image how this decision, if true, evolved at
MS
<but I sure hope I am totally wrong. I really do.
<
<<> This would be completely new, since since Win95 to WinXP Pro, I have
<> ALWAYS used an upgrade disk to
<> qualify for an upgrade.
<>
<>
<>
<> | However, keep in mind that if your XP Home disk was an Upgrade disk,
<> | you will HAVE to have on-hand another full license of XP Home, or
<> | purchase a cheap Generic Full OEM copy of XP (home or pro) and
upgrade
<> | THAT to Vista Ultimate, or purchase a Full Retail license of Vista
<> | Ultimate. You can't, after all, use an upgrade license to upgrade an
<> | upgrade license.
<> |
<> | Either way, if you DON'T have a full license of XP (Home or Pro), you
<> | will HAVE to buy a FULL License of Vista Ultimate, if Ultimate is the
<> | version you have your heart set on.
<>
<>
<
<
<
C
Carey Frisch [MVP]
Hi Darrell -
When one inserts the Windows Vista-RTM DVD in the DVD drive,
the Windows Vista setup menu appears. When you click on
"What to know before installing Windows", there is a paragraph
that states: "You cannot start, or 'boot', your computer from the
Windows Vista upgrade disc".
Now you are saying "The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable".
Please clarify which statement is correct.
--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
| Hello Colin,
| The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs to
| be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
| The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
| Thanks,
| Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|
| This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
When one inserts the Windows Vista-RTM DVD in the DVD drive,
the Windows Vista setup menu appears. When you click on
"What to know before installing Windows", there is a paragraph
that states: "You cannot start, or 'boot', your computer from the
Windows Vista upgrade disc".
Now you are saying "The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable".
Please clarify which statement is correct.
--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:
| Hello Colin,
| The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs to
| be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
| The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
| Thanks,
| Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|
| This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
D
David Wilkinson
Darrell said:Hello Colin,
The retail upgrade DVD will be bootable. You are correct, the dvd needs to
be bootable to be able to run anyor repair functionality.
The volume license upgrade dvd will not be bootable.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
Darrell:
I don't want to sound too critical, but do you have any idea the level
of consternation generated by your previous statement about
non-bootability of the upgrade disk?
Actually, I (and nobody else I think) noticed that your original
statement was made in a thread that was about volume licenses, and I
asked you specifically if the non-bootablity was limited to this case.
But you did not reply.
Since then, there have been dozens of frantic postings pointing out that
if an upgrade disk is not bootable, then it becomes at best inconvenient
and at worst completely worthless.
Naturally, we are all delighted to have input from Microsoft employees
like you who really know what is going on, but I feel it essential that
(a) Such input is carefully screened for accuracy and completeness
(b) The poster sticks around long enough to see if the information has
been misinterpreted.
I still don't think we have a full description of how the Vista retail
upgrade disk will work (both for initial installation and
reinstallation), and I think this group really needs one.
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
A
Alfred Kaufmann
David Wilkinson said:I still don't think we have a full description of how the Vista retail
upgrade disk will work (both for initial installation and reinstallation),
and I think this group really needs one.
David Wilkinson
Visual C++ MVP
I hope we get an answer, I format my drive c: once or twice a year and I
certainly don't want to have to re-install Windows XP Pro in order to do the
Vista upgrade. Another question to answer, will those redeeming the vista
upgrade coupon get this retail upgrade or something else?
Al
C
Colin Barnhorst
If my experience with the transition from ME to XP in 2001 is any guide, the
major players will probably provide a customized Upgrade dvd designed
specifically to operate on the system you purchased. Ask before you buy.
I bought a laptop just before XP launch and I was deeply under-thrilled with
the upgrade package I got for my Compaq coupon taking my laptop from ME to
XP Home. I had a setup issue and had to restore ME all over again to get
back to XP Home. Then I concluded that ANY upgrade from ME to anything
would be problematical, so I wound up buying XP Pro full edition and
starting fresh. I had some interesting conversations with Compaq over
drivers for some of their proprietary hardware but I got through it all.
major players will probably provide a customized Upgrade dvd designed
specifically to operate on the system you purchased. Ask before you buy.
I bought a laptop just before XP launch and I was deeply under-thrilled with
the upgrade package I got for my Compaq coupon taking my laptop from ME to
XP Home. I had a setup issue and had to restore ME all over again to get
back to XP Home. Then I concluded that ANY upgrade from ME to anything
would be problematical, so I wound up buying XP Pro full edition and
starting fresh. I had some interesting conversations with Compaq over
drivers for some of their proprietary hardware but I got through it all.
D
Daze N. Knights
My bet is that you will need to reinstall XP in order to reinstall
Vista, although there *is* a way to avoid this: Once you've done it the
first time, image the system partition for future reinstallations.
Supposedly the backup app included in Vista is good for doing this (if
not good for much of anything else).
Alfred Kaufmann wrote:
I format my drive c: once or twice a year and I
Vista, although there *is* a way to avoid this: Once you've done it the
first time, image the system partition for future reinstallations.
Supposedly the backup app included in Vista is good for doing this (if
not good for much of anything else).
Alfred Kaufmann wrote:
I format my drive c: once or twice a year and I
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