windows Vista can you do a clean install with an upgrade disk?

[Donald L McDaniel]

Unlike the "Full Version" of Windows Vista, the "Upgrade Version"
disc is non-bootable. You'll have to begin the upgrade or clean install
process at the desktop of Windows XP. In other words, you must
have a genuine version of Windows XP installed and properly activated
before beginning an upgrade or clean install if using a Vista upgrade disc.

That's certainly bad news.

I guess we will not be able to install Vista "clean" using the Upgrade
DVD.

Or will we?

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------

 

[Jeff Gaines]

I guess we will not be able to install Vista "clean" using the Upgrade
DVD.

Or will we?

If the u/g DVD is not bootable how do we get to the recovery console (if
there is one) or system restore?

 

[DCR]

This would be completely new, since since Win95 to WinXP Pro, I have ALWAYS used an upgrade disk to
qualify for an upgrade.



| However, keep in mind that if your XP Home disk was an Upgrade disk,
| you will HAVE to have on-hand another full license of XP Home, or
| purchase a cheap Generic Full OEM copy of XP (home or pro) and upgrade
| THAT to Vista Ultimate, or purchase a Full Retail license of Vista
| Ultimate. You can't, after all, use an upgrade license to upgrade an
| upgrade license.
|
| Either way, if you DON'T have a full license of XP (Home or Pro), you
| will HAVE to buy a FULL License of Vista Ultimate, if Ultimate is the
| version you have your heart set on.

 

[Ed.]

Actually, Jon, there is no such thing as a "Vista Ultimate Edition
DVD", since ALL Vista DVDs contain ALL versions of the OS, including
Home, Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate.

Depending on the license you purchase, the correct version of Vista
will be installed from the same DVD. The way the installer will be
able to tell which version to install will be by the DVD key you
receive when you purchase your license. DONT LOSE THAT KEY!!!

I'm pretty sure that if you purchase an upgrade license to Vista
Ultimate, you will have no trouble upgrading XP Home to Vista
Ultimate, since that is a valid upgrade path for Vista Ultimate.
However, it's also possible that you will have to do a "clean"
install. Can't remember right this minute the link to the Vista
Upgrade paths.

Just found Paul Thurrott's site about the Vista Upgrade paths:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade.asp

However, keep in mind that if your XP Home disk was an Upgrade disk,
you will HAVE to have on-hand another full license of XP Home, or
purchase a cheap Generic Full OEM copy of XP (home or pro) and upgrade
THAT to Vista Ultimate, or purchase a Full Retail license of Vista
Ultimate. You can't, after all, use an upgrade license to upgrade an
upgrade license.

Either way, if you DON'T have a full license of XP (Home or Pro), you
will HAVE to buy a FULL License of Vista Ultimate, if Ultimate is the
version you have your heart set on.

It seems to me, though, that most home users aren't going to need
Vista Ultimate. I advise home users to purchase Vista Home Premium,
unless they really need advanced networking. Of course, if you're a
hobbyist or Windows enthusiast, you might want Vista Ultimate just for
the "bragging rights".

Check out the differences between the four versions before making a
purchasing decision. Microsoft has really done a fine job of
designing each edition for the right demographic this time around.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/default.mspx

After perusing this, I am persuaded that most home users and families
will agree with me that the best value for their money will be Vista
Home Premium (Upgrade or Full). It has the best user features of
Ultimate Edition, including the advanced Aero GUI, as well as Media
Center , without the advanced networking and business features of
Business Edition or Ultimate.

And Vista Home Premium (Retail Upgrade) will have almost the same
price as the older Generic OEM copies of XP Pro w/SP2 (~$129-$159),
with the added advantage of owning a Retail version, which allows the
licensee to transfer his license to other machines, should he need to
(not possible according to the OEM license).

I really commend Microsoft for making the price of its XP Home Premium
Retail Upgrade so reasonable.

One thing I DON'T like is the lack of the ability to use Home Premium
in a Virtual setting.

Consider: I own an Intel iMac, as well as a license to Parallels
Desktop for Mac. This product is probably the most convenient way to
use both OS X and Windows on the same machine. With XP, I was able to
do this. But the Home Premium license does not allow this, even
though my copy of Vista would be on a SINGLE machine, not two. This
is in my opinion not fair to the user.

It is especially not fair to the owners of Apple Intels. If Microsoft
were trying to keep Windows users from running Windows on Apple
Intels, this would be the most logical way to go about it. I am not
accusing them of doing this, but it really seems suspicious to me,
especially in light of Microsoft's past statements that they would not
attempt to keep folks from running Windows on Apple Intels.

They are in effect, putting a TAX on running Windows on an Apple Intel
PC -- one must purchase the most EXPENSIVE edition of Vista to do this
using the Apple Intels' hardware virtualization abilities.

While they ARE keeping to the LETTTER of their statement that they
would not attempt to keep users from running Windows on their Apple
Intels PCs (since it IS still possible to dual-boot between OS X and
Vista using Apple's Boot Camp Assistant Beta software), I don't
believe they are keeping to the SPIRIT of their words. For many
people, using the dual-booting option makes it more difficult to do
cross-platform work, thus putting a chilling effect on the use of
Windows on Apple Intel PCs.

The fact is, hardware virtualization software such as Parallels
Desktop for Mac is the BEST solution for many Apple users. I know
that most Mac users I've spoken with agree on this, and prefer not to
dual-boot with Windows.

Why wouldn't Microsoft WANT to have their OS being shown on the same
display alongside OS X?

It seems to me, that if they have faith in their OS being the BEST,
they would WANT OS X users to SEE how much better Vista is than OS X,
by allowing them to easily run the two OSes alongside each other on
the same display (or dual-displays).

Just my opinion.

Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread and newsgroup
---------------------------------------------------

Does the Home Premium have Speech Recognition ??

Thanks,
Ed.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

I am starting to hear that it is completely new. I have been asking for
months about the Upgrade Editions' capabilities without getting answers and
now that some are showing up I am feeling somewhat disturbed.

My impression from following some of the threads here is that the Upgrade
Edition is not a bootable dvd and only upgrades a running legacy Windows.

If true, installing Vista is not the only issue. You have to boot the Vista
dvd to use some of the repair tools for a unoperable Vista installation and
you have to boot the Vista dvd to restore a CompletePC Backup image to an
unoperable system. You also would not be able to replace a Vista system
hard drive without having to reinstall the legacy Windows and then rerun the
Upgrade Edition. The tools for reconfiguring hard drives are also only
available if you boot the dvd to install Vista. I'm sure there are many
more scenarios.

You may not be able to use legacy Windows cd's to qualify for Vista Upgrade
Edition pricing. I cannot image how this decision, if true, evolved at MS
but I sure hope I am totally wrong. I really do.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That' not all. How about using the repair tools on the Vista dvd for fixing
unoperable systems? Don't you have to boot the computer with the Vista dvd
to access those? And how about restoring a CompletePC Backup image to an
inoperable system? That too requires booting with the Vista dvd. And how
about replacing a faulty system hard drive?

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Exactly. The problem of repairing inoperable systems would be just about
impossible. Not only System Restore but also CompletePC Backup. The WinRE
tools you refer to are just one of the problems.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Added note: What happens to a person who got his XP preinstalled and the
recovery software is only in a hidden partition? After he upgrades to Vista
using an Upgrade Edition suppose the hard drive fails and he wants to
reinstall his Vista Upgrade Edition software?

I hope there are reasonable provisions for all of these scenarios to replace
the traditional methods you and I have used for years.

 

[William]

I think if the limitations that you describe are true that would constitute
something to consider in purchasing Vista.

I think it is extremely inconvenient that, in the extreme case, I would have
to install a legacy Windows OS and then upgrade it to Vista, which nullifies
all the wonderful work at getting Vista to install quite fast.

Also, if the original upgrade to Vista nullifies the EULA of the original XP
install, then would it be a violation of the EULA to re-use that legacy OS
and install it, even if to serve for Vista 'canon fodder'?

Perhaps it is better to not purchase the upgrade version of Vista and wait
for when the time comes to replace a PC with Vista already installed and get
the OEM disk with it for that PC.

If the limitations are true, that could be a real deal buster to many
people.

 

[Jane C]

I now suspect that the Upgrade DVD will indeed be bootable, but that the
'Upgrade' option will be disabled. Upgrade will only be available by
starting the install from within XP. Therefore, one would be able to boot
with the DVD for repair/restore etc. Doesn't make much sense otherwise.
Now all that's left to figure out is exactly how one upgrades from a
qualifying OS that requires a clean install, ie from XP x64 to Vista x64.
Fine if you have a spare partition set up, or another hard drive for going
the Custom Install route. But if not...????

I could be wrong......

 

[Roy Coorne]

William schrieb:
....

Also, if the original upgrade to Vista nullifies the EULA of the
original XP install, then would it be a violation of the EULA to re-use
that legacy OS and install it, even if to serve for Vista 'canon fodder'?

It looks like in case of upgrading XP to Vista you loose the XP
licence - it is merged into the Vista licence...

Perhaps it is better to not purchase the upgrade version of Vista and
wait for when the time comes to replace a PC with Vista already
installed and get the OEM disk with it for that PC.

Yes. Otherwise, in countries like, e.g., Germany there is an option to
buy System Builder versions of Vista which are considerably less
expensive than the full retail box but without telephone service.

If the limitations are true, that could be a real deal buster to many
people.

So it is. Anyway, professionals wait for Service Pack 1 (or even SP2)
before migrating to Vista - if ever;-)

Roy

 

[Guest]

NOW I am totallly confused! Help! Here is my scenario: I upgraded my
Windows 98 SE with an UPGRADE disk to Windows XP professional...IF I buy the
Vista Ultimate UPGRADE disk I can therefore upgrade...?

 

[Guest]

I am still confused! OK, If I used an upgrade disk of Windows Xp
Professional from a full version of Windows 98 SE, can I upgrade my XP
Windows Professional with an Upgrade disk of Vista Ultimate? So, this would
be an upgrade to an upgrade.

 

[Bill]

I now suspect that the Upgrade DVD will indeed be bootable, but that
the 'Upgrade' option will be disabled. Upgrade will only be
available by starting the install from within XP. Therefore, one
would be able to boot with the DVD for repair/restore etc. Doesn't
make much sense otherwise. Now all that's left to figure out is
exactly how one upgrades from a qualifying OS that requires a clean
install, ie from XP x64 to Vista x64. Fine if you have a spare
partition set up, or another hard drive for going the Custom Install
route. But if not...????

That's something I've been concerned about as well - I always do a
clean install of new operating systems, and I often re-install several
times a year due to software testing. According to Microsoft, some
upgrade versions must be clean installed, others upgraded:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upgradeinfo.mspx

Look at the list at the bottom of the page - yellow means you must do
a clean install, and that's not possible if you can't boot the DVD.
Unless the disc is bootable, but can only do a clean install with
certain previous versions on the drive.

Until Microsoft issues a statement on this, it's anyone's guess.

 

[Michael D]

I agree with you Jane, after looking at the rtf document you pointed to
earlier I think the section on upgrading was poorly worded and should have
stated "in order to upgrade an in place OS" Vista must be started from
within that OS, which is exactly what it is and I think has always been. If
you boot from the Vista DVD the option to upgrade is grayed out. So I think
and hope we should not be concerned this issue.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

You can upgrade the running XP installation to Vista Ultimate whether or not
you installed XP from a full edition or Upgrade edition XP cd.

I am hearing that you cannot cold-boot a computer with a Vista Upgrade
Edition dvd. If true, you will never be asked to provide Vista Setup with
your XP cd for verification of eligibility for upgrade pricing as you were
in the past when you started the computer with the XP Upgrade Edition cd and
then inserted your Win9x/ME cd when asked. You won't be asked.

What kind of XP cd, full edition, upgrade edition, or none at all just
doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It no longer matters what kind of XP cd you have or no cd at all. Either XP
is running and you upgrade or you can't use the Upgrade Edition.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Professionals make prudent decisions but "waiting" just because "waiting" is
somebody's common practice they do not do.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Everyone seems to be confusing an upgrade-in-place (upgrading a running OS)
with a Custom installation that is eligible for upgrade pricing (what used
to be called a "clean" install from Upgrade media). Microsoft is just not
writing this stuff clearly at all.

I look for a happy outcome and that those, like Darryl Gortner and Carey
Frisch who I respect very much, got mislead by consfusing wording on the MS
webpages.

I simply do not see how you could be eligible for upgrade pricing in
upgrading from XP Pro x64 and still do a clean install of Vista x64 if the
Upgrade Edition media cannot boot the computer. Yet the upgrade matrix
clearly says just that. I just don't get it.

I hope I was right all along.

 

[John Barnes]

I am assuming that the os has to be activated or what would be the purpose
of this exercise, but what about 'genuine' testing? Is that necessary?
Many of us have had Windows come up strangely with the Your system is not
genuine, or whatever the exact words are, plastered on the system and have
had to go back thru the process again to get rid of the message.